Translation of `Jinn`
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Well, what can I say, let?s look at this funny one
And throw down thy staff! But when he saw it writhing as it were a Jaan, he turned to flee headlong; (but it was said unto him) O Moses! Fear not! the emissaries fear not in My presence,
(10)
Now we have a serious problem, it seems when Moses threw his staff, it started to move like a Human leader yeah
I think that, in this verse, the word jinn is to be translated by "snake", as the majority of the translators did.
cf http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/27/10/default.htmPeace
Bro, i don't really care how it's been translated to foriegn languages, Snake in arabic means "Thobaan" or "Haia", I never heard that "Jaan" means snake really, don't confuse the two incidents bro, Allah can make the staff a snake or a Jaan or even a human if He wants, in the case of Moses the verse above never said the staff was converted to something else, it only said the staff started to SHAKE like a Jaan, so please read the verse again and don't mix it with the other incident when Moses confornted the magicains
now the word jann for you can mean three things
- a snake
- hidden (not sure what exactly that is hidden)
- a human leader
I can't even see any relation between the three above bro and you have a logical problem regarding item 2 above
Salam
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Well, what can I say, let?s look at this funny one
And throw down thy staff! But when he saw it writhing as it were a Jaan, he turned to flee headlong; (but it was said unto him) O Moses! Fear not! the emissaries fear not in My presence,
(10)
Now we have a serious problem, it seems when Moses threw his staff, it started to move like a Human leader yeah
I think that, in this verse, the word jinn is to be translated by "snake", as the majority of the translators did.
cf http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/27/10/default.htmPeace
Bro, i don't really care how it's been translated to foriegn languages, Snake in arabic means "Thobaan" or "Haia", I never heard that "Jaan" means snake really, don't confuse the two incidents bro, Allah can make the staff a snake or a Jaan or even a human if He wants, in the case of Moses the verse above never said the staff was converted to something else, it only said the staff started to SHAKE like a Jaan, so please read the verse again and don't mix it with the other incident when Moses confornted the magicains
now the word jann for you can mean three things
- a snake
- hidden (not sure what exactly that is hidden)
- a human leader
I can't even see any relation between the three above bro and you have a logical problem regarding item 2 above
Salam
This is the best interpretation I can provide for now.
If you have something better, please share it with us...
Peace
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This is the best interpretation I can provide for now.
If you have something better, please share it with us...
Peace
I don't invent understandings, the word Jaan means what the Quran said it means, it is like something scary when you see one or something that looks like one, that is why moses was scared,
now the Quran also told us that The Jaan are created from fire as well it told us that they can do amazing things, like bringing the throne of the Queen of sheba to Soloman "btw, how the hidden/snake/human leader managed to do that?", the Quran also told us about the Jaan that they can see us and we can't see them, and many other things the Quran told us about the Jaan, so why i need to invent something illogical if the Quran has provided all the logical understainding regarding the word Jaan?
Salam
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Peace,
AB, in sura 27 it says that the one with the knowledge about the letter/kitab/writings brought the throne, which was Hudhud. The Hoepoe bird cannot fly over long distances, and it is known that Solomon had an ambassador called Hadud in hebrew. So it was not a bird nor a jinn, but a person who brought the throne. Plus, i see the 'bring it in a blink of an eye' comment as an expression.
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Peace,
Nabster, let's see what you make of this
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6089.0
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Peace be upon you,
WOW! I am waaaay behind. Sorry, this is a response from page 2, but here we go.
Tay wrote
I voted to keep jinn untranslated, mostly because no definition offered by anyone thus far makes a perfect fit in every instance.
For example, those who think of jinn as invisible beings only, or emotions only, would have trouble explaining these occurrences
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6100 And they made partners with God from among the Jinn, while He had created them. And they invented for Him sons and daughters without them having any knowledge! Be He glorified and far above what they describe.My position has no problem with this verse. Jinn are our thoughts/imagination/emotions and certainly most of mankind follow emotions over the God's instruction. Mankind creates all types of fantasies without any knowledge.
