How the form of salat has been preserved?
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Peace Brother Arnoldyasin
I agree with you, it will most likely take some time to come into consensus as with any valuable scholarly work. With quran-aloners it may take even longer since we seem to be pretty scattered and not in consensus with alot. So what do you suggest we do in the meantime? For some time, I must admit I stopped praying because I was so confused and didn't know what to do. This is not an option, as salat is obligatory. My solution was to pray as all Muslims do with the various rakaat, without mentioning any but Allah's name. however, still as I read thread after thread of good ijtihad from others, I find this method far from perfect. Can I ask what you do Arnold in the meantime until a consensus can arise on this issue?
Peace, your sister soul D -
Peace,
I agree mostly with this article
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat.htm
I myself pray, but i know this is not the main meaning of salat, as salat mostly refer to following the Quranic laws, but i pray, as it gives me peace. Even if it is not directly meant with salat, i like the meditate form it gives me.
Here is also a read that will explain the main meaning of salat
http//www.quranicteachings.co.uk/purpose-of-salaat.htm
http//www.quranicteachings.co.uk/salat-understanding.htmBut it is also important to read this one as it will show you that we have to look at the use of the words in the Quran, and not at the meanings directly given by us
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/name.htm
And this is an eye-opener
http//www.tolueislam.com/Parwez/ICR/ICR.htm
And i can recommend most of these articles and books
http//www.tolueislam.com/Parwez/BA_Parwez.htm
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Salam ArnoldYasin
Thanks for all these articles! I'm in the process of reading them now. Jazak Allah kheir bro and hope to discuss them soon
Peace -
Salam bro Arnoldyasin
First of all, I would like to mention your posts are very good additions in the free-minds discussion. keep up the good work.
I noticed you refer to Pervez work a lot, I myself find pervez work to be very informative and good approximation to Arabic words of the Quran. Also his views on salat is also my current understanding of the salat. I have listend to his audio lectures in urdu on salat topics and they indeed are eye opener.
peace and again keep up the good work
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Peace,
Thank you both...
And i await your opinion dear soul2squeze...
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Salam,any link on how pervez recommends we do salat?he has to many articles i cannot find the how to do salat article.Salam brothers.
Regards,
Jai -
Peace,
No, Parwez didn't discuss it on how to perform it but he did mention what it's place should be in a society, he was more busy with understanding the laws for an islamic state.
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Salam,any link on how pervez recommends we do salat?he has to many articles i cannot find the how to do salat article.Salam brothers.
Regards,
JaiSee http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=3463.msg43972#msg43972
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Peace Be Upon You Sugar
I think its blanket statement to say that Rashad Khalifa did not follow Qur'aan alone. That is not true he did follow Qur'aan alone. He did make some mistakes and errors but we should not take that and say he didn't follow Qur'aan alone no more then Progressive Muslims who have made some mistakes when it comes to the Deen. also to the Progressive Muslims who have used his translation heavily in making their translation. Rashad Khalifa has done in my opinion a good job of teaching salaat from the bases of Qur'aan alone. I have read his booklet and watched his video on salaat and they were, I think all Muslims who follow Qur'aan alone wants to learn how to do salaat should watch his video tape on it and read his boolklet.
Salam,
One way is to observe the salat as the first quranite imam of our day did.Imam rashAD KHALIFA.Salam.
Regards,
JaiRashad Khalifa did not follow Quran alone, in fact he even said (according to the site below) "if I tell you to follow anything out side the Quran, do not obey me"
http//www.quran-islam.org/176.html
The site talks about how to perform salat according the their interpretation of the Quran.
Like most of the words in the Quran "salat" is thought to be distorted, I still haven't made my mind up, you should read one of Wakas's articles.
Peace,
sugar -
Peace Be Upon You Sugar
I think its blanket statement to say that Rashad Khalifa did not follow Qur'aan alone. That is not true he did follow Qur'aan alone. He did make some mistakes and errors but we should not take that and say he didn't follow Qur'aan alone no more then Progressive Muslims who have made some mistakes when it comes to the Deen. also to the Progressive Muslims who have used his translation heavily in making their translation. Rashad Khalifa has done in my opinion a good job of teaching salaat from the bases of Qur'aan alone. I have read his booklet and watched his video on salaat and they were, I think all Muslims who follow Qur'aan alone wants to learn how to do salaat should watch his video tape on it and read his boolklet.
