The origin of the mythical "Jinn" being idea.
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And here we go again...
At least the persians had some sense into ackowledging their existence, this confirms to me that they exist, but the Quran is enough as a witness -
Peace
Why do you isolate only the Persian pre-Islamic notion of invisible beings? Why not look at other cultures who had similar understandings? Could it possibly be that many cultures had the same idea and it wasn't a "Persian influence" on "islam" but rather the Quran which confirmed such invisible beings as being truly a creation of God that most pre-islamic cultures had an understanding of? Please break down your understanding of jinn as per al-quran so we can follow your rationale further.
Just some questions to stimulate more thinking on the topic )
Peace All
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Peace Phoenix
here is absolutely NO reason to believe that these mythical fairies exist. NONE.
The only reason you believe in them is because you THINK that the Quran says it does.
That's a pretty poor reason in my opinion.well i think i had an encounter with jinn. if it wasn't jinn then it was some other being that was invisible ... (i.e. jinn again) lol
my story is on another thread. i'll post it up when i find it again
if you can give me a decent explanation of what happened in my story, i'm willing to accept it. (that's not including that i'm insane , we already established that)Peace all
found it http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5522.msg91996#msg91996
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Peace Truth,
That's interesting about the Turkish expression. Apparently, the zoroastrians had an influence on the jews as well...
http//www.orahsaddiqim.org/Resources/The_Influence_of_Zoroastrianism_on_Rabbanism.shtml
The Talmud was greatly influenced by Persian culture. It derives, in fact, much of its content directly from the Zend-Avesta, as will be detailed in brief below. One finds in the Talmud not only Persian superstition and legend, but many legal decisions handed down in accordance with Persian code. Not to mention the customs and usages of Persian life. Even the forms and expressions of the literary Pahlavi entered into the Talmud in no small way. The Persian influence on the Talmud is so great that, at times, it is difficult to separate what is Jewish from what is Persian in it.
but getting back to the jinn thingy, check out 723-4
The Most High is our only Lord. He never had a mate, nor a son. It is the foolish among us who used to utter such nonsense about GOD.
Who was/is it that said God had a son? Maybe it was the invisible Catholic beings? Qur'an says it was ahlu-alkitab.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Truth,
That's interesting about the Turkish expression. Apparently, the zoroastrians had an influence on the jews as well...
http//www.orahsaddiqim.org/Resources/The_Influence_of_Zoroastrianism_on_Rabbanism.shtml
The Talmud was greatly influenced by Persian culture. It derives, in fact, much of its content directly from the Zend-Avesta, as will be detailed in brief below. One finds in the Talmud not only Persian superstition and legend, but many legal decisions handed down in accordance with Persian code. Not to mention the customs and usages of Persian life. Even the forms and expressions of the literary Pahlavi entered into the Talmud in no small way. The Persian influence on the Talmud is so great that, at times, it is difficult to separate what is Jewish from what is Persian in it.
but getting back to the jinn thingy, check out 723-4
The Most High is our only Lord. He never had a mate, nor a son. It is the foolish among us who used to utter such nonsense about GOD.
Who was/is it that said God had a son? Maybe it was the invisible Catholic beings? Qur'an says it was ahlu-alkitab.
Peace,
TayPeace Tay,
Yes it is obvious to the level headed that chapter 72 describes a human group and not some invisible being myth.
I listened to this a while back that described some of the origins of ideas on fairies and their influence on human thought and culture. You may be interested...
http//www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/inourtime_20060511.shtml
Regards.
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Peace
I suggest you go and learn arabic by spending say six months with an arabic nomad tribe, then start reading the Quran in arabic, instead of speculating from in front of a computer monitor using the google search engine...
You have no idea what you are talking about...
Nabster -
Peace
I suggest you go and learn arabic by spending say six months with an arabic nomad tribe, then start reading the Quran in arabic, instead of speculating from in front of a computer monitor using the google search engine...
You have no idea what you are talking about...
NabsterCan the God not understand the two languages I speak?
Do you think it an honour to the Arabic language that the reading was sent in it?
Do you not realise that it was sent to Arabs because they have the dishonour of being the worst in hypocrisy?
And instead of following it, they preferred the words of man and became Bukharians and continue in their hypocrisy?
Ponder those things and if you ever need a heart surgeon then dont forget to call me before walking into a psychologists office for a bypass operation.
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Peace Truth,
That's interesting about the Turkish expression. Apparently, the zoroastrians had an influence on the jews as well...
http//www.orahsaddiqim.org/Resources/The_Influence_of_Zoroastrianism_on_Rabbanism.shtml
Very Good link, thanks !
Another excerpt
Masekhet Sanhedrin 25 notes that devs are particularly active in graveyards. Masekhet Gitin 68 and Midrash Qohelet state that divs are male and female. Masekhet Berakhot 61 and Masekhet Hulin 105 state that demons can assume the shape of human beings, or flys. Masekhet Hagigah 16 contends that demons, like human beings, can reproduce.
We find nearly the same beleifs in the sunni mythology...
peace
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You will never understand fully the Quran until you are fluent in arabic, otherwise you will just rely on others to interpret it for you.
I wanted to improve myself intellectually, so I learnt english and now am extremely fluent in it, if I were not a native arabic speaker, and was concerned about the fate of my soul, then I would have made it priority one to learn arabic.
As for those who follow the hadith, I am not interested in them or what they have to say, this is why I am interacting on this web-site.