"From among the jinn" confirms in certainty that one or more jinn were worshipped as partners with God. Yet we have no trace of evidence that determines who these people were nor what jinn they worshipped.
From among the jinn means from thier thoughts/imagination.
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6128 And the Day we gather them all ?O tribes of Jinn, you have managed to take many humans.? Their supporters from the humans said ?Our Lord, we have indeed enjoyed one another, and we have reached our destiny to which You delayed us.? He said ?The Fire is your dwelling, in it you shall abide eternally, except as your Lord wishes.? Your Lord is Wise, Knowledgeable.What does this mean?
It means that many people are not aware that they dont have to follow the thoughts that come to them. For example, an obese person sees chocolate cake and feels compelled to eat it. The thoughts start coming to them "I can start my diet tommorrow" and the image comes to them of them enjoying the cake, and th eemotions follo PUSHING them to eat it. But God made us FREE to ignore any impulse, however, most of mankind are unaware of this.
What has to be understood is that jinn are part of the nafs(spirit), and is not "I", but something we are in charge of, just like th ephysical body is not you, but something you are in charge of.
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Peace be upon you,
I am now jumping to the end to discuss the verse 2710
(2710) And throw your stick, so when he saw it , it shakes/moves as if it is a "jinn" he turned away giving his back, and he did not follow/succeed/track "You Moses, do not fear, that I, the messengers do not fear at/by/near Me."
The question is , how did SNAKE get to be an option? All of these metaphors are old symbolisms. The God told us that we should trust in what was sent to us AND those before us. We have to do research to understand this message.
How does energy move? Just like a snake, in a WAVE.
That which you think is solid is really just energy (E=mc2). And when you break down all these physical bodies that appear to be seperate, we can see that ALL is just the VERY SAME ENERGY in different forms. ONENESS.
Emotions are "energy in motion".
So we have the SNAKE in the Garden, which whispers to Adam(intellect). All this ties together. This is a message about HOW WE WORK and we need to know this so we can change our behavior. We are not given a book about boogey men hiding in the shadows and told to blindly believe it.
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Peace be upon you Imram K.
Actually it's only JM that's advocating the 'human leaders' argument ( to my knowledge ) most others believe jinns to be allegorical for the hidden/dark side of man.
The hidden side of BEING, not man. The visable side of BEING is MAN(Insaan), the unseen side is (jinn). The term "dark side" can be misleading. Jinn can and should be used for positivity, just like Solomon shows us. However most of us are slaves to our thoughts/images/emotions.
Are our primal urges innate or result of the choices we make?
I believe in the choices we make. I believe in accountability. And I choose not to blame that on a hidden/evil side.
A metaphor that will help you is to look at a gardner (you) and the garden (Nafs where jinn reside). Yes, we are responsible for managing our "garden" by putting the correct seeds in there and taking time to weed(purify) the garden. We cannot go back and blame the garden for the weeds. Likewise, no one is blaming any "darkside", just taking the veil off this metaphor about mans make-up.
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Peace,
Nabster, let's see what you make of this
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6089.0
Peace arnoldyasin
From a first quick read, are you suggesting we have a split personality?
How about those groups of jinns who were listening to the Quran, accepted it then went to their communities to announce it.
I get what you and Ibn Kathir are saying, and it is true that the word jinn means a few different things in arabic, but when Allah refers to the community of the Jinns, they are entities different from us. Did you know that the word Innsan has also different meanings (and a derivative of the root word is nasia which means forgetful), but when Allah refers to the Inns community He means the Human community.
I think we should stop playing with words here, it is dangerous, let us leave this in the mutashabihaat...
I still do not agree...
Salams
NabsterPeace,
And you judge it after a quick read? Then your opinion doesn't count as you are not really interrested. You just want to hang on to your opinion without investigating other opinions. It doesn't matter that you look at it differently as we are all on a different level, but it does matter the way you do it.
