Exposing The 3 Salaat Theory

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Elke,

Can't we get back on track here ?

Yes. My apologies for adding to the delay.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

I would like to repeat FJ's last question to get us back on track.

Brother Al-khidr how do you explain verse 2458 where the three times are mentioned? Why did not God say regarding 5 times but He mentioned only three times and two of them are private Salat times? What are these two private Salat times mentioned in this verse that are different from the other three times? And why it says other then these three private times we can intermingle? I do not see any Salat during this intermingling, do you?

Here is the verse
2458 O you who believe, let those who are your dependants and have not yet attained puberty request your permission regarding three times Before the Salat, and should you put off your attire from being outdoors, and after the Salat made at dusk. These are three private times for you. Other than these times, it is not wrong for you or them to intermingle with one another. God thus clarifies the revelations for you. And God is Knowledgeable, Wise.

This is the second time I am asking you these questions because the first time I asked you did not answer them. Maybe you felt they are not so important and you ingnored them altogether, but they are important for me. So please take some time out of your busy day and answer them honestly.

Anyone can answer not only Al-khidr even though I addressed the questions to him because I would like to hear his opionion.

unknownuser

Peace all,

how do you call that kind of language then ?

all by al khidr

Below is your foolish statement
(2) In the hood you know what we call Black men such as yourself
For one you sound like a kafir

And this was just on this page. Yes, not threatening, but not really a good way to lead a constructive discussion either.

This is precisely the point. Sarcasm or name calling is one thing, while threatening to attack someone physically is quite another issue, and sounds a lot more serious. It's totally against online etiquettes. That's the way I personally think.

Can't we get back on track here ?

Wavering from the "track" is FM's hallmark of 'intellectualism.' It's a secret strategy that helps to avoid an acknowledgement of the validity of the original topic. It happens in every thread. One just cannot miss it ... ;D

Al_Khidr

Salaam Sister Zainab

I am glad that you made that point becuase some here cannot analytically make the distinction.

Salaam

Peace all,

how do you call that kind of language then ?

all by al khidr

Below is your foolish statement
(2) In the hood you know what we call Black men such as yourself
For one you sound like a kafir

And this was just on this page. Yes, not threatening, but not really a good way to lead a constructive discussion either.

This is precisely the point. Sarcasm or name calling is one thing, while threatening to attack someone physically is quite another issue, and sounds a lot more serious. It's totally against online etiquettes. That's the way I personally think.

Can't we get back on track here ?

Wavering from the "track" is FM's hallmark of 'intellectualism.' It's a secret strategy that helps to avoid an acknowledgement of the validity of the original topic. It happens in every thread. One just cannot miss it ... ;D

Al_Khidr

Wa Laykum As Salaam idolfree or kyle

You have said below ?from time to time an ignorant person??

?No, it is the direct result of some of my negative conditioning from growing up in Philadelphia. I do a good job at ignoring such negative thoughts but from time to time an ignorant person will come to test my spiritual work to inform me of my progress.?

idolFree who is really displaying the ignorance? You so-called pseudo-Muslims cannot even prove your ?3 Salaat Thoery?. And you on the other hand with your mystical babble who falsely claims to know the elite African scholars should be a shamed of yourself, all the way from the lack of your Black consciousness to your sectarian Moslem beliefs. In one of your previous post you have mentioned verifiable evidence and the people are still waiting for your verifiable evidence? So actually idolfree I think time has proven who is really ignorant (which means to lack knowledge of something), especially of this subject.

You have said this

?Believe as you wish. I won't follow you any longer in the footsteps of shayteen. Hopefully you will take a turn in the right direction as well, if not, well I live in Philadelphia.?

Notice that you ended with ?well I live in Philadelphia?, like that meant something. You did not provide the address tough guy. Like I have said previously, this level of talk coming from you is a joke and we kyle or idolfree know that, especially when we are cyber space apart from one another. But your ego and your cowardly Muslim nature causes you to play the tough guy role before your Progressive Muslim audience. Keep up the Richard Pryor comic act, it funny. We need entertainment like that every now and then.

