IS-LAM, HIS-LAM and MIS-LAM
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Why has it taken you 1097 posts to figure out that truth hurts truth? Or are you still living and dreaming in ancient-land and not in reality? Perhaps you need to call upon Scottie to ?beam-you-up? back in time since you (the Mislam) are having trouble understanding your alleged Allah?s words and making a mockery out of HIM.
I asked you some simple questions which you've been unable to answer. For you to be utterly defeated by such basic questions is not such a surprise.
Also for your information you might want to review the following regarding "knight's move thinking" which your reply is an example of...
Knight's Move Thinking
This is a thought disorder denoting a lack of connection between ideas. Links between ideas may be illogical or the speech/writing may wander between trains of thought.
The illogicality of the loosening of associations is found in schizophrenia. Loosening of associations is also called knight's move thinking. The move of the knight in chess is used as a metaphor for the unexpected, and illogical, connections between ideas.
....
In psychiatry, thought disorder or formal thought disorder is a term used to describe a pattern of disordered language use that is presumed to reflect disordered thinking. It is usually considered a symptom of psychotic mental illness although occasionally appears in other conditions. It is also known as Knight's Move Thinking referring to the nonlinear way a knight moves in chess.
It describes a persistent underlying disturbance to conscious thought and is classified largely by its effects on speech and writing. Affected persons may show pressure of speech (speaking incessantly and quickly), derailment or flight of ideas (switching topic mid-sentence or inappropriately), thought blocking, rhyming, punning, or 'word salad' when individual words may be intact but speech is incoherent.
Well, if you were clever enough, you would have researched and studied my previous 1196 posts before venting it out. It displays your lack of proper 'forum schooling', not alone Quran.
I think the only one venting is you. You're finding it hard, holding back a great deal of animosity.
If you think you are so right, then why not put forward what you believe the truth is instead of acting in a self-destructive and cowardly fashion like you are?
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Why has it taken you 1097 posts to figure out that truth hurts truth? Or are you still living and dreaming in ancient-land and not in reality? Perhaps you need to call upon Scottie to ?beam-you-up? back in time since you (the Mislam) are having trouble understanding your alleged Allah?s words and making a mockery out of HIM.
I asked you some simple questions which you've been unable to answer. For you to be utterly defeated by such basic questions is not such a surprise.
Also for your information you might want to review the following regarding "knight's move thinking" which your reply is an example of...
Knight's Move Thinking
This is a thought disorder denoting a lack of connection between ideas. Links between ideas may be illogical or the speech/writing may wander between trains of thought.
The illogicality of the loosening of associations is found in schizophrenia. Loosening of associations is also called knight's move thinking. The move of the knight in chess is used as a metaphor for the unexpected, and illogical, connections between ideas.
....
In psychiatry, thought disorder or formal thought disorder is a term used to describe a pattern of disordered language use that is presumed to reflect disordered thinking. It is usually considered a symptom of psychotic mental illness although occasionally appears in other conditions. It is also known as Knight's Move Thinking referring to the nonlinear way a knight moves in chess.
It describes a persistent underlying disturbance to conscious thought and is classified largely by its effects on speech and writing. Affected persons may show pressure of speech (speaking incessantly and quickly), derailment or flight of ideas (switching topic mid-sentence or inappropriately), thought blocking, rhyming, punning, or 'word salad' when individual words may be intact but speech is incoherent.
Well, if you were clever enough, you would have researched and studied my previous 1196 posts before venting it out. It displays your lack of proper 'forum schooling', not alone Quran.
I think the only one venting is you. You're finding it hard, holding back a great deal of animosity.
If you think you are so right, then why not put forward what you believe the truth is instead of acting in a self-destructive and cowardly fashion like you are?
I have already said what I believe the truth is many a time. Did you read and understand my first post above and the rest of the recent ones just blindfoldedly or what? Do I need to become repetitious and inconsistent like the quran to spell it out for you or are you plainly thickheaded?
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I have already said what I believe the truth is many a time. Did you read and understand my first post above and the rest of the recent ones just blindfoldedly or what? Do I need to become repetitious and inconsistent like the quran to spell it out for you or are you plainly thickheaded?
Seeing from the Quranic (as understood above), the Allah (concept of GOD) and as well as from an historical/ancient point of view (origination of Islam), any major translation of specific words becomes superfluous and absurd, and hence the difficulty and confusion arising from understanding the true nature of Quran in which it speaks.
The sentence is so poorly constructed that it is meaningless. You're writing "word salad" style. In fact it's so incoherent that I cannot reconcile what I read above with posts that I remember from you.
Are you drunk or have you had a stroke lately?
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Peace Danish,
It seems that there has been some change in your mind when it has been proved to you that the pig is forbidden to eat in the Quran.
