What is a jinn ?

[truth]

Jinn according to M. Ali

See http//aaiil.org/text/books/mali/religionislam/angels/angels.djvu

Pages 142 to 151
And especially pages 144 to 147 for the chapter "The word Jinn as applied to men" very, very interesting...

To download the djvu plug-in http//www.lizardtech.com/download/dl_options.php?page=plugins

Dear /JM/

Thank you for this link. It is indeed a good discussion especially the pages you mention. Fantastic in fact.

I'm more convinced than ever of the fact that 'jinn' is a description of humans and human nature and accepting that the jinn are anything but that is illogical.

Unfortunately the discussion in another thread has diverged due to 'bombing' of the thread with material unrelated to the topic; but your ideas and source materials have been very good reading.

Peace.

[wildguest1956]

Jinn according to M. Ali

See http//aaiil.org/text/books/mali/religionislam/angels/angels.djvu

Pages 142 to 151
And especially pages 144 to 147 for the chapter "The word Jinn as applied to men" very, very interesting...

To download the djvu plug-in http//www.lizardtech.com/download/dl_options.php?page=plugins

Dear /JM/

Thank you for this link. It is indeed a good discussion especially the pages you mention. Fantastic in fact.

I'm more convinced than ever of the fact that 'jinn' is a description of humans and human nature and accepting that the jinn are anything but that is illogical.

Unfortunately the discussion in another thread has diverged due to 'bombing' of the thread with material unrelated to the topic; but your ideas and source materials have been very good reading.

Peace.

I am glad this thread has been appreciated by at least one person.

I you find a verse which seems hard to explain with the ?jinn=chiefs? paradigm, feel free to bring it.

Peace

[warner]

Peace

If we consider Jinns as leaders, is the word jinn referring to a title
or is it referring to a clan/group ?
I mean, will someone be always a jinn once they are a jinn/leader
Or their position can vary between jinn and man.

Also, I still can not figure out the connection between ?created by fire?
and leaders?

[truth]

Peace

If we consider Jinns as leaders, is the word jinn referring to a title
or is it referring to a clan/group ?
I mean, will someone be always a jinn once they are a jinn/leader
Or their position can vary between jinn and man.

Also, I still can not figure out the connection between ?created by fire?
and leaders?

The created from "fire" (immaterial) in 1527 is a reference to "jinn" as being "human nature" prior to the creation of flesh from "clay" (material).

Peace.

[truth]

My point is that there is no jinn (in the sense of hidden being) messenger mentioned in the Quran, while in this verse, it is said that there are messengers among ins and jinn.

Peace,

Furthermore it should be obvious from chapter 72 that "jinn" are listening to the reading from a human messenger!

A clear sign that they are one and the same being.

[unknownuser]

in 1527 is a reference to "jinn" as being "human nature" prior to the creation of flesh from "clay" (material).

What you said above is total manipilation and I will consider it a Lie unless you back it off, now don't bring new materials, here is 1526-27 and again the humans were diffrentiated from the Jinn, Itqi Allah Oben

(26)

(27)

[unknownuser]

do you realize what you just said?

LOL

[warner]

Peace

If we consider Jinns as leaders, is the word jinn referring to a title
or is it referring to a clan/group ?
I mean, will someone be always a jinn once they are a jinn/leader
Or their position can vary between jinn and man.

Also, I still can not figure out the connection between ?created by fire?
and leaders?

The created from "fire" (immaterial) in 1527 is a reference to "jinn" as being "human nature" prior to the creation of flesh from "clay" (material).

Peace.

Peace

Thanks for trying to explain can you explain the first part also.

How do we connect, Iblis refusing to prostrate to Adam since
he was created from clay but Iblis being Jinn and having
?human nature? according to you. What was the problem between clay and fire.
Can you please explain this in detail because it is bit confusing right now.

Do you think there is a connection between names Iblis and Ifrit ?

[wildguest1956]

If we consider Jinns as leaders, is the word jinn referring to a title
or is it referring to a clan/group ?
I mean, will someone be always a jinn once they are a jinn/leader
Or their position can vary between jinn and man.