On a personal note, you idolfree need to retire from debating. I strategically got to your head and you lost composure. Every body cannot survive in the atmosphere of DEBATE because psychological warfare is augmented on a higher level and only the wise will come out on top. Turn the torch over to someone else who is mentally keen to manifest on this level.

Since you idolfree do not have evidence for your false belief of the ?3 Salaat Theory?, I see that you are trying live and die off of FJ question. My question to you is this, are you really serious about that question? Do you Muslims read the Qur?aan? Or just pick and choose what you want like some of the Children of Israel

Qur?aan 285
Yet, here you are killing each other, and evicting some of you from their homes, banding against them sinfully and maliciously. Even when they surrendered, you demanded ransom from them. Evicting them was prohibited for you in the first place. Do you believe in part of the scripture and disbelieve in part? What should be the retribution for those among you who do this, except humiliation in this life, and a far worse retribution on the Day of Resurrection? Allah is never unaware of anything you do.

All you have to do is take your eyes out of 2458 and read the rest of Al Qur?aan and you will see the 5 Salaat which are prescribed by Allah. It?s a beautiful Book, why don?t you try it. But to see clear evidence with some people it?s a hopeless cause

Qur?aan 1746
And We placed shields around their hearts, to prevent them from under standing it (the Qur?aan), and deafness in their ears. And when you preach your Lord, using the Qur?aan alone, they run away in aversion.

Qur?aan 4724
Why do they not study the Qur?aan carefully? Are their minds blocked?

This debate idolfree has been over a long long long time ago. Pheonix1 came out and attempted to salvage the ?3 Salaat Theory? with his illogical approach to the ?glorification/meditation/praise? in Al Qur?aan and I clearly/concisely addressed that but I have not really found a need or purpose to respond in this thread any more. But I see you brought me out with your comic antics and shuffling again so I decided to respond to you and FJ?s question.

http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/3salaattheoryexposed.htm

http//www.freewebs.com/suprememathematics/grabbingforstraws.htm

http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/wakaszeehlatifdebate.htm

Qur?aan 2543
Have you seen the one who has taken his ego as his god? Will you be a caretaker over him?

Translated by Progressive Muslims

Salaam

Al_Khidr

Salaam FJ

FJ you have said this

?Brother Al-khidr how do you explain verse 2458 where the three times are mentioned? Why did not God say regarding 5 times but He mentioned only three times and two of them are private Salat times??

I believe one of the biggest mistakes that you are making is assuming that all 5 Salaat is supposed to be mentioned in that one verse (245. Allah has revealed 114 Chapters and over 6000 verses and it amazes me to see that you would think all 5 Salaat would be mention in that one verse. It would be nice if Allah fed spooned us like that, but sometimes we have to put in a little work ourselves. This question ?Where are the 5 Salaat in Al Qur?aan? have already been addressed and answered in my original rebuttal and you can also find them here at my following post in this thread

Post on July 02, 2006, 095316 PM
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6028.210

Other then my original rebuttal this link will answer your question in a condensed form or fashion. It is very clear that we have 5 Prayers or Salaat mentioned in the Qur?aan and pay close attention to which Salaat period I listed 2458 at. FJ, it is really no purpose to present information that has already been addressed over and over again, we want to avoid going around in circles and circles. You have said that you have read my original rebuttal and I want to thank you for that but did you over look the following Salaat periods I listed in my original rebuttal?

