The "Jinn" Concept - a new insight.
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peace truth,
isn't that too one meaning?
aren't 'jinn' good and bad?I haven't really discussed any specific examples,but as I pointed out every instance of "Jinn" wouldn't be covered by the one meaning I've suggested. I think that the one meaning means all is not valid and the translation of "Jinn" must definitely be contextual as I've tried to point out.
It's obvious to me that it could mean disparate but related things in each instance, mean a 'foreign tribe of people' in another and mean what I've alluded to above in others.
Disguised intent or dissimuation isn't uniformly bad even though I've highlighted the negative aspects. See 2219 which also describes 'al-khamr' which is the act of dissimulation
2219 They question you about the concealment (of one's motive/belief/intent/wealth/position) and the easy life. Say In both is great sin, and utility for men; but the sin of them is greater than their usefulness. And they ask you what they ought to spend. Say that which is superfluous. Thus the God makes plain to you (His) revelations, that you may reflect.
Another verse dealing with the related issue of secrecy
4114 In most of their secret talks there is no good But if one exhorts to a deed of charity or justice or conciliation between men, (Secrecy is permissible) To him who does this, seeking the good pleasure of God, We shall soon give a reward of the highest (value).
When Moses throws his staff its described as moving in a "Jinn" way. Here I believe people are taking 'jannun' to be a noun, whereas it functions as an adjective - so this to me would mean the staff moves "crazily" or "madly" in an unforseeable and unexpected way.
The errors that are made are such that the "Jinn" concept has become stereotyped and defined by the Arabian Nights mythology of "Genie".
Thus "Jinn" is a descriptive term for a person or peoples whose motivations are concealed or unknown. It's true that they may be good or bad, however the salient point is that these are not some mythical beings living in another realm or dimension, but rather that they is us.
Regards.
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Peace truth,
Cool avatar!
Before we get going, please clarify
Are you suggesting your understanding..."Jinn" are those humans who are false, pretentious, and hide their true motivation which is described as "satan's handiwork"...is one explanation among many?Peace,
Tay -
Peace Oben, All,
Here's a list of some attributes of jinn I plucked from the Qur'an
6100, 6128, 3414, 3441 Worshipped as partners of God
726, 4129 Lead men astray
1527 Created before man
1527 Created from fire
1850 Rebelled against God
1850 The species of iblis
5156 Created only to worship God
6112 Deceptive, enemies of every Prophet
1145-6 Whisper into man?s ?chest?
4618 They procreate (generations)
721 They heard the Qur?an, and believe in it, and are God-aloners
728 They touched the sky
729 They hid in the sky, trying to listen in (on ??)
7211 Follow various paths (righteous/unrighteous)
7212 They know they cannot escape God
6130 Received messengers
3213 Along with humans, they will fill jahannam
4125 They form communities
2717 Served in Solomon?s army
2739-40 Can move a mansion at the speed of light -
Peace truth,
Cool avatar!
Before we get going, please clarify
Are you suggesting your understanding..."Jinn" are those humans who are false, pretentious, and hide their true motivation which is described as "satan's handiwork"...is one explanation among many?Peace,
TayPeace Tay,
I believe that "Jinn" are people whose motivations/intentions are hidden, unknown or dissimulated to others. I believe that this is not one explanation amongst many, but rather that this is one exact meaning in particular instances and does not fit every use of the word "Jinn" in the reading; that one must consider context.
The 'problematic' verse 1527 is not actually a contradiction of the meaning I've attempted to explain.
1526 We created the human being from aged mud, like the potter's clay.
1527 As for the jinn, we created it, before that, from blazing fire.Note how I've stripped the "them" aspect of "jinn".
1526 refers in my opinion to the material side of a person; and that the internal hidden element of people - the soul if you will was created before that.
The soul is usually spoken of as "ruh" but notice that this is exclusively as far as I can tell a term used to describe the God's own 'Spirit'.
The reading appears to use the term "nafs" to indicate the self or soul of a human throughout. But is 'nafs' really just the underlying soul that animates us as living beings or is it something other than that we shape and is under our care? Our 'individuality' which is distinct from the underlying hidden soul. See 272 where Moses kills a 'nafs' - clearly he can't kill or annihilate a soul - but he can destroy an individual or an 'ego'.
917 By the Soul, and the proportion and order given to it;
Wanafsin wama sawwaha918 And its enlightenment as to its wrong and its right;
Faalhamaha fujooraha wataqwaha919 Truly he succeeds that purifies it,
Qad aflaha man zakkaha9110 And he fails that corrupts it!
Waqad khaba man dassahaCould the instance in 1527 therefore not be meaning that the "jinn" is the hidden soul element of humans themselves; and again not some separate mythical being? That the hidden internal aspects/ the underlying animator or soul ("fire" of people was created earlier and then clothed in flesh ("clay" to become us?
