Translation of `Jinn`

Tay

Peace Oben, All,

As jm and Ayman expressed, excellent point in 2130. Further, you stated

The fact that ALL (kulli shay) LIVING (hay) things are made of water does not contradict our being made from clay - because it does not say ONLY from clay.

Just an observation clay/soil are understood to contain water/moisture.

Peace,
Tay

unknownuser

Peace Oben,

It seems I got muddled up in understanding your first quote from the next (underlined part). My appologies.

2130 Do the unbelievers not realize that the heaven and the earth used to be one solid mass that we exploded into existence? And from water we made all living things. Would they believe?

If you believe that "jinn" are living things then 2130 means they must be made of water. This is a bald fact. An inescapable reality.

Despite the exchanges above, I wanted to raise this to drive home the point that "jinn" are not mysterious invisible mythical beings.

1527 does not give license to create a new kind of unseen type of being.

The fact that ALL (kulli shay) LIVING (hay) things are made of water does not contradict our being made from clay - because it does not say ONLY from clay.

The point is that all things that LIVE and are MADE are from water - or contain water as part of their makeup.

phoenix1

peace

So Ahmed, what is your understanding of the Jinn?
if I missed one of your posts in this thread I apologize.

lovelymoslems

I disagree about your erroneous conclusion about 'jinn' being able "to exit the atmosphere of Earth".

Look at

376 We have adorned the lowest heaven with adorning planets.*
377 We guarded it from every evil devil.
378 They cannot spy on the High Society; they get bombarded from every side.
379 They have been condemned; they have incurred an eternal retribution.
3710 If any of them ventures to charge the outer limits, he gets struck with a fierce projectile.

and...

5533 O you jinns and humans, if you can penetrate the outer limits of the heavens and the earth, go ahead and penetrate. You cannot penetrate without authorization.
5534 Which of your Lord's marvels can you deny?
5535 You get bombarded with projectiles of fire and metal, and you cannot win.

Notice that jinn and humans are mentioned together. The challenge is to penetrate the heavens - ie. leave the Earth's atmosphere which cannot be done. "Jinn" are human or an aspect of humans and the usages within the reading must be contextual; there doesn't seem to be a one meaning fits all for this particular concept.

Peace.

Yeah if jinn is methaphisic, why should human shall make them enemy ? How to kill and to beat them.

Many bros are trapped with dogmatisn

They think sky is sky
They think satan is jinn.

In every verses Allah did never talk about unseen creatures, but men. The physical of men consist blood, flesh, nerves and bones. But mentally they may be angel, jinn, satan, musyreek, kafir, mu'meen, moslems, mukadzdzibin, ahl dzikr.

unknownuser

Here is a tough one for those ?Hidden? ?Human Leader? meaning of Jinn advocates?

And they have invented a blood-relationship between Him and the Jinns but the Jinns know (quite well) that they have indeed to appear (before his Judgment-Seat)!

(15

-> Let?s summarize the questions for those smart advocates

how the humans invented blood relation between Allah and the Hiddens / the Human leaders ?
how the Hiddens / Human leaders ?know (quite well) that they have indeed to appear (before his Judgment-Seat)??
and finally why the Ins were left out in 37158?

How about another click here mister smart?

Possibly, to be continued?..

truth

Here is a tough one for those Hidden Human Leader meaning of Jinn advocates

And they have invented a blood-relationship between Him and the Jinns but the Jinns know (quite well) that they have indeed to appear (before his Judgment-Seat)!

-> Lets summarize the questions for those smart advocates

how the humans invented blood relation between Allah and the Hiddens / the Human leaders ?
how the Hiddens / Human leaders know (quite well) that they have indeed to appear (before his Judgment-Seat)?
and finally why the Ins were left out in 37158?

How about another click here mister smart?

Possibly, to be continued..

Ahmed,

Firstly your attitude to frame this as a win-lose type argument is very tired. Prior to your arrival this forum only rarely had individuals who took this approach to what should be discussion and debate. I think your previous experience with other win-lose type forums has influenced your behaviour here. If what you desire is to argue and fight in the style of a win-lose forum then there are plenty out there. Please join one of those and continue in the same style.

Otherwise, please spare us this type of confrontational attitude and the need to constantly remind you of this.

Coming to your "question". You'll notice that your position is actually self-refuting. You've refuted your own argument as is usual.