(1) The Dawn Prayer (Fajr) given in 11114, 2458
(2) The Noon Prayer (Zuhr), given in 1778 and 3018
(3) The Afternoon Prayer (Asr), given in 2238
(4) The sunset Prayer (Maghrib), given in 11114
(5) The Night Prayer (Isha), given in 2458

I want to quote an excerpt from a debate that Basma Khalifa had with Omar Edibat on Salaat. Below is what she said in response to a similar question like yours

?Reading throughout the Quran and examining its pattern, we can easily see that information and specifications for certain matters are scattered throughout the Quran. We conclude orders and laws by looking at the whole context of the Quran. We get the whole picture of the Hajj by examining several chapters of the Quran (2, 5,9,22, 4. The month of Ramdan and fasting is specified over many verses in chapter 2, while the Night of Power is exclusively mentioned in chapter 97. The whole picture of divorce is scattered throughout chapters 2, 4, 33, 60, 65, 66.

So it's not unusual for the five prayers to be mentioned in several verses. We cannot dictate the way God is presenting his truth. We all know by now that every word, every letter, every verse number and even the order of verses is precisely chosen, measured and is a part of a very complicated mathematical structure. Our vision of what makes sense and what doesn't is so limited and needs to be questioned and evaluated all the time.?

The purpose as to why I quoted this is to raise the conscious level of understanding that sometimes to get the message Of Allah we have to obtained it from different parts of the Qur?aan. I personally do not know why you would think all 5 Salaat would have to be mentioned in that verse (245 alone. All you have to do FJ is read those verses that I provided to you and you can clearly see that Allah has mentioned 5 periods to observe Salaat. If you can?t see that, I don?t know what else to say.

Below you FJ have said the following because I have asked you what position that you stand on, 5 or 3 Salaat

?Brother to be honest I like your article but I have not yet decided which side to stand on when it comes to observing salaat. Brother with this question and the way you sometime behave I feel like you are trying to force your decision... I hope you are not counting how many of us accepted your explanation.?

It is very clear that you FJ have developed preconceived ideas as to why I have asked you that question. There are many reasons why I may ask that question and of course I will not waist my time listing all the reasons but for one just to give you an insight-sometimes it helps me to know where a person is at in terms of this heated debate, whether they believe in 5 or 3 or if they are in the middle and don?t know because just a little piece of information like that can help me understand what angle or route I should take in answering some one?s questions or respond to their challenges etc. So I hope that you can understand something as elementary as that.

You have said this

?I have been reading everything I can and am trying to follow the best and that is because I do not speak Arabic and thus am dependend on your explanations.?

FJ I have used Arabic in my original rebuttal entitled ?Exposing The 3 Salaat Theory? but to be truthful with you, this subject does not take Arabic knowledge to know something simple as to whether or not Allah revealed 5 or 3 Salaat in the Qur?aan. I personally think that there are other things people need to remove in order for them to see the clear evidence or truth of this subject matter and its not Arabic. As the late great Ahmed Deedat use to tell the Christians ?remove the spiritual blinders? and then you will see. It amazes me to see how this subject 5 or 3 Salaat is only an issue among Progressive Muslims. We Muslims all over the world whether we follow Qur?aan alone or the traditionalist know that Allah has prescribed 5 Salaat in the Qur?aan. To us this subject matter is clear as day light itself?

http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/3salaattheoryexposed.htm

http//www.freewebs.com/suprememathematics/grabbingforstraws.htm

http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/wakaszeehlatifdebate.htm

Salaam

Elke

Salaam Sister Zainab

I am glad that you made that point becuase some here cannot analytically make the distinction.

Salaam

Peace all,

how do you call that kind of language then ?

all by al khidr

Below is your foolish statement
(2) In the hood you know what we call Black men such as yourself
For one you sound like a kafir

And this was just on this page. Yes, not threatening, but not really a good way to lead a constructive discussion either.

This is precisely the point. Sarcasm or name calling is one thing, while threatening to attack someone physically is quite another issue, and sounds a lot more serious. It's totally against online etiquettes. That's the way I personally think.

Can't we get back on track here ?

