talking to the 'dead'
-
Arnold
I hope you don't mind but I linked your article on a site called 'Crow's Nest', I don't participate much there except to post items in an attempt to invite this crowd to Islam.
Your article is right up their alley with the kind's of things they think about and read.
I got one response already from there that really liked your article and links.
Peace
Dow
-
Peace,
No problem Jahwolf, i'm also interrested in the site, can you give me the link.
Peace bro
-
peace
i think thats the biggest myth of all
That 1 The dead can see you 2 The dead can hear you. Not unless once people die you either become omniscient or you are supplied a tv monitor at paradise
This also connects to 2530
The messenger said, "My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran."
God informed (most likely) Muhammad what happened to his people, and he had no idea ... therefore he makes that comment. In my opinion.
-
Thanx....also for your kind words on it.....PM me your mail and i will send you a bunch of books and articles about these subjects and also about religion if you want...
Peace
-
Allah knows whatever is manifest and whatever is hidden. So you may call on him anytime from anywhere. Allah is the source of all power and movements. So you are to depend on Allah for your existence, sustenance and salvation. It is plain and simple simple monotheism.
Now about calling on other entities. All other entities belong to Allah?s creation. Hence they are subject to nature ordained by Allah.
The simple rule here is follow the rules and means of phenomenon to communicate with other entities. Crying in the fields or in the forests or by heart will not help. You are to establish a real communication channel prior to talking to Muhammad.
The other issue here is the possibility of blind transmission. The same rules are applicable here too. We transmit blind where we have appropriate communication channels that passed the tests of being an operational one in the immediate past.
One may have such channel. If he really has got one, he may talk to Muhammad. I don?t have any such channel to reach Muhammad. Do you have one? If not, abstain from calling on him.
-
Peace JahsWolf
I think we place to much of our focus on the physical, as though that defines self, in mine eyes the physical is an extension of self like say my eyes extending from my face, it is merely then the blinking of an eye; the passing of our body. There is a quote from the Bible that reads "As the tree falls so does it lie." That is, as we lived in life, so will it be in death, for the flesh is as a cloak to the spirit (yet the fabric it is wove in is not seperate from the spirit its self but is from the spirit) and that is how I see all physical things, as a temple for the spirit, be it a rock or tree, it is a vessle for life composed of life. For have you not ever sat with a tree and taken note? So when the physical dies the spirit does not, for it is not dependent on the physical, rather the opposite.
I feel in the quran the word dead is used in not just one light, for example there is the spiritaul death and the phyical death.
I think it is forbidden to talk to the dead, as if we could since they are buried in the ground.
I disagree, and yet I feel the wording of this statement is a lil tricky. For one someone passes the earth plane their body, which is of earth returns to its source, the earth, I feel not that the spirit is of earth though it be in earth. I do not see why we cannot contact someone on a different 'frequency' than earth, in fact all the evidence I have seen so far is contrary to that. For example look at any of the works of Edgar Cayce, Jon C Fox, Jane Roberts, Thomas B Cooke or Alice A Bailey, through studying and pondering these writings I have gained a great deal of insight on areas I would not have had I not been exposed to these writings. These works have helped me grow and I do not see any reason for growth to be forbidden.
In my opinion, what is more important is not the source of the writing (ie with or without a body) but the writing its self.
Those who try and pray or talk to these people, like Mohammad, Jesus, Abraham, or rightous loved ones are they committing shirk?
In my opinion, intention reigns supreme in judging an act. For a rose by any other name still beath a rose, as would God by any other name, for God knows when you are calling to him wether you adress God as God or any other title, for the word God its self is just that, a word.
When you try to contact another entity who is no longer earth bound, ask what is your intention and then you will know whether or not it is shirk.
Godbless,
Khalil -
Peace arnoldyasin
God says in the Quran that there is a barriere between the living and the ones who past on. See 3522, the importants of this verse is that it refers to that the people who are in the grave cannot hear.
I do not feel that that verse proves we can not commune with anothers spirit, for look at the proceeding verses as well, such as 3519 where the blind and seer are contrasted, elsewhere in the quran these analogies are used with the deaf and dumb as well, and it can be seen that this is not referring to those who cannot literally see but rather is showing that though one may see the material it is not granted that that same one will see the spiritual, for they are dead to it, lest they resseruct their selves.
So i believe myself it is useless and baseless to believe we can talk to the deceased righteous.
I disagree and there is a great body of evidence out there for any who are willing to search for it. There is a use in contacting a 'spirit' elsewhere just as there is a use in telephoning someone else where, you may learn from both those whom you contacted, thus it is not baseless.
As for the Gospel story, you cannot know for sure it was written down properly, and you cannot compare us with Jesus, a blessed messenger of God, who probably had more access to things then we...
By not comparing our self to Jesus nor any other messenger of God we make their life in vain, for what Jesus did we too may do and greater, the messengers are not idols but ideals to be attained. Have you not read in the bible "None may enter the Father but through the Son." That is you become the Son by walking those footsteps. It is not important whether the story in the bible was written down 'properly' or not, for we are selves can listen to our own inner guidance to gain understanding from it none the less.
Godbless,
Khalil -
Peace,
Khalil, i agree that these verses can mean both spiritualy dead as well to physical death. I don't believe it is just one of the two, i believe it refers to both. I have also read a lot on research about talking with the passed on. But there are a lot things people ignore, read my article and you will see what i mean. But i don't totaly deny we can talk with passed on people. But i'm carefull with making an idea about it. But for now, i stick with my above idea.
