Translation of `Jinn`
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Peace All,
Nabster, you stated
you are using up words made up by humans using logic made up by humans basing it on experience felt by humans, and Allah tells you He is different from everything you ever could imagine...
then Ahmed said
this is what Iblis is doing with them, he is fooling them to say on Allah what they don't know, this is Haram
Now when Arnold clarified for you by quoting 2115, he showed you that these are not man-made concepts but directly from the Qur'an
- To God belong the East and the West. Wherever you turn the face/presence of God is everywhere All-pervading is He and all-knowing.
Ahmed's reply?
that is what Allah said in the Quran so you have added nothing new and I appluade you for that
hypno
2115 clearly says God is everywhere, all-pervading, and you guys agree. We all agree. So what's the problem?
Peace,
Tay -
Peace,
Yes, nabster i understand you. I have my reasons to see what i see, just as you. It doesn't matter if you believe sjeitan to be the evil side of man or a real entity, both sides are warned with the same words, and both want the same results from the Quran, to have paradise on earth and in the next life, the small difference will not disturb that same goal. The beauty of the Quran is that it inspires all people of all levels and backgrounds...
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Peace Bro
And of course you know that there are serious scientific studies in the paranormal which try to account for and find out about strange phenomena, including what they call ghosts, and telepathy, telekinesis, fire-starting etc (btw i do not believe in ghosts, i think they are jinns)...
There are many agencies who have tried to look into these matters to see if they can get advantages for themselves, witness psychics like Uri Geller who made millions finding oil deposits for oil companies...
Salam
NabsterPeace,
I have studied higher physics and now also psychology together with theology. Most 'sightings' are subconciousness powers that are 'thrown out, like poltergeists are for 90% connected with adolesences which is a strange connection as almost all were youngsters with a lot of anger. Quantum physics show that we have more powers then we know, al though it has limits, but our mind really can affect objects, so a lot are believing it are the youngsters who subconciously are moving the objects. Next to that, most ghost-sightings are just electro-magnetic fields which influence the mind, and people think they see things. Also things as shadows and rays of energy can be seen as 'beings' while it is just the brain who is trying to interpretate what it sees. Do you know the 'what do you see in these inkblots'?
Telepathy has to do with Quantum physics, as well people as uri geller who are just more sensetive for the Quantum field level and can 'read' information out of it, while they themselves don't even know how. Then you have just the none proven fables, which are still spread on earth, and people just want to believe those. To understand more on what you above said, please read my article so you understand better
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5417.0
There ar eno miracles or 'entities', just misunderstood science and psychology of the human mind. The biggest fooler is your own mind....
Peace bro...
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As always thank you Ahmed for the evidence which is plain and clear. I will never in my wildest dreams try and describe Allah, I cannot...
or trying to know why He did whatever, unless He told us Himself why
Salam bro
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Peace,
I don't understand your post, as you say exactly what i say. The discoveries of those famous scientists showed that there were no miracles, and that every step can be explained true normal gained knowledge. So in the future things will be discovered which are now thought to be impossible; so then it are no miracles, yes? It is just misunderstood or unknown science, and psychology of the human mind making a twist.
What does this has to do with inspiration? creativity? And what is the Creator warning me about what i don't believe? There is not one thing in the Quran i don't believe, the only thing is that YOU and ME approach things differently. So it is not that i don't believe God, no no, that is not the case, i don't use YOUR approach, that is the situation here. So please don't take your 'warnings' too far, as this is your truth, not mine.
Inspirations and creativity comes from dreams, observations and hard long thinking, not from believing in 'miracles' or superstition. Creativity and spirituality comes from within.
You say in your earlier post how science proves a lot of things, but you ignore one side of science which shows that these things are mostly human made things, not 'miracles' or 'ghosts'.
I don't pick and choose from what i accept from science, and i can only see what my knowledge and insight allows me, as do you. Let's accept we see things differently and keep the peace...
Peace bro
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Read 2115 again.............
Sure bro let?s read it again
To God belong the East and the West. Wherever you turn the face/presence of God is everywhere All-pervading is He and all-knowing.