Peace
Nabster -
peace Soul2squeeze,
I read your story, and sorry but it sounds like a load of horse s***. But I'm pretty sure you wouldn't lie about it.
You sure you didn't buy any drugs from those drug dealers?It was certainly a very interesting story. I'm sure there was a perfectly "normal" reason for what happened. There are so many things about this world that we don't understand yet.
But what I can tell you is that what you saw had nothing to do with "jinn." If you look at jinn in the quran as invisible beings, the description is very vague, and the decription of jinn in the quran doesn't really fit into what you, or other people have described in their paranormal stories.EDIT was it James Randy who is giving away a million bucks to someone who can show him something supernatural? S2S, you could get very rich.
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Salaam Truth,
This wasn't new to the Persians. Their existing mythology held these beings to exist except that they had a different name - "PERI" (meaning fairy)...
That's interesting... I never knew that the Indonesian word "peri" came from Persia. Thanks for this info.
=adley=
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Peace Phoenix
read your story, and sorry but it sounds like a load of horse s***.
Well it's a normal reaction to not believe it. I'm a pretty skeptical person myself, and I know if someone posted that story, I most likely wouldn't accept it either if i never experienced anything like it. Especially since i don't know anyone personally on this forum too. So that would be 2 strikes against believing a post like that.
It sounds absurd, but the only thing i can say is, i told the truth in that post.
i have nothing to gain from writing something so personal. I'm not very outspoken by nature, and i don't voluntarily give out any info about myself. So i didn't exactly get a kick out of telling strangers (people on this forum) what happened to me.
I didn't even write it to convince anyone of anything. You are free to believe what you want. I only wrote it upon request of sis Savage_Carrot who wanted to know what exactly happened.As far as there being a "normal" reason for what happened, hmmm I don't know what you mean by normal...
I don't think anything that we experienced in that apartment was "normal" at all... if you can find something "normal" about it, more power to you.And i'll pass on James Randy's offer, thanks for offering though
Peace All
P.S. Just a note to all I'm not in the mood to defend myself on something that actually happened in my past and something traumatic enough to take me a long time to get over. So please don't think this is a free invitation to put me on trial. Honest questions, respectful reactions, and possible explanations are all welcome. Insults and cross-questioning are really not welcome at all. Thanks in advance
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Peace S2S,
You are fully entitled not to be pestered by anyone.
There is no way you can convince an unbeliever on issues his heart is fixated on.
All paranormal stories I have ever heard are very compatible with the Quranic description of Jinns.
They are beings who have access to higher/different dimensions than our own, and are far more powerful than we are if allowed to (Allah's Angels protect us from them, as the Angels have demoted them by Allah's decree from the high position they used to exercise on this solar system, and they were replaced by Mankind in this function).
The views of phoenix1, etc are a minority on this forum (so I have been advised by well meaning forum-mates), and I now personally have chosen to avoid any debate with them whatsoever.
Kind regards
Nabster -
peace nabster, Soul2squeeze
nabster, you do know what the quran says about following the majority, right?
anyway S2S, I believe your story. I'm a bit skeptical, but I don't see any reason why you would lie. And you have always seemed like a good person. And there have been other stories just like yours.
So yes, I do believe you. I just don't think your story has to do anything with the word jinn in the quran, that's all.
By "normal," I meant something that is within the boundaries of the universal law God has created. Everything happens according to it. But there is A LOT we don't know about this world.well, it might actually have something to do with jinn, but not in the sense of invisible ghosts walking around an apartment.
Tay gave a good explanation. Something Arnold yasin would agree with I think. I still have to read those books on that stuff. -
Peace Bro Nabster
You are fully entitled not to be pestered by anyone.
There is no way you can convince an unbeliever on issues his heart is fixated on.Yes this is very true . That's why I wanted to make it clear to anyone reading it that i'm not really out to change anyone's opinion or convince someone on that which he/she refuses to believe. I simply wanted to share my story with others. Everyone is free to believe it or not, as long as things remain respectable, i have no problem. Actually, I remember before i pressed the "post" button, i was thinking to myself "oh gosh everyone is gonna think i'm psycho...even i wouldn't believe me" D So i can understand if other's wouldn't. Like i said, as long as they practice good etiquette their opinion is fine by me. With other subjects, I'm not so touchy about, but because this subject left such a scar on me, i really can't tolerate trying to defend myself at all. So far people have been understanding mostly but if i start getting ridiculous comments that do more harm for me than good, i'll just remove my whole story and be done with it D
Peace Bro Phoenix
Thanks for your kind words. I appreciate your vote of confidence.
You said
well, it might actually have something to do with jinn, but not in the sense of invisible ghosts walking around an apartment.
I don't equate jinn with 'ghosts' necessarily... I just believe they are invisible beings. Whether they be made up of vibrational energy fields, or something else, it would still mean they are beings that are invisible. So for me, the science doesn't contradict my understanding of jinn.
I still have to read those books on that stuff.
Honestly, i do too. I've never really researched what the nature of these things are, but that explanation seemed valid at a preliminary level.
Peace All
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Peace Phoenix1 & Soul2Squeeze,
I'm a layman regarding this stuff, but what I do understand of it is fascinating and exciting, since it really is in it's infancy. Anyway, here's an article that may help you get an overview. I only breezed through it so I'm not sure how in-depth it is, but it seems to give a nice summary.
http//www.mountainman.com.au/news98_u.htm
Peace,
Tay