-
Peace Arnoldyasin,
I agree with the reasoning that the brain is a reciever, like a radio. Then take that a step further, when the brain/radio is gone the sender of the signal/station still remains, correct?
I think in channeling, the thoughts that the brain will recieve will be those most in tune with the particular person (ie Like attracts like), so a service-to-self consciousness will only be receptive to thoughts on that wave-length/vibration while a service-to-god consciousness will be receptive to thoughts extending up to that wave length/vibration/frequency.
I agree that you can tune into past, present and probable futures but I do not see how this negates the notion that you can recieve the thought patterns from one no longer 'vibrating' in physical density. I feel your understanding of the resseruction is what is not allowing this notion, to me the story of resseruction told in nature is one that occurs constantly; the seasons.
Khalil, i agree that these verses can mean both spiritualy dead as well to physical death. I don't believe it is just one of the two, i believe it refers to both.
I agree, but in physical death all that happens imo is the body is discgarded, or rather the energy is converted into a new substance. The soul does not die with the body, as the experiment you cited with the rats demonstrated, had it being possible for the brains to be removed and restored they would continue to function though stopping when the brain/reciever is removed yet returning when the brain/reciever is returned, that to me shows how the soul remains active independent of the body.
I have two links to share with you. The second one I thought I would share because you mentioned how there is something beyond empty space existant between atoms, and it reminded me of the aether.
Godbless,
KhalilAlthough some would perceive us as a being with a physical form, we would say that the best way to think of us is as an emerald light that is shared throughout this planet. It has no source. It is within you and it is all around you and as it allows itself to connect to others, it is in and of itself fulfilled. We would like to be as available as possible to al individuals. You might wonder how someone can be ina dozen places at once. This is fairly simple when what is transmitted is a thought. A thought takes place in an extremely small fraction of a second, so we are not utilized to nearly our capacity even by the number of Hilarion channels currently in existence on the planet Earth.
- A
The main assumption which needs to be understood before space can be understood is that there is something which defines its position with respect to other higher realities. If this fact can be accepted, then all of the various fields, effects, motions and phenomena observed in the real world will fall into place.
This substance, which defines the space of the real world, is a tenuous material with properties of elasticity. Its basic nature allows it to stretch, to contract, to flow as a current of water does, and to carry Vibrational wave disturbances.
This substance contain the substance in one of its many forms.permeates all of the three-dimensional matrix. There is no location in the physical universe which does not.
In the 19th century men speculated that there was a material of this kind extending through all of space, because they could not see how light could be transmitted if not on a medium of some kind. They named this hypothetical medium the aether, and in this book the same designation will be maintained. In essence the scientists were correct in their assumption, but they did not extend their reasoning far enough to grasp the full significance of this miraculous substance. If they had done so they would have realized finally that all matter of every form is composed of the aether in one of its states of condensation or expansion, and that every phenomenon observed by man in the real world is accounted for by one or more of the properties of the aetheric matrix.
It is the purpose of this chapter to show how the aether is distributed and to discuss some of the properties which allow it to give rise to material manifestation.
Space is not three dimensional only. The space which man conceives is but part of the totality of creation. It exists within a larger space with a greater number of dimensions.
The best analogy that can be made to allow a partial glimpse of the distribution of the aether is that which has been called Flatland.
It is possible to imagine a two-dimensional space similar to a thin film or sheet, having extent in two mutually perpendicular directions but having virtually no extent in the third dimension, which would correspond to the thickness. It can also be conceived that this space would support beings within its surface, who would also be only two dimensional. Such beings could conceive only of objects which in turn were two-dimensional because they would not have any experience of objects with a larger number of dimensions. If we could communicate with a Flatlander, we would not be able to describe, in terms he could appreciate, what a cube or a chair were like. Let us now suppose that we wish to give the Flatlander a complete universe in his two dimensions. We could extend the flat film which defines his space indefinitely in all directions, but this would not be the neatest way to go about it because there would always remain the question of the free edges and what happens beyond these edges. However, the problem can be solved in another way.
The universe of Flatland could be made as the surface of a very large balloon or ball so that space would be of limited area but without a limit in the sense of a free edge. In such a universe the Flatlander could travel as far as he wished in any direction without coming to the edge of his space. But it would not be necessary to provide an infinite amount of the material of his space in order to give him that freedom. The only drawback would be the confusion on his part when, after traveling a certain distance in what he thinks is a straight line, he would end up back where he started from.
Even this difficulty can be minimized by making the balloon of his space so large that he is not likely to be able to complete one circuit around its periphery. Another advantage of giving the spatial balloon a very large diameter is that the local space in the Flatlanders immediate area would be virtually flat and would not exhibit any curvature. This would mean that the geometric relationships in a localized region of the Flatland universe would remain true in the sense of plane geometry.
For example, a triangle set up in the curved Flatland universe would have its three angles sum to almost exactly 1800 , with the difference being too small to detect with the Flatlanders instruments. Of course this would give him the impression that space was not curved, because he could reason that a significant curvature in his space would falsify the triangular relationship.
The skin of the Flatland universe corresponds to the aether of the real universe. The aether is curved upon itself to define a spherical shape as pictured from four dimensions and this hypersphere has an immense diameter, far beyond the possibility of any physical being to travel even a portion of its girth in the normal lifespan.
(The Nature Of Reality; a book of explanations from Hilarion; updated version; Part One The Real World 1 Space; p.1-3)
-
Peace be upon you,
I am also of the "belief" , not knowledge, but belief that our ancestors can communicate with us. I am still investigating.