To understand it, you have to represent in your mind the life in a chiefdom community.
See my 2 previous posts
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4435.msg93519#msg93519
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4435.msg93521#msg93521

Also, I still can not figure out the connection between ?created by fire?
and leaders?

See http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4435.msg93535#msg93535

Peace

How do we connect, Iblis refusing to prostrate to Adam since
he was created from clay but Iblis being Jinn and having
?human nature? according to you. What was the problem between clay and fire.
Can you please explain this in detail because it is bit confusing right now.

See the parallel between these 3 sequences

He said ?O Iblis, what is the matter that you are not with those who have submitted?? He said ?I am not to submit to a human You have created from a hardened clay.? He said ?Exit from here, you are cast out.?

Except Iblis; he turned arrogant, and became one of the rejecters. He said ?O Satan, what prevented you from submitting to what I have created by My hands? Are you too arrogant? Or are you one of those exalted??He said ?I am better than he; You created me from fire, and created him from clay.?

He said ?What has prevented you from submitting when I have ordered you?? He said ?I am far better than him, You created me from fire and created him from clay!?

That?s why I think the fire is a symbol of the fiery (arrogant, overproud) mindset of Iblis, as well as the clay is a symbol of the humility and malleability mindset of Adam.

In these chiefdom communities, there were 2 class of people the chiefs, and the commoners. The chiefs were profiting of the commoners and misleading them in idolatry.
Sometimes, a messenger came to them, announcing message of God. Very often, the leaders refused the message of God, and tried to mislead the commoners, claiming that the messenger is a liar, etc?

This pattern can be found at many places in the quran

The leaders who were arrogant from among his people said to those who were weak and believed from amongst them ?How do you know that Saleh was sent from his Lord?? They said ?We believe in what he has been sent with.? Those who were arrogant said ?In that which you believe, we reject!?

Then, after them, We sent Moses and Aaron with Our signs to Pharaoh and his leaders, but they turned arrogant, they were a criminal people.

And they appeared before God, all of them. And the weak ones said to those who were arrogant ?We were following you, so will you avail us anything from God?s retribution?? They said ?If God had guided us, then we would have guided you. It makes no difference if we cry out or are patient, for we have no refuge.?

Then We sent Moses and his brother Aaron with Our signs and a clear authority. To Pharaoh and his leaders. But they became arrogant, for they were a high and mighty people.

And when they argue in Hell, the weak will say to those who were arrogant ?We used to be your followers, can you take from us any portion of the Fire?? Those who were arrogant will Say ?We are all in it together, for God has passed judgment upon the servants.?

See in addition http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5787.0

The story of Iblis and Adam is symbolic of this recurrent pattern. Iblis symbolises the fiery and arrogant leaders who refuse to accept the message of God. And Adam symbolises the malleable people who sometimes are misled by their leaders, and sometimes follow the messenger.

And We said to the Angels ?Submit to Adam.? So they all submitted except for Iblis, he was of the Jinn, so he disobeyed the order of his Lord. ?Will you take him and his progeny as allies besides Me, while they are your enemy?? Miserable for the wicked is the substitute!

This verse does not imply that Iblis belongs to some race of invisible beings called jinns. It means that Iblis is of the same nature of the arrogant chiefs (jinn) who try to mislead the malleable commoners (ins).
The progeny of Iblis are the chiefs the commoners sometimes chose to follow instead of the messengers of God.

Is it not easy to understand?

Do you think there is a connection between names Iblis and Ifrit ?

See http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4435.msg94065#msg94065

Peace

[truth]

Peace

If we consider Jinns as leaders, is the word jinn referring to a title
or is it referring to a clan/group ?
I mean, will someone be always a jinn once they are a jinn/leader
Or their position can vary between jinn and man.

Also, I still can not figure out the connection between ?created by fire?
and leaders?

The created from "fire" (immaterial) in 1527 is a reference to "jinn" as being "human nature" prior to the creation of flesh from "clay" (material).

Peace.

Peace

Thanks for trying to explain can you explain the first part also.