Wavering from the "track" is FM's hallmark of 'intellectualism.' It's a secret strategy that helps to avoid an acknowledgement of the validity of the original topic. It happens in every thread. One just cannot miss it ... ;D

Peace

funny how some can always and ever only see their own side. And you go on with sarcasm, but without logic. Why should physical threats be against online etiquette - even though one can be quite sure the computer is not going to hit you - but sarcasm and name calling are ok ? - Although these are the only ones that can hurt online ?

Don't get me wrong, the threatening is totally out of place for sure, as well.

Now if you were logic and analytical, you would see that all the verses you cited angainst idolfree can also be returned to you. And i would add another, for both of you

An-Nahl - 16.125 . Call unto the way of thy Lord with wisdom and fair exhortation , and reason with them in the better way . Lo! thy Lord is best aware of him who strayeth from His way , and He is best Aware of those who go aright .

elke

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Elke,

I humbly accept the reminder.

Al Khidr, I have no interest in discussing this any further with you. I do not see any receptivity available from your side so it will be best just to respond with "Peace".

By the way, my position is two salaat, Dawn and Dusk.

unknownuser

Peace

funny how some can always and ever only see their own side.

If I am, so are you. hence there's no need to elaborate on this one where the other person is only throwing stones ..

And you go on with sarcasm, .... Why should physical threats be against online etiquette - even though one can be quite sure the computer is not going to hit you

If you aren't living in a civilized world, I am ..

The very fact that you've made this comparison between sarcasm and physical threats shows what an inaccurate perception you have.

Whether it be on the internet or in person or on telephone or just about anywhere .. according to the established norms of safety, lashing out with one's tongue is NOT the same as lashing with one's hands. Even a verbal physical threat signifying bodily harm is a breach of security. For this reason, every online Agreement includes this clause about not making physical threats. Yes of course the computer can't hit (what a silly thing to say), but this is how personal enemities build up .. and then who knows to what extent the perpetrator is serious about carrying out his threat? After all, numerous intimidating gestures on the net have actually been carried out in person. Don't listen to me if you don't want to, but simply check the record of the number of violent offences in the 21st century that have originated from the net.

but sarcasm and name calling are ok ? - Although these are the only ones that can hurt online ?

Clean non-abusive sarcasm or name calling is NOT against the law in any part of the developed world nor on the net. However, the overly touchy & feely ones can feel soppy about it. But that's there problem. If someone calls me 'stupid' or a 'fool,' I can either answer back saying the same or just ignore that person. But in return for such a harmless comment if I threaten to squash that person's mouth, I am most definietely overstepping my bounds.

Moreover, if sarcasm or name calling can "hurt" (whatever that means) as you've so graciously stated .. needless to say, a physical threat would play much, much greater havoc in robbing one's peace of mind in many more ways.

Don't get me wrong, the threatening is totally out of place for sure, as well.

You bet ..

To wrap it up .. the fact is, outside FM forum, no one could care less about their 2 and 3 salaat notions. Nonetheless, all the best to your poor fragile egos!

Last but not least .. for the safety of my cute little nose, I hope admins remain admins and not turn into ruffians P

progod

Khidr,

Are you ready to respond yet?
I know that you like to do your referencing but do you need me to re-post?
Remember Fajr and Eeshaa?

Godbless,
Anwar

Al_Khidr

Alhamdulillah

Sister Zainab for intellectually putting so-called Elke in his place. Some of these Muslims in here cannot agan make the analytical distinction between the two. But you know what this is their only way they can attack by using tactics like this because they have ran out of fuel. They never ever ever once had the juice, the arguments, the evidence to back up that baseless theory "3 Salaat Theory". Any intelligent person anayzing this thread from page one to the present will notice that not one Progressive Muslim has been able to provide Qur'aanic Evidence to prove their position on the "3 Salaat Theory" and this is a shame because they claim to follow Qur'aan alone, but TRUTH has revealed other wise. Their "3 Salaat Theory" is nothing but their millennium version of hadiyth just like the Sunni Moslems of today. So we have Progressive Muslims like idolfree talking about punching some one in the mouth and other Progressive crying about my approach or style, others addressing subjects not related to this thread in hopes to drift from the original topic, etc. but sister Zainab we have not seen any of them, especially the heavy weights digging deep inside Al Qur'aan to prove thier unfounded "3 Salaat Theory". In closing this has only become an controversial and confusing issue among them (Progressive Muslims) but not the Muslim population or the Ummah and this is true for Muslims who follow Qur'aan alone and traditional Muslims. It is very very clear that Allah, The Knower, The Wise has decreed or prescribed 5 Salaat.