Look at the context

37149 Ask them if your Lord have daughters, while they have sons!
37150 Did we create the angels to be females? Did they witness that?
37151 Indeed, they grossly blaspheme when they say -
37152 "GOD has begotten a son." Indeed, they are liars.
37153 Did He choose the girls over the boys?
37154 What is wrong with your logic?
37155 Why do you not take heed?
37156 Do you have any proof?
37157 Show us your book, if you are truthful.
37158 They even invented a special relationship between Him and the jinns. The jinns themselves know that they are subservient.
37159 GOD be glorified; far above their claims.

The prophet is being told to ask the people who are FABRICATING falsehoods the questions in that passage. The "they" in 37158 refers to the same type of people who in 37152 say "God has begotten a son". Note that that statement relates slanderously the God to a human being.

37158 is again relating to a type of human - in this context probably meaning the distinguished people or people in charge - as in the high priests having an alleged special relationship with God which we know from history occured many times and still occurs. It states immediately following it that even these "high priests" know they have absolutely no power and are mortal - that their own sense of importance cannot hold water and that they are in fact subservient to the God.

How does understanding this as your mythical invisible being type that you hold to, help you in any way?

wildguest1956

Here is a tough one for those ?Hidden? ?Human Leader? meaning of Jinn advocates?

And they have invented a blood-relationship between Him and the Jinns but the Jinns know (quite well) that they have indeed to appear (before his Judgment-Seat)!

-> Let?s summarize the questions for those smart advocates

how the humans invented blood relation between Allah and the Hiddens / the Human leaders ?
how the Hiddens / Human leaders ?know (quite well) that they have indeed to appear (before his Judgment-Seat)??
and finally why the Ins were left out in 37158?

How about another click here mister smart?

Possibly, to be continued?..

Ahmed,

Firstly your attitude to frame this as a win-lose type argument is very tired. Prior to your arrival this forum only rarely had individuals who took this approach to what should be discussion and debate. I think your previous experience with other win-lose type forums has influenced your behaviour here. If what you desire is to argue and fight in the style of a win-lose forum then there are plenty out there. Please join one of those and continue in the same style.

Otherwise, please spare us this type of confrontational attitude and the need to constantly remind you of this.

I second that.

Coming to your "question". You'll notice that your position is actually self-refuting. You've refuted your own argument as is usual.

Look at the context

37149 Ask them if your Lord have daughters, while they have sons!
37150 Did we create the angels to be females? Did they witness that?
37151 Indeed, they grossly blaspheme when they say -
37152 "GOD has begotten a son." Indeed, they are liars.
37153 Did He choose the girls over the boys?
37154 What is wrong with your logic?
37155 Why do you not take heed?
37156 Do you have any proof?
37157 Show us your book, if you are truthful.
37158 They even invented a special relationship between Him and the jinns. The jinns themselves know that they are subservient.
37159 GOD be glorified; far above their claims.

The prophet is being told to ask the people who are FABRICATING falsehoods the questions in that passage. The "they" in 37158 refers to the same type of people who in 37152 say "God has begotten a son". Note that that statement relates slanderously the God to a human being.

37158 is again relating to a type of human - in this context probably meaning the distinguished people or people in charge - as in the high priests having an alleged special relationship with God which we know from history occured many times and still occurs. It states immediately following it that even these "high priests" know they have absolutely no power and are mortal - that their own sense of importance cannot hold water and that they are in fact subservient to the God.

How does understanding this as your mythical invisible being type that you hold to, help you in any way?

100% agreed

See also http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4434.msg64036#msg64036

Peace

truth

See also http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4434.msg64036#msg64036

Peace

Peace /JM/,

Thank you for posting the link to your post which I think you could usefully have copied to this thread.

It has helped gel the understanding of many passages for me. A very healthy dose of demystification. Excellent.

Regards.

truth

Peace to you and welcome to the forum,

Salam
I think you are falling into the trap of conjectures, and that is not good (Allah through Quran says it it the ploy of the disbeliever).
Then how about the Angels, are they also humans?

The actual conjecture is the creation in the minds of humans of mythical beings that relate to terms used in the reading.

If The God painstakingly described the Jinns and the Angels in the Quran, is it not enough as a proof of their existence...

The argument does not relate to "existence" which everyone is accepting of - it relates to the misconception of the word "jinn" as standing for a mythical type of being which owes more to the 1001 Arabian Nights and Arab mythology than to the reading.