How do we connect, Iblis refusing to prostrate to Adam since
he was created from clay but Iblis being Jinn and having
?human nature? according to you. What was the problem between clay and fire.
Can you please explain this in detail because it is bit confusing right now.

Do you think there is a connection between names Iblis and Ifrit ?

My view is that "jinn" is contextual. One must consider what it is referring to and attempting to apply one meaning to all instances is how the confusion arises.

Apart from both beginning with "I" and being two syllables with similar vowel, no I personally can't see a connection.

Peace.

[warner]

Peace

Thank you for the explanation.

Was Iblis created before Adam.

Also, are you implying that all this is symbolic? The creation of man from clay, angels prostrating and Iblis refusing, the creation of the mate, the episode of the tree in the garden and subsequent banishment to earth and Iblis being cursed till the Day of Judgment. That means the leaders are cursed by God and have no opportunity to repent or enter paradise and they will always mislead men from the path.

[wildguest1956]

Peace

Thank you for the explanation.

Was Iblis created before Adam.

I don?t think so.

And We have created man from a clay hardened and shaped. And the Jinn, We created him before (min qablu) that from the flames of fire.

People usually conclude from this that the jinn (a species of invisible beings) have been created before the human beings.

The key word is min qablu. It is true it can mean before, but it can also simply mean ?in the past?.

2 examples
We had already, beforehand (min qablu), taken the covenant of Adam, but he forgot and We found on his part no firm resolve.
Within a few years. With Allah is the Decision, in the past (min qablu) and in the Future on that Day shall the Believers rejoice-

Assuming this word means ?before?, let?s have a look a the context

And We have known those who came early amongst you, and We have known those who came late. And it is your Lord that will gather them. He is Wise, Knowledgeable. And We have created man from a clay hardened and shaped. And the Jinn, We created him before (min qablu) that from the flames of fire.

In the preceding verse, there is a reference to the gathering (into the hell). So, the min qablu in , could simply mean that the ins and the jinn have been created before their gathering in hell.

And if We had wished, We could have given every soul its guidance, but the word from Me has taken effect, that I will fill Hell with Jinn and humans all together.

See also http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5787.0

Also, are you implying that all this is symbolic? The creation of man from clay, angels prostrating and Iblis refusing, the creation of the mate, the episode of the tree in the garden and subsequent banishment to earth and Iblis being cursed till the Day of Judgment.

Yes.
As I have explained you, it is symbolical of the relation between everyone, God (and its message), and the misguiders (shayateen).
It is not an event that took place sometimes in the past? It is something that happens everyday in everyone?s mind.
It is guidance for the believers, in their everyday's life.

That means the leaders are cursed by God and have no opportunity to repent or enter paradise and they will always mislead men from the path.

When reading the Quran, you can find in multiples occurrences the story about the leaders who mislead their commoners. You will also find that, at the time they will all be gathered in hell (the leaders as well as the commoners), the leaders will abandon their commoners.

However, there are some exceptions.
Salomon and his nobles were on the right side. And the queen Sheba (and her nobles), when invited to submit to God, has accepted.
The prophet Muhammad also met the leaders of a Jew tribe (), and they have chosen to submit to God.
In the beginning of surah 72, there is also a story about the leaders of some Christian nation, and some of them will accept the guidance.

Peace

[arnoldyasin]

Peace,

Warner; download my article on jinn

http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6089.0

As for the tree in the Adam story, it can be explained by the word djenna=garden hidden by foilage/trees. So the trees resemble the deeds, and the ground(garden) resembles the results of those deeds. When looking at the context of the verses, the tree Adam was told not to approach, says it was a deed that they shouldn?t approach, which was division among the people. So djenna is not up there somewhere. This all comes from the Bible and has infected our minds. Djenna is the perfect result of the good deeds. Gehenna is the result of bad deeds(which is given as zulqan, the tree of hell). These are no places.

[ayman]

Peace all,

One thing that everyone here might want to consider is that the stone cubic blocks (such as the one in present day Mecca) were called "jinn" blocks. Why is that? I think this small clue plus logically analyzing 3440-41 and 5319-27 further clarifies the meaning of "jinn".