God bless
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Peace be upon you Layth,
I have read the posts in this thread and would just like to comment on the posts who argue that
Jinnare humans or emotions or the such...Did we not read in the Scripture that humans are created from clay/mud while Jinn were created before from flames of fire?
This simple fact leaves no room for these discussions that we & the jinn can be one in the same.
They are an older being, while we are a younger one.
Brother Layth, nothing on the physical realm was created before the idea and image were thought of. For example, before the computer was made , someone had to have the THOUGHT of it and form an IMAGE of it (jinn).
This is the process of life. I strongly recommend all to read this small book called "As a man thinketh"
http//website.lineone.net/~jamesallen1/think.htm
Also, on the subject of translating as
hidden, that does not work or make sence in some verses, while at the same time we are told that Jinn are physical with hearts, eyes, ears, and that they were taken as partners or gods by some humans.We are never told they are physical, that is just a conclusion that was reached, but when we are dreaming (A very big part of human life) we are using the ears and eyes of "jinn".
Jinn are perhaps able to take on human form which explains how humans would worship them or set them-up as partners...It would also explain the issue of us not seeing them (i.e. there true form) while they can see us.
Humans worship lust, greed, etc. Thats the partners thay serve
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Peace be upon you Nabster,
Can I kindly clarify something, the Quran does not speak in metaphors, he tells us true stories that can inspire us and increase in faith. A metaphor can be false. There is nothing false in the Quran. The Mutashabihat are declarations that will become clear when we increase in understanding and these too are truths, but we are unable to understand them yet.
I wanted to make this clear.
May The God increase us in wisdomAre you not aware that the God does not shy away from any similitude? Respectfully, only 7 posts here does not qualify you to inform any of us if we are able to understand what this reading was sent to tell us. ) I leave you with Peace and I hope you will take some time to look at the various discussions here to get caught up.
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Peace Kyle,
WOW! I am waaaay behind. Sorry, this is a response from page 2, but here we go.
Yeah man, get with the program!
Just to be clear, some of the quotes don't fit one explanation, and some don't fit the other, in my opinion of course. So, I'll skip the ones you replied to where the focus was on those who think of jinns as invisible beings.
Re 2710
How does energy move? Just like a snake, in a WAVE.
That which you think is solid is really just energy (E=mc2). And when you break down all these physical bodies that appear to be seperate, we can see that ALL is just the VERY SAME ENERGY in different forms. ONENESS.
The only problem is the fear that Moses felt after seeing whatever it is that he saw. How does that fit into your explanation?
"...ya moosa la takhaf..."
"...O Moses, do not fear..."Do you suppose Moses actually saw a snake, and the story is symbolic of what the snake may represent?
Or, do you feel that what Moses saw can only be best described as a snake, but what he actually saw was something fundamental in the composition of life?Peace,
Tay -
Peace
arnoldyasin I am not hanging on to my own opinion. I believe for a fact that Jinns are real as Humans and Angels are. It is not an opinion, but a fact, because the Quran expresses so. As I believe in The god, even though I cannot see Him.
I found your article too difficult to read. The Quran is simpler to read, and from it I read clearly that both Jinns and Angels are separate entities to us Humans. I came to the Quran very late in my life, and initially started with translations in english and french, but since i am an arabic native speaker, I decided to read it in arabic, the only thing i also read the tafsir of ibn kathir alongside, but when i read the quran on its own i was free to understand it the way Allah meant me to.
This web-site is part of my journey of discovery, and I made a 180 degrees change in a few matters, but some opinions expressed here are not always correct.
Sorry if I seem to have offended you, I did not mean to, you are free to have your opinions, but opinions are different from facts.
Salam
NabsterPeace,
No, you have not offended me. Do what you feel best. But my article is a summary and comparison of the verses about jinn. Everybody is on their own level.
Peace bro
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Peace nabster, and welcome,
You stated
I believe for a fact that Jinns are real as Humans and Angels are. It is not an opinion, but a fact, because the Quran expresses so.
