A childless future
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Peace Heart,
I don't believe this issue is addressed in the way you've described. Further, I've noticed no ayah that says one must have children. On the contrary, the qur'an addresses those who don't/didn't have children in Surah 4, regarding how a person's possessions should be dispersed after death...
412 And for you is half of what your wives leave behind if they have no children;
Peace,
Tay -
Salam Heart,
Salam,
What does Quran say about deliberatly choosing to not have any kids? Like by choosing for sterilization and castration.
Please support your answer with some surahs. Thanks in advance.
Greetings,
Heart
My understanding of the issue you raised in the light of the Quran is that we are not "commanded" as such to have children although most of the schools of thought would consider sex by definition to be only a mean to produce children based on their understanding of verse 2223 (my understanding of this verse is different but I leave it up to you to come up with your own understanding). Having said that, I would clearly differentiate between the choice of not having children and how to implement that choice, in other words, the means used since you mentioned castration and sterilization. While the first may be allowed, the second may not and I explain I would consider castration, sterilization or any radical modification to our body organs functions ON A VOLUNTARY BASIS to be an alteration to the creation of the All-Mighty and thus is a work of Satan based on verse 4119.
And God the All-Mighty knows best.
Peace. Myr. -
I agree with Myr. One can choose to not have children, but to go as far as castrating or sterilization sounds extreme. I mean, are these processes reversible? What if one changes his/her mind years later? ???
Peace
PS - Best day of my life?... when my first son was born. )
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Salam,
Thank you all for your responses.
I agree that it's indeed an alteration to the creation of God. Most of the time it isn't reverseable either. It is possible though! I read something about vasovasostomy for men, but it has it's cons. (http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasovasostomy)
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Peace all,
I agree with Myr. One can choose to not have children, but to go as far as castrating or sterilization sounds extreme. I mean, are these processes reversible? What if one changes his/her mind years later?
I have a personal story on this. My exhusband didn't want any more kids after our daughter (he was older than me and already had kids from a first marriage). I still wanted other kids. Discussions were hot, until i just told him, i want a child and i'll now stop the pill. If you don't want any, do what you have to do in order not to have any....I even proosed that he have a vasectomy and his answer was " you cant expect this from an arab" rotfl
Anyway i got pregnant with my son and he talked about having an abortion...well, this was the beginning of the end of our marriage...
The crazy thing is that today, our son is the apple of his eye !Why do i tell you this ? Just in order to say that one should assume the choices one makes and be responsible for them - not expect others to do it for them... I'm 40 now, don't really want any more children. If i got pregnant, i would keep it as i don't accept abortion, but for sure, after delivery i would get sterilized! Enough is enough.
Peace,lk
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Salamun alaykum all,
I agree with Myr.
Btw, I really don't understand if somebody chooses not to have kids (even though there is no direct prohibition in quran for that - CMIIW please). I personally like kids and would like to have kids in the future (well I have to find their mother first LOL). Please don't feel offended if anyone of you here is deliberately choosing not to have kids (I am just wondering).
Even in quran, having kids is mentioned as one of the comfort of the life in this world which is made beautiful for mankind.
314 Beautified for mankind is love of the joys (that come) from women and offspring; and stored-up heaps of gold and silver, and horses branded (with their mark), and cattle and land. That is comfort of the life of the world. Allah! With Him is a more excellent abode.
Little OOT Do horses branded = cars?
Wassalam,
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Salamun alaykum all,
I agree with Myr.
Btw, I really don't understand if somebody chooses not to have kids (even though there is no direct prohibition in quran for that - CMIIW please). I personally like kids and would like to have kids in the future (well I have to find their mother first LOL). Please don't feel offended if anyone of you here is deliberately choosing not to have kids (I am just wondering).
Even in quran, having kids is mentioned as one of the comfort of the life in this world which is made beautiful for mankind.
314 Beautified for mankind is love of the joys (that come) from women and offspring; and stored-up heaps of gold and silver, and horses branded (with their mark), and cattle and land. That is comfort of the life of the world. Allah! With Him is a more excellent abode.
Little OOT Do horses branded = cars?
Wassalam,
Salam,
I also can't understand why people choose to have a childless life. I myself choose to not have any kids of my own, but want to adopt them. I love children.
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consumation of the sex with contraception seems to me very much alike to the drinking a delicous drink while having tracheostomy that drains that drink away from one's stomach.
it maybe allowed or 'halal' but why should anyone do something that irrational
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Peace,
Why is it a 'gross alteration' ? and where did you drive this conclusion from?
Because we are responsible for the things we know. We know how procreation works, so we are responsible for it. If it is better to not take unlimited children in a society, then we are obliged to use our knowledge and choose the best approach at that moment in time. So using certain methods to limit the procreation is even an obligation in my eyes. You are responsible for your happiness. In the society i live in now, i cannot have 6 children and be happy. 2 or 3 is the limit to give myself and them a good future, because you need to plan college and so on...
3918 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.
And why certain people don't want this? Because humans are not animals that have a dire need to pass on their genes. Why is it important to have children of your own? If you cannot understand why some people choose not to have children, but choose only to adopt, then it means people are stuck behind their animal instainct of passing on their own genes. Children have an 80% bigger chance to get killed by their steph-parents then by their normal parents. Because people don't understand how to overcome their animal-instinct of erasing anything that is not of their own genes.
I believe with adam we have gone beyond that instinct....