Peace,

Ayman

[wildguest1956]

Peace all,

One thing that everyone here might want to consider is that the stone cubic blocks (such as the one in present day Mecca) were called "jinn" blocks. Why is that? I think this small clue plus logically analyzing 3440-41 and 5319-27 further clarifies the meaning of "jinn".

Peace,

Ayman

You migh wish to consider the following post
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4434.msg64036#msg64036

Peqce

[ayman]

Peace JM,

One thing that everyone here might want to consider is that the stone cubic blocks (such as the one in present day Mecca) were called "jinn" blocks. Why is that? I think this small clue plus logically analyzing 3440-41 and 5319-27 further clarifies the meaning of "jinn".

You migh wish to consider the following post
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4434.msg64036#msg64036

I think the issue with your post is that you make good observations about the relationship between Chapter 53 and 3440-41. The observation is that Allat, Al3uzza and Manat are considered controllers by those who don't have faith when in reality they are "jinn". But then you draw a conclusion that is not relevant to the good observation that you made earlier. Your conclusion that "jinn" are leaders is irrelevant because certainly Allat, Al3uzza and Manat are not leaders. They are inert objects and any "power" attributed to them is only the result of human imagination. So they are in fact a product of the human fantasy/imagination. This is why their abstract (i.e., imaginary) representation is called "jinn" block. This is further proof that "jinn" simply means "fantasy".

Peace,

Ayman

[wildguest1956]

Peace JM,

One thing that everyone here might want to consider is that the stone cubic blocks (such as the one in present day Mecca) were called "jinn" blocks. Why is that? I think this small clue plus logically analyzing 3440-41 and 5319-27 further clarifies the meaning of "jinn".

You migh wish to consider the following post
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4434.msg64036#msg64036

I think the issue with your post is that you make good observations about the relationship between Chapter 53 and 3440-41. The observation is that Allat, Al3uzza and Manat are considered controllers by those who don't have faith when in reality they are "jinn". But then you draw a conclusion that is not relevant to the good observation that you made earlier. Your conclusion that "jinn" are leaders is irrelevant because certainly Allat, Al3uzza and Manat are not leaders. They are inert objects and any "power" attributed to them is only the result of human imagination. So they are in fact a product of the human fantasy/imagination. This is why their abstract (i.e., imaginary) representation is called "jinn" block. This is further proof that "jinn" simply means "fantasy".

Peace,

Ayman

Peace Ayman,

I never said that Allat, Aluzza and Manat were leaders.
They were idols created and maintained by the chiefs (the jinn) to subject the commoners.
The chiefs (jinn) made the commoners believe they served/worshipped Allat, Aluzza and Manat, whereas in fact, the commoners, while serving/worshiping these deities were actually serving their chiefs (jinn).

This is IMHO the real lesson of the verse , and it is confirmed by anthropology

Chiefs actually didn't serve the public; they duped the public into serving them, and religion was part of the duping. As one archaeologist puts it, "Chiefs coopt the religious authority of the community for themselves."
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4435.msg93521#msg93521

You may know that the scene of chiefs having control over commoners is omnipresent in the Quran. In addition, another trick used by the chiefs to maintain control over the commoners was to erect a language barrier. Does it not sound familiar to you ?

Peace

[ayman]

Peace JM,

I never said that Allat, Aluzza and Manat were leaders.

I never said that you said that. We agree that Allat, Aluzza and Manat are not leaders. We also agree that Allat, Aluzza and Manat are "jinn" (as per Chapter 53 and 34;40-41). So the conclusion must be that "jinn" are not leaders. If you want to find out what "jinn" really are then find out what "Allat, Aluzza and Manat" really are. One of the brothers here pointed out to me that there must be a reason why we are told specifically about those idols in the great reading while many other ancient Arabian idols are not mentioned. The God knew that those idols would continue to be relevant to this day as evident from the pagan rituals going on in so-called Mecca.