Salaam

Peace

funny how some can always and ever only see their own side.

If I am, so are you. hence there's no need to elaborate on this one where the other person is only throwing stones ..

And you go on with sarcasm, .... Why should physical threats be against online etiquette - even though one can be quite sure the computer is not going to hit you

If you aren't living in a civilized world, I am ..

The very fact that you've made this comparison between sarcasm and physical threats shows what an inaccurate perception you have.

Whether it be on the internet or in person or on telephone or just about anywhere .. according to the established norms of safety, lashing out with one's tongue is NOT the same as lashing with one's hands. Even a verbal physical threat signifying bodily harm is a breach of security. For this reason, every online Agreement includes this clause about not making physical threats. Yes of course the computer can't hit (what a silly thing to say), but this is how personal enemities build up .. and then who knows to what extent the perpetrator is serious about carrying out his threat? After all, numerous intimidating gestures on the net have actually been carried out in person. Don't listen to me if you don't want to, but simply check the record of the number of violent offences in the 21st century that have originated from the net.

but sarcasm and name calling are ok ? - Although these are the only ones that can hurt online ?

Clean non-abusive sarcasm or name calling is NOT against the law in any part of the developed world nor on the net. However, the overly touchy & feely ones can feel soppy about it. But that's there problem. If someone calls me 'stupid' or a 'fool,' I can either answer back saying the same or just ignore that person. But in return for such a harmless comment if I threaten to squash that person's mouth, I am most definietely overstepping my bounds.

Moreover, if sarcasm or name calling can "hurt" (whatever that means) as you've so graciously stated .. needless to say, a physical threat would play much, much greater havoc in robbing one's peace of mind in many more ways.

Don't get me wrong, the threatening is totally out of place for sure, as well.

You bet ..

To wrap it up .. the fact is, outside FM forum, no one could care less about their 2 and 3 salaat notions. Nonetheless, all the best to your poor fragile egos!

Last but not least .. for the safety of my cute little nose, I hope admins remain admins and not turn into ruffians P

Elke

Peace zainab, al-khidr

zainab - do you feel personnaly attacked ? I was adressing idolfree and al-khidr and their communication problem.
Now ido i live in a civilized world ? no i don't consider the world around me as civilized. If you knew some more about laws, name calling is an offense in most "civilized" countries and about the attacks emananting from the net... i don't need to check in order to know that these came from people who didn't know how to discuss properly and politely in the first place.

al-khidr if zainab put me any place it is "her" place and "so-called" elke is my real name. Concerning my intellectual and analytical capacities, thanks god i don't rely on people such as you in order to know both my limits and abilities.
Now to the salat theory who told you i defend three salat anyway ? I also never called myself progressive muslim. Whats your problem ? Go back to school and get some proper coaching on constructive discussion. If you were at least reading correctly, you'd have understood that i adressed you and idolfree in my post above.

Now i'm out of this dispute, cause i dont usually dispute with people - i just hit them ;D

lk

FJ

Selam all

Al-khidr

Allah has revealed 114 Chapters and over 6000 verses and it amazes me to see that you would think all 5 Salaat would be mention in that one verse. It would be nice if Allah fed spooned us like that, but sometimes we have to put in a little work ourselves.

Well, I do agree that we have to put in a little work ourselves, but tell me did you really put a little work in writing this artcile, was it easy for you to break down all the verses and point out to Arab speakers and non-arab speakers that there are 5 Salat. I bet it wasn't easy at all.