(115)
-> Please bro, when faced with a tough argument (733), I ask you not to confuse the subject we have in hand
-> 2115 is telling us that Allah everywhere which I agreed on, HOWEVER, DOES IT TELL US THAT EVERYTHING IS MADE OUT OF ALLAH?
Of course it does NOT, this is my problem with you that you submitted to Iblis and he convinced you to say things on Allah that you don?t know
Now I ask you
- Does the Quran tell us that everything is made out of Allah?
- Does The Quran tell us the humans are part of Allah?
Well, I never see any of the above, therefore we can?t say that we are part of Allah, this is actually a human concept, Ahl Al Kitab were very good at that concept, they made Jesus part of Allah by saying Jesus is the son of god, so it seems you are really influenced by their human concept, well a father and a son are parts of each other physically and spiritually, let?s see how Ahl Al Kitab said that and how Allah responded to them
And the Jews and the Christians say We are the sons of Allah and His beloved ones. Say Why does He then chastise you for your faults? Nay, you are mortals from among those whom He has created, He forgives whom He pleases and chastises whom He pleases; and Allah's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and what is between them, and to Him is the eventual coming.
(1
-> Here you have it, similar to what you say that we are parts of Allah, ? And the Jews and the Christians say We are the sons of Allah?, this is not about Jesus bro, it is about humans, like what you say , now Allah asked the Jews and Christians a serious question, that question must be asked to you as well ? Why does He then chastise you for your faults??
-> This is very serious conflict bro, so if we are part of Allah ?made out of Him?, how come He chastises us for our faults?, well it has to be asked this way ?how come He chastises parts of Himself for the faults committed by parts of Him??, exactly like the Christian flawed concept, How come He let the humans chastise His son?
-> Now if you look again in this verse you will see the answer to that serious question which is the denial that we are part of Him rather humans that are made BY HIM, ? Nay, you are mortals from among those whom He has created,?, as well telling us that because we are created ?MADE BY HIM?, He is in total control over us, i.e. ? He pleases and chastises whom He pleases?, see, He is not going to chastises parts of Him
-> So please bro stop accusing others of being attached to the Biblical concept of Allah while the fact of the matter you are the one who is a clear cut Biblical follower trying hard to figure what Allah is or what He looks like or where He sits exactly as they did when they said that Allah created humans similar to His image, well the Quran is telling us that there is nothing like Allah therefore a true believer ?NOT A BIBLICAL FOLLOWER LIKE YOU? will never try to think what Allah is and if the thoughts come in then it should be stopped because we will never grasp what Allah is
The Originator of the heavens and the earth; He made mates for you from among yourselves, and mates of the cattle too, multiplying you thereby; nothing like a likeness of Him; and He is the Hearing, the Seeing.
(11)
-> See, ? nothing like a likeness of Him?, so what you say about Him that He never said must fall under 733 and surely this is Haram by you
Salam bro
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peace Ahmed,
so what does it mean that "God is closer to us than our jugular vein?"
what does that mean to you?Also, you are not understanding that everything is the SAME. There is no difference among things. We are the ones that make them different. Everything is ENERGY. So if God is everywhere, where is God?
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And the Jews and the Christians say We are the sons of Allah and His beloved ones. Say Why does He then chastise you for your faults? Nay, you are mortals from among those whom He has created, He forgives whom He pleases and chastises whom He pleases; and Allah's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and what is between them, and to Him is the eventual coming.
(1
-> Here you have it, similar to what you say that we are parts of Allah, ? And the Jews and the Christians say We are the sons of Allah?, this is not about Jesus bro, it is about humans, like what you say , now Allah asked the Jews and Christians a serious question, that question must be asked to you as well ? Why does He then chastise you for your faults??
Again you take this beautifully out of context. What has beings 'sons' to do with being part of the All? If you would have understood Jewish and Christian theology, which you don't, and which God points too. Is that certain Jews and Christians use this term to show that they believe they are the chosen ones of God, if you look at the second part of the sentence, this is clearly shown, with 'why then(if you are the chosen ones) does He punish you?' And refers to that they are created just like every other human on earth, and they are not any more special. They claimed the only right of being special in God's eyes, which God says is nonsense. This verse has nothing to do with what you say here, even so much, i even didn't expect this from you to take a verse so much out of context. Iblis has got you too it seems.....