They were idols created and maintained by the chiefs (the jinn) to subject the commoners.
The chiefs (jinn) made the commoners believe they served/worshipped Allat, Aluzza and Manat, whereas in fact, the commoners, while serving/worshiping these deities were actually serving their chiefs (jinn).

Here is how the above statement needs to be modified to bring it in line with the observations you made about Chapter 53 and 3440-41

They were "jinn" created and maintained by the chiefs (the jinn) to subject the commoners.
The chiefs (jinn) made the commoners believe they served/worshipped the controllers, Allat, Aluzza and Manat, whereas in fact, the commoners, while serving/worshiping these deities were actually serving "jinn" created by their chiefs (jinn).

The "jinn" is something created by the chiefs NOT the chiefs themselves. This is confirmed by 2917 where Ibrahim describes a similar situation

2917. But what you serve other than The God are idols and you create falsehood. What you serve other than The God do not control for you any sustenance, therefore seek the sustenance at the God and serve Him and be grateful to Him; to Him you shall be returned.

You may know that the scene of chiefs having control over commoners is omnipresent in the Quran. In addition, another trick used by the chiefs to maintain control over the commoners was to erect a language barrier. Does it not sound familiar to you ?

The question is how do the chiefs have control over commoners. A language barrier is erected to keep people away from the truth. The chiefs maintain control over people by creating falsehood. How do people create things? It is by using their imagination/fantasy. This "creativity" is what is described in 2917, 6112, etc.

Another link to 3440-41 and Chapter 53 is in 4117 where we are told on the one hand that the idolaters don't call upon except females and on the other hand they don't call upon except one exceeding the limits who decorates. At first glance the two statements seem contradictory. The only way to reconcile them is is the females (Allat, Al3uzza and Manat) and the one exceeding the limits who decorates are the same. Allat, Al3uzza and Manat are fantasies produced by an imagination that is exceeding the limits and creatively decorates falsehood.

In passages such as 3130 and 2262 we are told that what they are calling upon is false. Of course something that is false is not real.

This is further confirmed by 2942 where we are told that what the idolaters call upon is in fact "nothing", i.e. it is not real.

The chiefs are certainly real. It is the fantasies of the chiefs that are not real. So in the case of chiefs (ins), it is the chiefs' fantasies (jinn) that people are serving. So you are close.

It is the interaction between the humans (ins) and their fantasies (jinn) that produces falsehood. There is no other way that falsehood can be produced.

Peace,

Ayman

[wildguest1956]

Peace JM,

Peace Ayman

I never said that Allat, Aluzza and Manat were leaders.

I never said that you said that. We agree that Allat, Aluzza and Manat are not leaders.

OK

We also agree that Allat, Aluzza and Manat are "jinn" (as per Chapter 53 and 34;40-41).

No, we don?t agree on that. It is your opinion, not mine.

They were idols created and maintained by the chiefs (the jinn) to subject the commoners.
The chiefs (jinn) made the commoners believe they served/worshipped Allat, Aluzza and Manat, whereas in fact, the commoners, while serving/worshiping these deities were actually serving their chiefs (jinn).

Here is how the above statement needs to be modified to bring it in line with the observations you made about Chapter 53 and 3440-41

They were "jinn" created and maintained by the chiefs (the jinn) to subject the commoners.
The chiefs (jinn) made the commoners believe they served/worshipped the controllers, Allat, Aluzza and Manat, whereas in fact, the commoners, while serving/worshiping these deities were actually serving "jinn" created by their chiefs (jinn).

The "jinn" is something created by the chiefs NOT the chiefs themselves. This is confirmed by 2917 where Ibrahim describes a similar situation

2917. But what you serve other than The God are idols and you create falsehood. What you serve other than The God do not control for you any sustenance, therefore seek the sustenance at the God and serve Him and be grateful to Him; to Him you shall be returned.

This verse says that the idols/statues (awthanan) the people of Abraham worshipped had no power. But it does not says anything about the jinn.

You may know that the scene of chiefs having control over commoners is omnipresent in the Quran. In addition, another trick used by the chiefs to maintain control over the commoners was to erect a language barrier. Does it not sound familiar to you ?