Other then my original rebuttal this link will answer your question in a condensed form or fashion. It is very clear that we have 5 Prayers or Salaat mentioned in the Qur?aan and pay close attention to which Salaat period I listed 2458 at.

I read the article for the second time but maybe my and some other minds in this forum are blocked and we cannot make a difference of white from black!
Again let me remind you of the question I asked you and you seem to overlook it. Why is saying other than these three private times we can intermingle? What is this intermingling and do you see any Salat during this intermingling?

You have said that you have read my original rebuttal and I want to thank you for that but did you over look the following Salaat periods I listed in my original rebuttal?

No my brother I did not over look them and I read the article twice. But let me ask you this did you over look my question about intermingling in 2458 and why these two salaat times are private and is there a difference between these two private salat times with the other three Salaat times?

FJ I have used Arabic in my original rebuttal entitled ?Exposing The 3 Salaat Theory? but to be truthful with you, this subject does not take Arabic knowledge to know something simple as to whether or not Allah revealed 5 or 3 Salaat in the Qur?aan.

Brother Al-khidr you know very well that those who do not speak Arabic rely on the explanations and interpretations of those who speak Arabic. You see there are several translations of Quran online and each of them difers from the other... tell me which one should I trust as the most accurate translation? The answer is none of them is 100% conveying the color and all the little details of the arabic Quran. All the translators were human and we all know human is prone to make mistakes. FACTS ARE FACTS AS YOU SAY. So, to say this Subject does not take Arabic knowledge to know smth simple as to whether or not Allah revealed 5 or 3 Salat in the Quran is not correct! You said it is simple but the amount of time and work you spend on your article tells the oposite of that and plus the amount of time and trouble it is taking you to convince even those who speak Arabic. Does this mean simple and easy? No, it doesn't.

It amazes me to see how this subject 5 or 3 Salaat is only an issue among Progressive Muslims. We Muslims all over the world whether we follow Qur?aan alone or the traditionalist know that Allah has prescribed 5 Salaat in the Qur?aan. To us this subject matter is clear as day light itself?

What if code 19 suggested that there are not 5 Salat, what would you say to traditionalists then? Remember the verse where it says that generations followed after them and they lost the Salat and followed desires. How do you explain this lost Salat, is it because they mention the name of Muhammad along with God and that they do some other things that code 19 removed? It's you and me and everyone else that belong to the generation that followed after them, which lost the salat and followed desires. The verse says that the Salat of today is incorrect unless I am wrong and missing something for which I am sure you will bring smth to tell me I am mistaken. And traditionlist all argue that the Salat is not detailed in Quran hence their Salat is from hadyith.

Peace,
FJ

Al_Khidr

Salaam FJ

You have said this

?Well, I do agree that we have to put in a little work ourselves, but tell me did you really put a little work in writing this artcile, was it easy for you to break down all the verses and point out to Arab speakers and non-arab speakers that there are 5 Salat. I bet it wasn't easy at all.?

To tell you the truth FJ it was easy work for me. I have written a lot of things on that level and more and putting that together was quite easy. I never heard of the ?3 Salaat Theory? before in all my life until a Muslim who is also in this forum brought this subject matter to my attention. He is the Muslim I never identified by name in my rebuttal because I did not want to compromise his confidence. I referred to that person as the one I had dialogue with using email. I personally wrote him some research ?Exposing The 3 Salaat Theory? and provided the web link to him so that he can analyze the arguments and then later on I took that same research and expanded it which turned into what you have read. If you are curious I still have that original link. Go to the link below and you can see what lead into the extensive research that you have read. Note this link will stay active for a short period of time

http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/draft2.htm

If this person is still active in this forum I want to take the time out to thank you because if it wasn?t for you, I would not have ever written this research exposing the ?3 Salaat Theory?, Alhamdulillah. But again FJ it was very easy for me to put it together and I enjoyed doing so because I seek pleasure in taking part among many Muslims in spreading Islaam or the Pure Teachings of Islaam.