I don't think anyone is disputing whether or not jinns are real. The debate is about the composition of jinn, if you will. Either side of the argument has to extrapolate this composition, since all we know from the Qur'an is that they were made of "fire". And we can see fire, right?
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Tay,
I don't think anyone is disputing whether or not jinns are real. The debate is about the composition of jinn, if you will. Either side of the argument has to extrapolate this composition, since all we know from the Qur'an is that they were made of "fire". And we can see fire, right?
Ever heard of or thought about worshipping of "Fire" or "The Sun" by the pagans in the jahiliya period, thereby the acquisition of "power" and being "hidden"? Just curious.
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Peace Danish,
Sure I've heard of sun/fire worship, but I didn't think about plugging this concept into the jinn mystery. We also have volcano worhippers. Would lava count as "smokeless" fire? I dunno bro. Like I said, in my mind, no one concept fits all the contexts, which leads me to conclude that "jinn" is a blanket term, a description for something incorporeal, but an intrinsic part of man.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace,
AB, in sura 27 it says that the one with the knowledge about the letter/kitab/writings brought the throne, which was Hudhud. The Hoepoe bird cannot fly over long distances, and it is known that Solomon had an ambassador called Hadud in hebrew. So it was not a bird nor a jinn, but a person who brought the throne. Plus, i see the 'bring it in a blink of an eye' comment as an expression.
Itqi Allah bro
You are promoting non sense and lies, I?m amazed that for every reasonable statement you make, you follow it with tens of non sensible comments, I only speak by the Quran bro and anything else is not addmissable including the hadith despite I?m a hadith a believer
Now what you said above is 100% wrong and is a total manipulation to Allah words and I warn you bro that this is a sin that will incur grevious punishment if you don?t repent from promting conjectures to mislead many na?ve brothers and sisters
If you say ignorant comments like the above bro then trust me the Quran will expose you fair and square, now here is the Quran telling us that the Hudhud is a bird
?And he sought among the birds and said How is it that I see not the Hudhud, or is it among the absent??
(20)
-> See bro, , , ?And he sought among the birds, what can I say bro, the word is , ?Al Tair?, do you know what that is in Arabic?, well it means ?The Birds?, then Soloman said after he sought among THE BIRDS, ?and said How is it that I see not the Hudhud, or is it among the absent?? , therefore Solomon didn?t find the Hudhud within THE BIRDS
Let me put it to you in a mathematical manner
- Solomon was checking on THE BIRDS
- Then he said, where is the Hudhud?
From 1 & 2 we can conclude that the Hudhud is A BIRD
Itqi Allah bro
Salam
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Peace be upon you brother Tay,
IF1
How does energy move? Just like a snake, in a WAVE.That which you think is solid is really just energy (E=mc2). And when you break down all these physical bodies that appear to be seperate, we can see that ALL is just the VERY SAME ENERGY in different forms. ONENESS.
Tay
The only problem is the fear that Moses felt after seeing whatever it is that he saw. How does that fit into your explanation?"...ya moosa la takhaf..."
"...O Moses, do not fear..."Do you suppose Moses actually saw a snake, and the story is symbolic of what the snake may represent?
Or, do you feel that what Moses saw can only be best described as a snake, but what he actually saw was something fundamental in the composition of life?Lets really get into this story.
Musa saw a fire burning, an energy source. It is energy that allows things to happen, nothing can happen without energy. It is also a symbol of light which brings clarity. So Musa went to this energy source, which at this point was "far off" from Musas viewpoint. He left his family behind! (meaning he let go of all tradition/preconcieved ideas, just like Mariam when she concieved the Will(Isa)).
(2010) When he saw a fire, so he said to his family "Wait/remain/stay, that I , I perceived/saw a fire, maybe/perhaps I come to you from it with a fire's flame/torch, or I find on (at) the fire guidance."
When Musa got to this "Divine Energy" he was called
(2012) O Musa, Surely I am your Lord, so take off your two shoes , that you are at the sacred valley wrapped within.