The question is how do the chiefs have control over commoners. A language barrier is erected to keep people away from the truth. The chiefs maintain control over people by creating falsehood. How do people create things? It is by using their imagination/fantasy. This "creativity" is what is described in 2917, 6112, etc.

You can find many verses in the quran where it is said that the commoners serve (give ibadah to) their leaders, making them partners of God.
See http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5787.0

Another one

The Jews said ?Ezra is God?s son,? and the Nazarenes said ?The Messiah is God?s son.? Such is their utterances with their mouths, they imitate the sayings of those who rejected before them. God will fight them. They are deluded from the truth! They took their Priests and Monks to be patrons besides God, and the Messiah son of Mary, while they were only commanded to serve One god, there is no god but He, be He glorified for what they set up.

The story in is but another example of this pattern The chiefs fabricate idols for the commoners. The commoners, while serving their idols, are actually serving their chiefs.

Here are some proofs that the jinn cannot be fantasies

?And there were men from among the ins who used to seek help from the men among the Jinn, but they only helped increase them in sin.?

In these verse, it is crystal clear that the jinn are the leaders who help/protect the commnoers, and give them false beliefs (increasing them in sin).
Look at the expression rijalin mina aljinni. Does ?men among the fantasies? make sense ?
Obviously not. It makes no more sense than ?men among the genies?.

And We have committed to Hell many Jinn and ins; they had hearts with which they did not comprehend, and they had eyes with which they did not see, and they had ears with which they did not hear. They are like cattle; no, they are even more astray. These are the unaware ones.

A fantasy has not a heart, it has not eyes nor ears.

?O you tribes of Jinn and ins, did not messengers come to you from amongst you and relate to you My revelations, and warn you of the meeting of this Day?? They said ?Yes, we bear witness upon ourselves;? and the worldly life deceived them, and they bore witness on themselves that they were rejecters.

Here, we lean that the jinn and the ins belong to the same community (mashar). It makes sense only if we consider the jinn are human beings.

On that Day, no more questioning is asked of ins or Jinn as to his sins.

Can a fantasy commit sins ?

Except whom your Lord has mercy upon; and for that He has created them. And the word of your Lord came true ?I will fill Hell with the Jinn and the ins together!?

Can a fantasy go to hell ?

A powerful being from among the jinn said ?I will bring it to you before you rise from your station. For I am strong and trustworthy.?

How can a fantasy say something ?

Manifestly, the translation of the word jinn by "fantasy" "can fit only in . In the other verses, it leads to meaningless statements.

Peace

[ayman]

Peace JM,

We also agree that Allat, Aluzza and Manat are "jinn" (as per Chapter 53 and 34;40-41).

No, we don?t agree on that. It is your opinion, not mine.

So what is your point about bringing up Chapter 53 and 3440-41. Nowhere in those passages are "leaders" mentioned or alluded to.

2917. But what you serve other than The God are idols and you create falsehood. What you serve other than The God do not control for you any sustenance, therefore seek the sustenance at the God and serve Him and be grateful to Him; to Him you shall be returned.

This verse says that the idols/statues (awthanan) the people of Abraham worshipped had no power. But it does not says anything about the jinn.

It says that those "awathan" (idols, like Allat, Al3uzza and Manat) that people served are not controllers (do not control) exactly like 3440-41. So the question arises, if they are not controllers, then what are they? They are "jinn"/fantasies.

You can find many verses in the quran where it is said that the commoners serve (give ibadah to) their leaders, making them partners of God.
See http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5787.0
Another one
The Jews said ?Ezra is God?s son,? and the Nazarenes said ?The Messiah is God?s son.? Such is their utterances with their mouths, they imitate the sayings of those who rejected before them. God will fight them. They are deluded from the truth! They took their Priests and Monks to be patrons besides God, and the Messiah son of Mary, while they were only commanded to serve One god, there is no god but He, be He glorified for what they set up.