Regards.

arnoldyasin

Peace truth,

I would like also your contribution to my article;

http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6089.0

wildguest1956

Peace
Sorry I don't understand, this is beyond my understanding, on the one hand The God talks to us about Ibliss who was of the Jinns, then you say he is in the mind of man and not real...
I like this saying "The devil's best ploy is to make you believe that he does not exist."
I am out of this.
Thank you
God bless
Nabster

See http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4398.msg62224#msg62224

Peace

unknownuser

Ahmed,

Yes

Firstly your attitude to frame this as a win-lose type argument is very tired.

Of course it is, for both parties btw, however this is how I planned it to be

Prior to your arrival this forum only rarely had individuals who took this approach to what should be discussion and debate.

Here we go when confronted with strong arguments you start resorting to character attacks and defemation

Well no response to me other than using my left ear as an exit for the crap entered through the right ear

I think your previous experience with other win-lose type forums has influenced your behaviour here.

Now this started to make no sense, I?m a member on those type of win/loose forums as you call?m before I joined here, so how the hell it influenced my behaviour here?

If what you desire is to argue and fight in the style of a win-lose forum then there are plenty out there. Please join one of those and continue in the same style.

And please can you stop these sorts of crap and respond to the Quran verses I posted?

Otherwise, please spare us this type of confrontational attitude and the need to constantly remind you of this.

You can save yourself the reminders as I will continue to do what I do when it comes to those who manipulate the clear Arabic Quran verses, i confront them with the Quran mister Quran alone

Coming to your "question". You'll notice that your position is actually self-refuting. You've refuted your own argument as is usual.

Now you started to be professional and respond to the argument head on, ler?s see how I refuted my self AS USUAL

Look at the context

37149 Ask them if your Lord have daughters, while they have sons!
37150 Did we create the angels to be females? Did they witness that?
37151 Indeed, they grossly blaspheme when they say -
37152 "GOD has begotten a son." Indeed, they are liars.
37153 Did He choose the girls over the boys?
37154 What is wrong with your logic?
37155 Why do you not take heed?
37156 Do you have any proof?
37157 Show us your book, if you are truthful.
37158 They even invented a special relationship between Him and the jinns. The jinns themselves know that they are subservient.
37159 GOD be glorified; far above their claims.

The prophet is being told to ask the people who are FABRICATING falsehoods the questions in that passage. The "they" in 37158 refers to the same type of people who in 37152 say "God has begotten a son". Note that that statement relates slanderously the God to a human being.

This is just nothing but load of non sense, 3158 is totally different context to the previous verses, absolutely no relationship however I may ask you, where in the verses that say the prophet been asked to ask the people who whatever??

37158 is again relating to a type of human ?

that is what you are manipulating, the verse never said so, it said THE JINNS mister, not the Ins, who are you trying to fool exactly?

I know, the fools

in this context probably meaning the distinguished people or people in charge - as in the high priests having an alleged special relationship with God which we know from history occured many times and still occurs.

I can see your confidence by using the word ?probably?, well probably means conjectures

It states immediately following it that even these "high priests" know they have absolutely no power and are mortal - that their own sense of importance cannot hold water and that they are in fact subservient to the God.

Well, let?s keep it as you said, ?Probably?

How does understanding this as your mythical invisible being type that you hold to, help you in any way?

It add no help but clearly shows me that the Quran is a book of non sense, however because humans are the ones who are claiming that non sense while Allah never suggested all these sorts of illogical and non sensible understandings, my faith in Allah words will never change because I will always take Allah words over the humans flawed words

unknownuser

I second that.

I don't really get it, do you second defamation?

how about you two don't respond to mme again?

this is much easier than defaming another person or what do you think?

wildguest1956

Well, what can I say, let?s look at this funny one

And throw down thy staff! But when he saw it writhing as it were a Jaan, he turned to flee headlong; (but it was said unto him) O Moses! Fear not! the emissaries fear not in My presence,

(10)

Now we have a serious problem, it seems when Moses threw his staff, it started to move like a Human leader yeah

I think that, in this verse, the word jinn is to be translated by "snake", as the majority of the translators did.
cf http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/27/10/default.htm

Peace

unknownuser

Well, what can I say, let?s look at this funny one

And throw down thy staff! But when he saw it writhing as it were a Jaan, he turned to flee headlong; (but it was said unto him) O Moses! Fear not! the emissaries fear not in My presence,

(10)

Now we have a serious problem, it seems when Moses threw his staff, it started to move like a Human leader yeah

I think that, in this verse, the word jinn is to be translated by "snake", as the majority of the translators did.
cf http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/27/10/default.htm