Now we understand that Musa's journey was not a physical journey ..."remove your shoes"....it is a spiritual one, into the "subconscious" or "Nafs". It is what the ancients called the "underworld" or what they call in the movies "the dark side" or "Matrix".
This is the part of "being" that possess POWER. This is the part that CARRIES THINGS OUT. It is likened to a garden.
Understand that YOU are consciousness. That is what you are. WILLING is what you do. Thats all. There is no POWER in percieving and willing. FOr example, you WILL to stop smoking, but your SPIRIT(nafs) keeps carrying out smoking. We can liken that to planting seeds in the winter, no matter what you do, the garden will not BRING FORTH fruit that you WILL.
So while YOU are consciousness, there is another part of being that "YOU" were given and that is the NAFS(Spirit). That is the ENERGY/MATTER part of being. (Energy and matter are the same thing). Everything that happens in your life is brought about by the HIDDEN ENERGIES within the spirit(nafs). The Good news is that these energies were given to us to be our servants, the bad news is no one remembers this, so they are given good and bad in life haphazardly. They are like a man in a flood, tossed back and forth.
Lets get back to the story of Musa.
(2017) And what (is) that at your right O Moses?
(201 He said "It is my stick, I lean on/support myself on it, and I hit/move/shake with it on my sheep and goats, and for me in it others needs/purposes."
The stick represents the philosophy of Musa. His crystalized group of conditionings that have become habit for him and run his life. His web of beliefs and ideas that govern his thinking. He "RELIES" on it. That is his "FOUNDATION", and he leads others by his philosophy (weather correct or wrong).
(2019) He said "Throw it away, you Moses."
He told Musa to get rid of that "web of beliefs", that philosophy.
(2020) So he threw it away, so then it is (a) quick moving snake/alive.
I recall learning that the word for snake is not there, but it just means something like "came alive", but weather "snake" or "came alive", it still deals with the energetic/wavelike substance of Musa beliefs, Meaning that our philosophies and beliefs are a bunch of illusions and baseless ideas we recieve have reinforced through emotional nature(snake). When we become emotional, we become receptive to ideas. That is the basis of Baptist church sermons as well as African drum rituals, etc. Notice that the ancient khamitans (egyptians) wore the upright serpent on thier foreheads. They understood this well. When the seeds are planted and watered, it is the SUN that ultimately makes it grow. The SOLAR FORCE is what we call "Ruh Ul Qudus". It is not to be worshipped, only understood.
But since we were never taught about the Divine Energy" (ruh ul qudus), we take in all kinds of foolish seeds into our gardens and get fruits we dont desire.
Getting back to Musa, God restored Musa's belief system back to the ORIGINAL
(2021) He said "Take it and do not fear, We will return it (to) its form , the first/beginning."
This does not mean back to a stick from a snake, it means he is taking Musa belief system and PURIFYING IT (fire) to reveal its original form. This is further clarified by Musa hand coming out white "purified/clean".
The original philosophy, the God's Deen, swallows up any other philosophy because it is based on objective LAW, can be proven.
The ruh ul qudus, is the solar force, the Life force. Little do we know, so we must seek knowledge of it. I have done so. It comes to us in two modalities, a unifying mode (malaika) and a seperating mode (shayteen), but both modalities are HIDDEN(jinn).
I will speak more on this later, but just wanted to show that after Musa's philosophy was purified, he was able to move waters and make waters gush from rocks (all symbolisms of course).
I almost forgot the question ;D Isnt it scary when the beliefs that you base your life on are torn from under you? Isnt that what causes all the animosity from people who come here and cant handle the proofs they find? The FEAR?
I bear witness that it is scary, at first. I myself was sitting in the masjid I used to attend shaking and scared I was goig to go to some eternal hell fire and burn. Isnt it scary, at first, to think about what your frineds and family will think when you have to "change your Qibla"?
Just give it some thought.