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Salam,
How about the thousands of orphans all over the world who don't have anyone and live in orphanages? I find it selfish to bare children while there are thousands of children out there who don't receive love and affection. I don't think God forces me to have children of my own. With all due respect to the ones who do choose to have children, but I don't feel it that way. It's just not for me, because why should I give birth, while there are thousands of children who pray for someone to call mom or dad. Who need to feel loved.
I first got a guilty conscious because I thought I was doing the wrong thing. I thought I was blocking Gods work, but that's not true. I'm blocking the human instinct of passing on the genes. I think I'm helping the world by doing this and thank God I'm not the only one who thinks this way.
peace
Heart
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Salamun alaykum Heart,
Salam,
I also can't understand why people choose to have a childless life. I myself choose to not have any kids of my own, but want to adopt them. I love children.
If you don't mind sis, may I know what your husband says regarding your choice?
Wassalam,
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Salam Andy,
I'm single at the moment, so I don't have a partner.
peace
Heart
If you're anything like your avatar then I'd be surprised if this remained the case for very long.
Joking aside, I think that choosing to remain childless in a marriage is problematic.
The reason I say this stems from my view on sexuality. Others might divide sexuality into hetero- and homo- types for example, and it won't be lost on you that male-male couples are by nature childless.
I see sexuality as being of only one type - reproductive. There is only one reason for sexuality ie. male female dichotomy to exist and that is for the purpose of reproduction. That is the fundamental reason.
Other forms of sexual activity are not reproductive but rather sensual. They take the side effects of sexuality - ie. the feelings of pleasure etc. and exploit those for their own sake. So male female couples who use contraception or surgically disable their reproduction are taking the pleasure of the activity alone; people who masturbate are again divorcing this relationship between pleasure and reproduction; as are homo male-male or female-female couples.
So when people talk about sexuality they are actually talking about sensuality - not reproductive sexuality at all.
You are therefore wondering whether a life of pure sensuality is permissible. The answer is that nothing can stop you from taking that path; it is dependent on your choice.
Consider
227 who violate GOD's covenant after pledging to uphold it, sever what GOD has commanded to be joined, and commit evil. These are the losers.
Allatheena yanqudoona AAahda Allahi min baAAdi meethaqihi wayaqtaAAoona ma amara Allahu bihi an yoosala wayufsidoona fee al-ardi ola-ika humu alkhasiroona
Those who cut or sever what the God has commanded to be joined. So the deliberate separation of pleasure from the underlying reproduction might be understood to fall into this category. Note in the following...
2928 Lot said to his people, "You commit such an abomination, no one in the world has ever done it before you.
Walootan ith qala liqawmihi innakum lata/toona alfahishata ma sabaqakum biha min ahadin mina alAAalameena2929 "You practice sex with the men, you cut off the way, and you allow all kinds of vice in your society." The only response from his people was to say, "Bring to us GOD's retribution, if you are truthful."
A-innakum lata/toona alrrijala wataqtaAAoona alssabeela wata/toona fee nadeekumu almunkara fama kana jawaba qawmihi illa an qaloo i/tina biAAathabi Allahi in kunta mina alssadiqeenaBy enjoying the sensual pleasure in a homoerotic fashion these men are obviously not able to reproduce which is hinted to be the raison d'etre for the pleasure. They cut the way of reproduction.
It is also clear that the God has the role of deciding upon who will be sterile in relationships.
4250 Or, He may have the males and the females marry each other, then render whomever He wills sterile. He is Omniscient, Omnipotent.
Just some things for you to consider. All forms of harvesting only the pleasure ie. bald sensuality, are wrong. 2223 shows that the women in a marriage are the 'tilth' or the 'soil for cultivation or receiving seed' and that sexuality with them must be righteous/balanced and follow the underlying principle of reproduction and not be purely for sensuality alone.
Therefore your question of whether you ought to be able to enjoy male-female contact for sensuality alone is shown to be unrighteous. That cutting the way of reproduction completely and deliberately is unrighteous. Balance and righteousness must be kept in mind, and pure sensuality must be shunned.
Why couldn't you adopt a child without being married if that's what your aim is?
Regards.
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Peace truth
i must admit that your post is logic and as such makes sense.
But do you consider pleasure to be sinful ? Reading your post these old nightgowns with a slit in the middle and the inscription "god wants it" comes to my mind. And if one follows you're reasoning, at least the way i understand it, if a couples sterility is established, two possibiliteis are left to live together in a chaste manner and may be 'adopt', or to divorce, letting the sterile one live alone and the other one search for a non sterile partner.
To tell you the truth - i consider the pleasure derived from a loving relationship a gift from god. What do you think ?
lk
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Salam my sister Heart,
Salam Andy,
I'm single at the moment, so I don't have a partner.
peace
Heart
With all respect, perhaps you should rethink again about your plan for childless future. At least, it adds difficulty in finding a partner (finding a God Alone partner has already been difficult) as far as I can tell.
If you're anything like your avatar then I'd be surprised if this remained the case for very long.
Maybe because of her plan for childless future??
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Peace,
You don't know really if this makes it hard or not. If that is her choice, you are not in the place to mock it a bit(your second comment sounds a bit mocking to me, sorry if ?'m wrong) or judge it. She is smart enough to know it will not make finding a partner that easier.
I myself wouldn't decide this, i would take at least one kid from my own, but i really do respect it. As it is brave to neglect your own instincts and want to take care of children that ain't yours. There are thousands of children in need on this earth, and only because we are such slaves to our instincts of passing on our genes, we rather neglect these needing children. So what heart wants to do is a true Muslim unselfish deed...
I bow to you my lady...