Can you confirm?Peace
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It seems that there has been some change in your mind when it has been proved to you that the pig is forbidden to eat in the Quran.
Can you confirm?The change comes from transcending and elevating my "SELF". As far as the pig is concerned, who is actually forbidding it; a deity named Allah, Muhammad, a poet or someone who has extreme hatred for intelligent animals for pigs?
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It seems that there has been some change in your mind when it has been proved to you that the pig is forbidden to eat in the Quran.
Can you confirm?The change comes from transcending and elevating my "SELF". As far as the pig is concerned, who is actually forbidding it; a deity named Allah, Muhammad, a poet or someone who has extreme hatred for intelligent animals for pigs?
Are we going to read you soon on www.faithfreedom.org ?
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salams all,
Danish, your remarks quite frankly are a good example of bigotry. There is a fine line between disagreement and discrimination, and it would appear to me that you have crossed that line.
I would request the moderators to, at the very least, view this as a strike 1 for Danish. His comments are bordering along the lines of our other recently banned member apple pie, who finally attempted to "prove" that Muslims worship the devil. Saying Islam is an "idol-worshipping religion" is in my mind, going along that same path. It's a completely ridiculous and very insulting statement. I don't know if you follow a religion or not, but a basic teaching in any religion and any etiquette is control of the tongue.
Ignoring that outburst, to answer the original question of why it could be that Allah would allow his previous revelations to be corrupted, I'll let whoever is interested research it further but I will paraphrase a basic explanation.
Mankind was obviously not born into a sophisticated society. It started at a very primative stage, as far as we can tell they followed simple rules and had very simple lives, e.g. hunter gatherers. Eventually as the science of agriculture became more widespread and villages began to be formed with stable families and tribes, society became more sophisticated. Eventually these small villages would go on to form cities and nations and then eventually these nations would meet and clash with each other. Each of these steps in society had their own unique challenges and circumstances, and each nation had its messenger sent from Allah with guidance/scripture. These guidances helped to move mankind in the proper direction for the development of society and mankind at large. Think of it as a sculptor who chips away at the marble, slowly shaping it with each strike.
So for a great period of time, these guidances were basically circumstancial and temporary, not meant to be permanent. They were for a specific society for a specific time, and the reason it was done this way was to slowly guide mankind towards the point where society reached enough sophistication and understanding to receive the full and final message. Once that stage was achieved, that message was to be preserved for all people for all time. That message (i.e. Quran) also encompassed many previous teachings but also has teachings beyond the previous ones.
The above should provide a basic framework to understand the real idea behind abrogation. I'll leave it to whoever is interested to research the matter further.
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It seems that there has been some change in your mind when it has been proved to you that the pig is forbidden to eat in the Quran.
Can you confirm?The change comes from transcending and elevating my "SELF". As far as the pig is concerned, who is actually forbidding it; a deity named Allah, Muhammad, a poet or someone who has extreme hatred for intelligent animals for pigs?
Are we going to read you soon on www.faithfreedom.org ?
Are you unable to answer my question or unable to understand the fascism of Islam?
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salams all,
Danish, your remarks quite frankly are a good example of bigotry. There is a fine line between disagreement and discrimination, and it would appear to me that you have crossed that line.
I would request the moderators to, at the very least, view this as a strike 1 for Danish. His comments are bordering along the lines of our other recently banned member apple pie, who finally attempted to "prove" that Muslims worship the devil. Saying Islam is an "idol-worshipping religion" is in my mind, going along that same path. It's a completely ridiculous and very insulting statement. I don't know if you follow a religion or not, but a basic teaching in any religion and any etiquette is control of the tongue.
Ignoring that outburst, to answer the original question of why it could be that Allah would allow his previous revelations to be corrupted, I'll let whoever is interested research it further but I will paraphrase a basic explanation.
Mankind was obviously not born into a sophisticated society. It started at a very primative stage, as far as we can tell they followed simple rules and had very simple lives, e.g. hunter gatherers. Eventually as the science of agriculture became more widespread and villages began to be formed with stable families and tribes, society became more sophisticated. Eventually these small villages would go on to form cities and nations and then eventually these nations would meet and clash with each other. Each of these steps in society had their own unique challenges and circumstances, and each nation had its messenger sent from Allah with guidance/scripture. These guidances helped to move mankind in the proper direction for the development of society and mankind at large. Think of it as a sculptor who chips away at the marble, slowly shaping it with each strike.
So for a great period of time, these guidances were basically circumstancial and temporary, not meant to be permanent. They were for a specific society for a specific time, and the reason it was done this way was to slowly guide mankind towards the point where society reached enough sophistication and understanding to receive the full and final message. Once that stage was achieved, that message was to be preserved for all people for all time. That message (i.e. Quran) also encompassed many previous teachings but also has teachings beyond the previous ones.