Peace

Bro, i don't really care how it's been translated to foriegn languages, Snake in arabic means "Thobaan" or "Haia", I never heard that "Jaan" means snake really, don't confuse the two incidents bro, Allah can make the staff a snake or a Jaan or even a human if He wants, in the case of Moses the verse above never said the staff was converted to something else, it only said the staff started to SHAKE like a Jaan, so please read the verse again and don't mix it with the other incident when Moses confornted the magicains

now the word jann for you can mean three things

a snake
hidden (not sure what exactly that is hidden)
a human leader

I can't even see any relation between the three above bro and you have a logical problem regarding item 2 above

Salam

wildguest1956

Well, what can I say, let?s look at this funny one

And throw down thy staff! But when he saw it writhing as it were a Jaan, he turned to flee headlong; (but it was said unto him) O Moses! Fear not! the emissaries fear not in My presence,

(10)

Now we have a serious problem, it seems when Moses threw his staff, it started to move like a Human leader yeah

I think that, in this verse, the word jinn is to be translated by "snake", as the majority of the translators did.
cf http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/27/10/default.htm

Peace

Bro, i don't really care how it's been translated to foriegn languages, Snake in arabic means "Thobaan" or "Haia", I never heard that "Jaan" means snake really, don't confuse the two incidents bro, Allah can make the staff a snake or a Jaan or even a human if He wants, in the case of Moses the verse above never said the staff was converted to something else, it only said the staff started to SHAKE like a Jaan, so please read the verse again and don't mix it with the other incident when Moses confornted the magicains

now the word jann for you can mean three things

a snake
hidden (not sure what exactly that is hidden)
a human leader

I can't even see any relation between the three above bro and you have a logical problem regarding item 2 above

Salam

This is the best interpretation I can provide for now.

If you have something better, please share it with us...

Peace

unknownuser

This is the best interpretation I can provide for now.

If you have something better, please share it with us...

Peace

I don't invent understandings, the word Jaan means what the Quran said it means, it is like something scary when you see one or something that looks like one, that is why moses was scared,

now the Quran also told us that The Jaan are created from fire as well it told us that they can do amazing things, like bringing the throne of the Queen of sheba to Soloman "btw, how the hidden/snake/human leader managed to do that?", the Quran also told us about the Jaan that they can see us and we can't see them, and many other things the Quran told us about the Jaan, so why i need to invent something illogical if the Quran has provided all the logical understainding regarding the word Jaan?

Salam

arnoldyasin

Peace,

AB, in sura 27 it says that the one with the knowledge about the letter/kitab/writings brought the throne, which was Hudhud. The Hoepoe bird cannot fly over long distances, and it is known that Solomon had an ambassador called Hadud in hebrew. So it was not a bird nor a jinn, but a person who brought the throne. Plus, i see the 'bring it in a blink of an eye' comment as an expression.

arnoldyasin

Peace,

Nabster, let's see what you make of this

http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6089.0

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

WOW! I am waaaay behind. Sorry, this is a response from page 2, but here we go.

Tay wrote

I voted to keep jinn untranslated, mostly because no definition offered by anyone thus far makes a perfect fit in every instance.

For example, those who think of jinn as invisible beings only, or emotions only, would have trouble explaining these occurrences

Quote
6100 And they made partners with God from among the Jinn, while He had created them. And they invented for Him sons and daughters without them having any knowledge! Be He glorified and far above what they describe.

My position has no problem with this verse. Jinn are our thoughts/imagination/emotions and certainly most of mankind follow emotions over the God's instruction. Mankind creates all types of fantasies without any knowledge.

"From among the jinn" confirms in certainty that one or more jinn were worshipped as partners with God. Yet we have no trace of evidence that determines who these people were nor what jinn they worshipped.

From among the jinn means from thier thoughts/imagination.

Quote
6128 And the Day we gather them all ?O tribes of Jinn, you have managed to take many humans.? Their supporters from the humans said ?Our Lord, we have indeed enjoyed one another, and we have reached our destiny to which You delayed us.? He said ?The Fire is your dwelling, in it you shall abide eternally, except as your Lord wishes.? Your Lord is Wise, Knowledgeable.

What does this mean?

It means that many people are not aware that they dont have to follow the thoughts that come to them. For example, an obese person sees chocolate cake and feels compelled to eat it. The thoughts start coming to them "I can start my diet tommorrow" and the image comes to them of them enjoying the cake, and th eemotions follo PUSHING them to eat it. But God made us FREE to ignore any impulse, however, most of mankind are unaware of this.

What has to be understood is that jinn are part of the nafs(spirit), and is not "I", but something we are in charge of, just like th ephysical body is not you, but something you are in charge of.