Regards.
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Peace Oben,
Thanks for the clarification. Honestly, I need to chew on this for a while. The more I stare at that list, the more dumbfounded I become. But your thoughts are definitely intriguing and I find myself looking for more. Until then, please accept this face-value criticism as just that
You mentioned, "Could the instance in 1527 therefore not be meaning that the "jinn" is the hidden soul element of humans themselves; and again not some separate mythical being? That the hidden internal aspects/ the underlying animator or soul ("fire" of people was created earlier and then clothed in flesh ("clay" to become us?"This makes perfect sense in the context of the ayah. What bothers me is the philosphical implication, if you will. If jinn represents the "hidden soul element", I immediately think of the rebellious, deceiving, disbelieving side of the story. This indicates free-will at the "soul-level". Compound this with the free-will of the nafs, and we have 2 decision makers in one body.
Am I understanding you wrong or does this need to be reconciled?
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Oben,
Thanks for the clarification. Honestly, I need to chew on this for a while. The more I stare at that list, the more dumbfounded I become. But your thoughts are definitely intriguing and I find myself looking for more. Until then, please accept this face-value criticism as just that
You mentioned, "Could the instance in 1527 therefore not be meaning that the "jinn" is the hidden soul element of humans themselves; and again not some separate mythical being? That the hidden internal aspects/ the underlying animator or soul ("fire" of people was created earlier and then clothed in flesh ("clay" to become us?"This makes perfect sense in the context of the ayah. What bothers me is the philosphical implication, if you will. If jinn represents the "hidden soul element", I immediately think of the rebellious, deceiving, disbelieving side of the story. This indicates free-will at the "soul-level". Compound this with the free-will of the nafs, and we have 2 decision makers in one body.
Am I understanding you wrong or does this need to be reconciled?
Peace,
TayPeace Tay,
It's no secret that the human is inherently selfish, unappreciative, impatient and rebellious. These are traits that one must work hard to overcome.
If a woman senses oppression or desertion from her husband, the couple shall try to reconcile their differences, for conciliation is best for them. Selfishness is a human trait, and if you do good and lead a righteous life, GOD is fully Cognizant of everything you do.
He created the human from a tiny drop, then he turns into an ardent opponent.
Proclaim, "If you possessed my Lord's treasures of mercy, you would have withheld them, fearing that you might exhaust them. The human being is stingy."
The human being is impatient by nature. I will inevitably show you My signs; do not be in such a hurry.
He is the One who granted you life, then He puts you to death, then He brings you back to life. Surely, the human being is unappreciative.
They even assigned for Him a share from His own creation! Surely, the human being is profoundly unappreciative.
Woe to the human being; he is so unappreciative!
I personally see no problem with a hierarchical inner being structure. Pscyhologists have thought this for years; that there are levels to the mind/soul of conscious and unconscious; of "id", "ego" and "superego" so these are not new or revolutionary ideas. In fact they are mainstream.
I would argue that the "jinn" - soul/hidden inner animator, the "ins" - the material/flesh self, and the "nafs" - the self/individual awareness; are all aspects of us.
There is some material I have read in Scientific American that explored the inner "zombie" that animates or automates us; so much of what we do is not under conscious control after we learn or incorporate it. That inner controller I would argue is the "jinn" in this conceptualisation.
Regards.
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Peace Oben,
I would argue that the "jinn" - soul/hidden inner animator, the "ins" - the material/flesh self, and the "nafs" - the self/individual awareness; are all aspects of us.
This may be where we fail in reaching a point of agreement, not that agreeing should be the goal. In my own capacity, and from my own experience, I understand the "soul" as the direct link to God. It is what it is, and neither evolves nor regresses. It is a constant, the inner compass, the seer of the mind's(nafs) thoughts and actions. In short, we are dual-natured mind(nafs) and soul(ruh), and what we call iblis and jinn and malaikat are all aspects and/or consequences of the free-will of nafs, and they have no impact on ruh.
Nevertheless, this discussion has thrown things out of focus, which I hope is a good thing. I'll need to re-examine this fundamental.
Peace,
Tay -
7210 They call Allah their Lord, not our Lord
Peace Tay
The above is not true man, 7210 is a first person talking (The Jinns) and they were talking about all creatures on earth, The Jinns were saying in 7210 that they don't know if Shar (evil) or Rashda (Guidnace) is intended BY THEIR GOD (Their is refering to all creatures on earth)
Salam
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Peace Tay
Here it is bro, the Jinns are talking "first person" and called Allah "Our God", please note in here they are talking about a subkect related to them, in the verse you posted it was about a subject that is related to all the creatures of earth unless you think the Jinns in 7210 were talking on all earth creatures behalf
Guiding to the right way, so we believe in it, and we will not set up any one with our Lord
(2)
Cheers