The above should provide a basic framework to understand the real idea behind abrogation. I'll leave it to whoever is interested to research the matter further.
Listen Shuaib, before you start sprinkling around your holier than thou zam-zam words, get your facts straight. You want to discuss matters pertaining to Allah, Islam, Muhammad and Quran for which this discussion forum is mainly generated with special coverages and forum rules or are you interested on personal bickering. Read my prior post to JM.
edited And don't forget that your own brethren call other sincere believers as devils, evil doers, jinn possessed, quran bashers, shaitaan. This is the height of what your book teaches you in the name of Allah.
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danish,
this has nothing to do with my being any better than you, rather it is a demand that you observe some basic respect. It is not personal bickering to ask you to treat Islam and Muslims with a basic level of respect that ANYONE deserves.
You would have more of a leg to stand on if your comment wasn't so outrageously ridiculous and inflammatory.
As far as my "brethren" who are concerned about damning/blaming other Muslims, if I see that happen I would speak out against that as well... don't take Muslim on Muslim bashing as a free-pass for you to bash Islam as a whole. There is a fine line between disagreement and bigotry/discrimination, and you have crossed that line.
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Peace Danish,
If you want to discuss, please do so in a polite manner and choose a particular subject. Going around on different threads/sections and bringing down what you think is 'islam' is not doing anyone any favours. Thanks.
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I must say that I'm impressed by how the "karma" system on the new forum software has aided the exposition of hypocrites and enemies.
In the older software the 'vibe' that people were giving out was not nearly as well measured or known to everyone.
I honestly think that people like Danish who are the owners of "sinking ships" in the karma stakes start to become self-destructive as they realise that their comments are not appreciated.
I predict that he'll just continue on this venomous course until his game is played out. There's no use in paddling a sinking ship and it's going down quickly. Take these posts as his last ditch attempt to disrupt the forum as much as possible. We've witnessed it many times before, and I applaud (no pun intended) the karma system for weeding him out.
Peace.
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Peace Danish,
It seems that there has been some change in your mind when it has been proved to you that the pig is forbidden to eat in the Quran.
Can you confirm?Peace
Can you point out the threads where this occurred?
I recall "dhulqarnain" having the same views. Interestingly it seems as if "dhulqarnain" and "Danish" appeared on the scene at about the same time - and corresponded much. Also it appears that Danish was heavily into promoting a so called "Aidid Safar" and his theories on this forum. The same was true for "dhulqarnain". It also appears that out of all the members on this forum these two were at that time in email contact with the certain "Aidid Safar".
It would not surprise me in the least if there was some underlying collusion between these people. The style of writing of the present Danish isn't exactly what I remember it to be. If there was a defeat in the "pig issue" which "dhulqarnain" was also interestingly a strong agonist of - I would not be surprised if the account might have been shared or given away.
One of them might even be "Aidid Safar". Needless to say they both failed, and their new incarnations will continue to fail. Everything is exposed eventualy. It's the God's system that it is so.
Regards.
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Peace Danish
You will have to defend your primary points in post #1 or this thread will be done with. The rules must be adhered to. Thanks.
Joe
Peace Joe,
No worries whatsoever. If you notice that my first post is defined and self explanatory and none has come forward to question or discuss them out. This thread has nothing to do with quranic divinity but rather translation and transliterate exercises by variants of Islam for which it was intended, hence the question of transfer from general section by Nadia. The replies puffed out by other members are nothing but personal attacks and diversionary, disappointedly infiltrated. It seems that the member 'truth's' aorta got struck by lightning and flushed part of his heart out. Why haven't they been warned or their unprecended posts removed as per forum rule? What happened to the manners and respect talked about with such prejudice or is it becoming a political norm of finger-pointing and favoritism when the onus of defending gets unbearable and shifted to bar one out. Dam if you do, dam if you don't is the justice and rule of this forum by certain 'elite'.
I shall answer to shuaib's post soon.
edit and by the way, isn't this section (Quranic divinity) created for its purpose, so what's the fuss about.
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This thread has nothing to do with quranic divinity but rather translation and transliterate exercises by variants of Islam for which it was intended, hence the question of transfer from general section by Nadia.
Ah I see, so the quotes below have nothing to do with divinity of the quran...
QURAN ? a mixture of folklore, poetry, events/circumstances, tales of pre-Islamic history, Muhammad?s written and oral narrative ideologies, inscriptions, etc., all collected and compiled together in a mumbo jumbo fashion (repetitions, incomplete sentences, inconsistencies, contradictions, ?irregular narrative compilation?, merciful vs merciless and widom vs ignorant sentences, hell vs heaven, the do as I say or else, recall this and that, remember this and that, he/she said this and that, and so forth) by several men and later given a ?touch of essence? (chaptering, numbering, dialectal, grammatical and titling) in its current form, rejuvinating to become the BEST HADITH. Such is the GOD of Islam, Hislam amd Mislam.