Because did i ever claim that He will not punish me? That i'm not created? You don't understand a molecule of what i mean with being created in Him. So you come up with these nonsensical things. My being still has to be created to be here. My conciousness was designed. I don't explain the buildingblocks. I don't explain God. I show that we cannot grasp Him, but i also show throught the Quran He is not out there somewhere. He encompasses all. I never defined Him.
The Originator of the heavens and the earth; He made mates for you from among yourselves, and mates of the cattle too, multiplying you thereby; nothing like a likeness of Him; and He is the Hearing, the Seeing.
(11)
-> See, ? nothing like a likeness of Him?, so what you say about Him that He never said must fall under 733 and surely this is Haram by you
Look clearly at the verse again. NOTHING like a likeness of Him. So this means no form, no position, no nothing. What do you have left? The All! God is the All, as nothing is the All. There can only be one everything, all creation and beyond that, infinite, unlimited. Everpresent, All-pervading. Omniscient. Do i describe Him here with these words? No, doesn't even come close. Why? Because what does infinite say? Does it 'describe' infinite? No, it doesn't, it points into a direction. To understand a definition, you have to grasp it to define it. Can you or me, our little brains grasp infinity? No they can't. We can only point to a direction. Infinite is something never-ending and never-beginning.
The words i use don't describe Him, they don't even come close. They only point a direction, just like 'most mercifull' only points into a direction. You can experience infinity, you can travel an infinite road, but can you describe it? No. The same with God. That you don't get 'how i think can be seen by the way you used the verse above to defend your position. God is not energy or anything we can understand, but i do know He is everywhere i look 2115, and this means also when i look at the substances of which i'm made off. He says EVERYWHERE, unlimited, nothing to be compared. You don't understand me. So please keep your judgements to yourself.
Peace
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peace Ahmed,
so what does it mean that "God is closer to us than our jugular vein?"
what does that mean to you?Also, you are not understanding that everything is the SAME. There is no difference among things. We are the ones that make them different. Everything is ENERGY. So if God is everywhere, where is God?
Run away!
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Brother Arnold, before I reply to your comment later today, I would like to know
you said
we are made OUT OF HIM
now I asked you, did you mean BY HIM or out of Him means part of Him?
please answer this question and I will reply to your comment later as i have to go now
PS I'm not judging you because I don't know you as you guessed it, I'm judging what you say against Allah and the Quran, as I'm sure you are doing the same to me
Salam
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Hello all
I really have to go but I think i nneed to respond to this one
Peace,
Peace bro
We are made by Him i said many times in my posts
this is not the answer to the querstion bro
you said also made OUT OF HIM, now I asked you did you mean that
Made OUT of HIM = Made BY HIM?
if the above is the case then, I'm sorry but you had a grammar problem like I always do
i think you need glasses,
I really do, true
and i believe that He is everywhere, just as He says in 2115,
we agreed on that, so why you keep repeating it?
i don't limit His presence.
did I do that?
And nabster, by that comment you show your intelligence.
hmmm, that was borther nabster
ok brother nabster you can take the mic
And you do judge AB,
back to me
well, if I do, is it a crime?
you judge everything that goes against your thinking.
I don't really know what you mean, logically speaking, shouldn't everyone do that?, or you think neuteral judges should be in place for every argument?
I see that you don't understand my words, so let's leave it.
why we leave it at that, can't you make me understand it using the Quran?
If you're gonna reply to it, it shows you still don't understand it,
of course I will, but how come you say that if I reply it means that I don't undrstand it?, it didn't click bro
do you mean if I reply in a negative manner?
or do you mean if I reply in a positive manner?
or actually do you mean if I don't reply to it that I understand it?
I really didn't read it thorougly but I will later today inshallah, I guess I will find it filled with some philosphical illusional views, not really based on the literal arabic words of Allah in His Quran
so it is pointless.
so if it is, why you posted your comment then?