FJ, you have said I have over looked your question, that is not the case, I have directly answered it in post July 11, 2006, 011300 AM. Why do you ignore the other verses that highlights other Salaat periods which proves that there are 5 Salaat. Why do you think all 5 Salaat periods should be mentioned in one verse. Go back and read that post again 5 Salaat are there. In my rebuttal I have documented 5 Salaat in Al Qur?aan. The subject is addressing whether or not there are only 5 or 3 Salaat in the Qur?aan and I try to avoid drifting away from the premise argument, unlike many here who has. I have clearly mapped out 5 Salaat. FJ, if you cannot see that I do not know what else to do for you. Every body will not see and accept truth.

You have said this

?Brother Al-khidr you know very well that those who do not speak Arabic rely on the explanations and interpretations of those who speak Arabic. You see there are several translations of Quran online and each of them difers from the other... tell me which one should I trust as the most accurate translation? The answer is none of them is 100% conveying the color and all the little details of the arabic Quran. All the translators were human and we all know human is prone to make mistakes. FACTS ARE FACTS AS YOU SAY. So, to say this Subject does not take Arabic knowledge to know smth simple as to whether or not Allah revealed 5 or 3 Salat in the Quran is not correct! You said it is simple but the amount of time and work you spend on your article tells the oposite of that and plus the amount of time and trouble it is taking you to convince even those who speak Arabic. Does this mean simple and easy? No, it doesn't.?

I kind of think you missed my point so let me fine tune it a little bit. First I want to say that some of the points that you have raised take some level of Arabic knowledge and that is true FJ. It is true that a translation of Al Qur?aan is a human made product and cannot in no way be equal to the original Arabic text of the Holy Qur?aan. And it is also true that men have mistranslated the Qur?aan by accident and also by design to mislead the masses and sometimes it takes some level of Arabic to see through this madness and distortion. But that is not an absolute thing here that we are talking about because there are also a lot of things pertaining to the understanding of the Qur?aan that does not take Arabic knowledge and I personally feel that this subject matter here ?3 Salaat Theory? does not take Arabic knowledge for some one to know that Allah has prescribed 5 or 3 Salaat, thus, again this confusion only exist among Progressive Muslims and that?s it, all other Muslims are sound that there are only 5 Salaat. When I put my research together, I did not put it together in one or two days but the time that I spent in research and putting it together did not take a great deal of time, thus it took some time but not a great deal of time. I had the physics in my mind and my greatest job or task that I had ahead of me was to translate the physics in my mind on paper (which is the website) in way that most will understand and such understanding will be crystal clear to them that Allah has prescribed only 5 Salaat and not 3. I have been studying Islaam for many many years since I was young to the present and putting in the work (studying) over the years has enabled me to put together information in a nice timely fashion and of course that time is relative, it all depends on the project at hand.

You have said this

?What if code 19 suggested that there are not 5 Salat, what would you say to traditionalists then? Remember the verse where it says that generations followed after them and they lost the Salat and followed desires. How do you explain this lost Salat, is it because they mention the name of Muhammad along with God and that they do some other things that code 19 removed? It's you and me and everyone else that belong to the generation that followed after them, which lost the salat and followed desires. The verse says that the Salat of today is incorrect unless I am wrong and missing something for which I am sure you will bring smth to tell me I am mistaken. And traditionlist all argue that the Salat is not detailed in Quran hence their Salat is from hadyith.?

I do not know if I am missing any points in here but we do not need the mathematical code 19 to prove that there are 5 Salaat among the traditionalist because remember they already know that there is 5 Salaat and they are observing 5 Salaat today as we speak. You see the 19 was additional arguments that I brought forth but we can clearly see that there are 5 Salaat periods in the verses of Al Qur?aan without using the Divine Mathematical Code 19. Now I think this link from my website will answer the rest of your questions here in your above quote

http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/findsalaatinquraan.htm