Seeing from the Quranic (as understood above), the Allah (concept of GOD) and as well as from an historical/ancient point of view (origination of Islam), any major translation of specific words becomes superfluous and absurd, and hence the difficulty and confusion arising from understanding the true nature of Quran in which it speaks.
The true nature of quran being? Is the 'true nature' /'divinity' being questioned or statements made about it? I'm amazed that one could think the first post has nothing to do with the divinity of the quran.
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This thread has nothing to do with quranic divinity but rather translation and transliterate exercises by variants of Islam for which it was intended, hence the question of transfer from general section by Nadia.
Ah I see, so the quotes below have nothing to do with divinity of the quran...
QURAN ? a mixture of folklore, poetry, events/circumstances, tales of pre-Islamic history, Muhammad?s written and oral narrative ideologies, inscriptions, etc., all collected and compiled together in a mumbo jumbo fashion (repetitions, incomplete sentences, inconsistencies, contradictions, ?irregular narrative compilation?, merciful vs merciless and widom vs ignorant sentences, hell vs heaven, the do as I say or else, recall this and that, remember this and that, he/she said this and that, and so forth) by several men and later given a ?touch of essence? (chaptering, numbering, dialectal, grammatical and titling) in its current form, rejuvinating to become the BEST HADITH. Such is the GOD of Islam, Hislam amd Mislam.
Seeing from the Quranic (as understood above), the Allah (concept of GOD) and as well as from an historical/ancient point of view (origination of Islam), any major translation of specific words becomes superfluous and absurd, and hence the difficulty and confusion arising from understanding the true nature of Quran in which it speaks.
The true nature of quran being? Is the 'true nature' /'divinity' being questioned or statements made about it? I'm amazed that one could think the first post has nothing to do with the divinity of the quran.
The quotes specifies what's contained within the Quran, thus the misunderstanding of interpretations, as is the fact throughtout the Muslim world. And why have ignored the rest of my post?
I've got to leave now and shall be back later.
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The quotes specifies what's contained within the Quran, thus the misunderstanding of interpretations, as is the fact throughtout the Muslim world. And why have ignored the rest of my post?
The quote specifies the nature of the quran/what is contained in it according to you and makes statements about it thus bringing into question it's divinity. I don't need to address the 'rest' of your post.
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Peace Danish,
IS-LAM ? the pagan dogmatic idolworshipping religion orignially bought about by Muhammad in its own historic ancient time via man-made deities.
OK. Except we don't know who Muhammad (or if that really was his name) was and the only thing we have from him is the Quran. So judge his message based on that.
HIS-LAM ? the pagan dogmatic idolworshipping religon conveniently bought about by the bifurcated Sunni/Shia long after the death of Muhammad (a self made deity).
conveniently? and how was Muhammad a self made deity? please explain.
MIS-LAM ? the newly innovated dogmatic idolworshipping system currently bought about by the confusionists of Islam via missing-in-action and transformation of original words of a deity named ?Allah?.
Please explain who these Mislamic people are and why their system is dogmatic and idolworshipping.
And explain what you mean by "missing in action" and "transformation."QURAN ? a mixture of folklore, poetry, events/circumstances, tales of pre-Islamic history, Muhammad?s written and oral narrative ideologies, inscriptions, etc., all collected and compiled together in a mumbo jumbo fashion (repetitions, incomplete sentences, inconsistencies, contradictions, ?irregular narrative compilation?, merciful vs merciless and widom vs ignorant sentences, hell vs heaven, the do as I say or else, recall this and that, remember this and that, he/she said this and that, and so forth) by several men and later given a ?touch of essence? (chaptering, numbering, dialectal, grammatical and titling) in its current form, rejuvinating to become the BEST HADITH. Such is the GOD of Islam, Hislam and Mislam.
OK. But maybe there is some guidance to be found in this book? Many here, including myself, have found guidance in it. Even the ones who doubt that it's really that great of a book.
You don't have any evidence of how it was compiled. And it shouldn't matter. Judge the book by it's content, not by it's history.
As for the content, maybe all that folklore, poetry, events, tales of pre Islamic history, Muhammad's ideologies, and inscriptions are there for a reason.
and If you wouldn't mind, provide us with an example of inconsistencies.Seeing from the Quranic (as understood above), the Allah (concept of GOD) and as well as from an historical/ancient point of view (origination of Islam), any major translation of specific words becomes superfluous and absurd, and hence the difficulty and confusion arising from understanding the true nature of Quran in which it speaks.
can I have an example, please?
Also, I wouldn't trust Islamic history so much. And I wouldn't judge people's beliefs by what happened in the past. I like the present.
peace