Salam
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Arnold on whose authority are you speaking? Are you a Messenger of Allah?
bravo
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Peace Nabster,
Kindly address who it is you're posting to so we can avoid any confusion. Anyway, I think this was for me
No it is a debris from the issue of believing in Jinns as real beings as opposed to fantasies.
If jinns are not real...First, no one is saying jinn isn't real.
why would Allah have bothered to refer to them several times in the Quran and in detail?
Since when does something have to be an invisible creature in order to be mentioned in the Qur'an in detail?
It is the logic of the argument I am questioning that rules out the existence of Jinns as real beings.
OK.
Because similar arguments could then be used to invalidate the existence of Allah as a Real Being.
Baloney (bologna)!
There can only be one omnipresent source of creation. This cannot be written off. But I'm not sure what you mean by "being".What I said was even belief in Allah requires a leap in faith, similar to belief in what we cannot see, inclusive of Jinns.
Why does Allah ask us again and again to witness nature, to witness the universe, the heavens, the mountains, the rain? Why would you say these queries are posed? My opinion Because the deeper you dig, the more similarity you will find, and the closer you will get to the only possible solution - that something far greater than we can imagine created something so infinitely complex via such a simple, beautiful recipe. This requires no leap of faith. It simply requires unadulterated perception.
Maybe we will have instruments one day that will allow us to measure Jinn activities, and maybe even capture one, but for now it all has to do with faith.
Of course you're free to go down that path. I'm of the opinion that the Qur'an delivers guidance for this life, not clues of a creature that no one has seen for 1400 years, and may not see for another 14,000 years. I don't fault you or anyone for believing as you do. Why is it, that you fault those who do not believe as you do?
Please please let us stop this argument, this is not about who has the last word...
Agree to disagree, and call it quits. But getting the last word and saying it's not about the last word seems ironic, no?
By the way, neither you nor Ahmed have explained what it means that God is closer to us than our jugular vein.
Peace,
Tay -
By the way, neither you nor Ahmed have explained what it means that God is closer to us than our jugular vein.
Peace,
TayBrother Tay
do you really think I need to explain that?
well, it means Allah is very close to us, it has nothing to do with the Jugular Vein, nor Allah is inside us
Peace
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peace
Why does Allah ask us again and again to witness nature, to witness the universe, the heavens, the mountains, the rain? Why would you say these queries are posed?
because when you do, you'll realize that these things don't just 'exist.' Which will lead you to the path of the Creator
By the way, neither you nor Ahmed have explained what it means that God is closer to us than our jugular vein.
Read the verses before this verse and after
5015 Did We have any difficulty in making the first creation? No, they are in confusion about the next creation.
5016 And We have created man and We know what his soul whispers to him, and We are closer to him than his jugular vein.
5017 When the two receivers meet on the right and on the left.
5018 He does not utter a word except with having a constant recorder.
5019 And the moment of death came in truth "This is what you have been trying to avoid!"This is an allegory
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Peace be upon you Ahmed,
Now it is your turn to inform us how every human verified that Jinn are our egos
As soon as you show me where I ever said jinn = ego.
Please pay closer attention.
Nabster, you would fare better using the idea of MENTAL creation. Did a piece of Shakespeare die when one of his characters died?
Lastly, to all, how can the God be EVERYWHERE if It is not within the human being? Didn't the God blow into the human from ITS OWN Divine Energy(Ruh Ul Qudus)?
If the God is not in teh human being, then the human stands apart from the ONE, making another(partner).
All is ONE.
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Peace be upon you Ahmed,
Now it is your turn to inform us how every human verified that Jinn are our egos
As soon as you show me where I ever said jinn = ego.
Bro idolfree
forgive my ignorace
I can rephrase the question
can you please inform me how you verfired that the Jinns are exactly as how you understand it?
cheers
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peace tay
Peace Imran,
What is the truth behind this allegory, as you understand?
Peace,
TayGod is omniscient/omnipresent... that man thinks he wont be held accountable that no-one is watching him