The problem here is not with "leaders". There is nothing inherently wrong with "leaders". The problem is with the people taking leaders, Jesus, or whoever as lords besides The God. The question is why do they do it? Because they have faith in the fantasies that they and/or their leaders imagined. So the leader to them is not a regular human (reality) but is a supernatural savior (a fantasy).

But according to you, "jinn" are leaders. So I guess I am a "jinn" because I am a leader of my company while the janitor may not be. Now 930-31 is interesting because it talks about people taking Jesus with the religious leaders as lords. Now certainly Jesus as well as many saints that people serve are dead so now you have a dead "jinn" misguiding people. How can that be? It is of course impossible. However, the fantasy about Jesus being the son of god is still going.

The story in is but another example of this pattern The chiefs fabricate idols for the commoners. The commoners, while serving their idols, are actually serving their chiefs.

It is clear from the passage that they are serving their idols but there is nothing in there about serving the real chiefs. The real chiefs are just regular humans. However, you are right that they may serve "imagined" supernatural chiefs.

Here are some proofs that the jinn cannot be fantasies
?And there were men from among the ins who used to seek help from the men among the Jinn, but they only helped increase them in sin.?
In these verse, it is crystal clear that the jinn are the leaders who help/protect the commnoers, and give them false beliefs (increasing them in sin).
Look at the expression rijalin mina aljinni. Does ?men among the fantasies? make sense ?
Obviously not. It makes no more sense than ?men among the genies?.

Of course, men from the fantasies are not real but we know for certian that they occur. Have you ever heard of people who have an imaginary friend? I personally know a few people who take such friends. People who seek help from such imaginary men are certainly not going to be better off.

And We have committed to Hell many Jinn and ins; they had hearts with which they did not comprehend, and they had eyes with which they did not see, and they had ears with which they did not hear. They are like cattle; no, they are even more astray. These are the unaware ones.
A fantasy has not a heart, it has not eyes nor ears.

The passage talks about the "jinn" and "ins" together have a heart, eyes and ears. Do you think with your heart or with your mind? Think about it. Why do people say that artists (imaginative people) think with their hearts?

?O you tribes of Jinn and ins, did not messengers come to you from amongst you and relate to you My revelations, and warn you of the meeting of this Day?? They said ?Yes, we bear witness upon ourselves;? and the worldly life deceived them, and they bore witness on themselves that they were rejecters.
Here, we lean that the jinn and the ins belong to the same community (mashar). It makes sense only if we consider the jinn are human beings.

The word "ma3shar" means "consorts", i.e. living closely together all the time. Do you have a human leader with you all the time wherever you go? If you don't remember The God do you have an exceeding the limit leader attached to you everywhere, in your bed, while showering and at work as per 4336-38?

On that Day, no more questioning is asked of ins or Jinn as to his sins.
Can a fantasy commit sins ?

Yes. Fantasies sin all the time. In fact, fantasies sin is what drives people to sin. A thief fantasize about getting money easily and spending it on bad things before he or she actually steals. An adulterer fantasizes about illicit sex before he or she actually commits it. Do you think that such fantasies are hidden from The God? Do you think that people will not be accountable for what they fantasize. No, there is nothing, including our deepest fantasies, that is hidden from The God.

Except whom your Lord has mercy upon; and for that He has created them. And the word of your Lord came true ?I will fill Hell with the Jinn and the ins together!?
Can a fantasy go to hell ?

Yes. We are told that "jinn"/fantasies are the fuel of hell. This means that hell is the worst thing imaginable.

A powerful being from among the jinn said ?I will bring it to you before you rise from your station. For I am strong and trustworthy.?
How can a fantasy say something ?

How can anything that our imagination creates say and bring anything? How can an airplane (the product of the imagination of engineers) fly and bring us cargo? How can the imagination of the engineers say "I will create a plane that travels at the speed of sound"? It is an indisputable fact that all the technology that we have is a result of our imagination/fantasy.

Manifestly, the translation of the word jinn by "fantasy" "can fit only in . In the other verses, it leads to meaningless statements.

As I demonstrated "jinn" as fantasy fits everywhere the word is used. I would appreciate it if you find other occurrences where it may not.

Peace,

Ayman