"SAWM" - ABSTINENCE; another multiple meaning word to be careful with.

CavemanDoctor

Very simple yet effective post. Peace.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

I am glad you all agree with this understanding. Perhaps you can help me with this question in the following thread;

http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=3796.0

unknownuser

peace oben

are you saying the fast mentioned in chapter 58 and it's circumstances?

Or is this on fasting period in the quran?

unknownuser

Peace all,

I find 'truth's' post above to be nothing more than a fanciful one. When quranists start cheering for what he is talking about above, then its time to call upon Allah to help you out, which I sincerely doubt.

savage_carrot

Please comment with reasons why it's fanciful if someone thinks so. I don't wish for the atmosphere to turn out like it did a month ago. Thanks.

unknownuser

peace

Peace all,

I find 'truth's' post above to be nothing more than a fanciful one. When quranists start cheering for what he is talking about above, then its time to call upon Allah to help you out, which I sincerely doubt.

And I find Danish's post above to be nothing more than a fanciful one. When anti-quranists start cheering for what he is talking above, then its time to call upon Allah to help you out, which I sincerely doubt. ;D

I don't wish for the atmosphere to turn out like it did a month ago. Thanks.

I wish we could be me more civil too.

marie

Peace truth, all,

I had a wrong understanding of the abstinence in 584. Thanks for the opening eyes.
Abstinence in 584 and abstinence of "shahr ramadan" are not same because one can approch approach the women sexually in the second case.

What avout the abstinence in 595, 589, 492? Is this about the abstinence from talking?

Thanks.

unknownuser

There are several instances of the word "SAWM" in the reading, and because most people are familiar with this concept as fasting from food, drink and sexual contact they might assume that other uses of this word in the reading mean the same thing when in fact they don't.

The best example that shows that SAWM should be treated contextually is the following. "SAWM" means abstinence - but the context should indicate what it is that the abstinence must be from...

The traditional understanding is...

583 Those who estrange their wives in this manner, then reconcile thereafter, shall atone by freeing a slave before resuming their sexual relations. This is to enlighten you. GOD is Cognizant of everything you do.

584 If you cannot find a slave to free, you shall fast two consecutive months before resuming sexual relations. If you cannot fast, then you shall feed sixty poor people. You shall believe in GOD and His messenger. These are GOD's laws. The disbelievers have incurred a painful retribution.

Modified translation with respect to the context...

583 Those who estrange their wives in this manner, then reconcile thereafter, shall atone by freeing a slave before resuming their sexual relations. This is to enlighten you. GOD is Cognizant of everything you do.

584 If you cannot find a slave to free, you shall abstain two consecutive months before resuming sexual relations. If you cannot abstain, then you shall feed sixty poor people. You shall believe in GOD and His messenger. These are GOD's laws. The disbelievers have incurred a painful retribution.

The freeing of a slave, fasting for 2 consecutive months and feeding 60 poor people respectively, were pre-requisites to reconciliation of an estranged relationship during ancient times.
Abstinence from sexual contact already factors in on an estranged relationship.
The point of not having sexual contacts for 2 months AFTER reconciliation is meaningless when the abstinence from intercourse is already present during a hostile relation, i.e. BEFORE reconciliation.
Such customary traditions, i.e. fasting, freeing slaves and feeding the poor, etc. referencing half-baked marital relations, were a tribal norm in ancient times long before the advent of Islam, vanishing with time, and not just because an alleged Allah said so centuries later in a man-made book.
These ancient laws/systems are outdated and are not a norm within our modern societies and will be considered foolish and ignorant.
?Sawm? (fasting) cannot mean one thing in one verse and something else in another verse, and this must hold true for all words, ONLY if it?s coming out of "Allah".

The subject matter is quite patently the estrangement from a spouse.

The subject matter deals with conditional reconciliation/fixation of an estranged relation gone sour.

Finally, taking an ancient way of life and modifying to force the issues onto our advanced current way of life, becomes a manipulative new-age ignorant way of life, hence cannot remain ?Allah?s Absolute Words? for all times. Never was!

unknownuser

1926 "Eat and drink, and be happy. When you see anyone, say, `I have made a vow to Ar-Rahman to fast; so I am not talking today to anyone.' "

huh? confused

lol if they made a vow not to speak they cannot actually say they have made a vow. do ya know what i mean? unless that is the only thing they are allowed to say?

peace,
sugar

arnoldyasin

peace,

Yes it refers to that she will not carry on any conversations after those words....