Salam,
One way is to observe the salat as the first quranite imam of our day did.Imam rashAD KHALIFA.Salam.
Regards,
JaiRashad Khalifa did not follow Quran alone, in fact he even said (according to the site below) "if I tell you to follow anything out side the Quran, do not obey me"
http//www.quran-islam.org/176.html
The site talks about how to perform salat according the their interpretation of the Quran.
Like most of the words in the Quran "salat" is thought to be distorted, I still haven't made my mind up, you should read one of Wakas's articles.
Peace,
sugarPeace,
Yes, i used to believe that too. He is a good between-phase going from sunnism to Quran alone. But if i have to choose between Layth's article which is based completly on Quran alone and between RK's who is based on hoping Abraham's rited are preserved(which can be found not to be so when you study salat's history), then my choice is easy. RK didn't had time to study further. Edip only discovered the Salat based on Quran alone years after RK's death. saying that the Quran refers to a ritual outside of the Quran, is the same as hadith people saying that the Quran refers to laws outside of the Quran. When you study salaat's history, you will find it has been twisted many times, and finally took over the Persian way of prayer almost completly.
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Salaam soul2squeeze
applause bravo I really like what you said and what you pointed out here.
I have followed that one thread like you started by Khidr on 3 salaat theory and it made me realize how Muslims in here perform salaat so differently and its only in here or under progressive Muslims. Muslims all over the world pray or do salaat the same way rakaats and all and those who follow Qur'aan alone out side of Progressive Muslims do salaat the same as everyone else, what Rashad Khalifa done and I have to applause him for that is that he simply used Qur'aan alone to remove some of the things placed in salaat by orthodox that contradicts the Qur'aan. I think that is an excellent method of establishing salaat that has been preserved and kept intact for generations of generations. Remember hadiths were writting 250 years after the death of Muhammad and the Muslims between that time of Muhammad's death and before hadith were written were observing salaat because it is only obvious it was well known, it was intact. I only see a form a deviation of salaat here and some of them that are deviating from the established norm of salaat are just as guilty as some of the orthodox who also have added stuff in salaat.
Salaam
Peace
I guess my bone of contention when it comes to the whole "renovation of salat" idea is that we aren't coming to any agreement. Even if we take this forum as an example, read the threads, read the various articles, no two Quran Aloners are in agreement on how salat is performed. This becomes problematic when performing the obligatory Friday prayer. If one person just meditates while another is only standing and never prostrating while yet another is done in one minute flat because all he said was Al-Fatiha - then where is the unity? This was a major argument posited by sunnis on another website. Although I wholeheartedly disagree with huge chunks of the sunni "salat"(such as invoking the prophets' names in the middle), I still need to have an alternative. What is the alternative for me? By using the quran alone in my own ijtihad, I still did not come up with a sufficient outlined way of performing salat. Rasha Khalifa outlined that the salat as it stands today with the various rakaat is correct using his mathematical equation (which I never verified for myself). But now others say modern-day salat with the different rakaat is innovation. Too many contradictions and I am also very lost on this topic.
And by the way, I would also add Abu Hanifa as one of the first Quran only scholars, whose works have been supressed and abolished before the doors of ijtihad were finally closed and locked by the muslim "scholars". So Rashad Khalifa definitely wasn't the first and insha-Allah won't be the last who makes important breakthroughs in this field. Nobody is perfect so we always must remember to weigh everything rationally for ourselves. He made some mistakes, a few MAJOR ones, but he also made many strong contributions. If it wasn't for his translation, I would never have been raised as a Submitter to the One God, without partners, elhamdulillah.
Salam -
Salaam
Rashad was more then just a go between. He followed the salaat periods mentioned in Qur'aan the Progressive Muslims here follow either 2 salaat or 3 salaat and they are suppose to be following Qur'aan alone. I'm sorry but we see this is not happening here.
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Peace No_Shirk
I am also a fan of Bro Al Khidr's explanation on the salat issue. With the exception of allthe back and forth bickering that went on between users, the thread he started was a very important thread and opened my eyes to alot of issues on salat.
I now believe that the quran is clear in explaining that there really are 5 times during the day for salat. I need to go back and quote, but I do remember one argument that anytime thikr is mentioned in the quran it has nothing to do with salat. Bro Al Khidr rightfully explained that it has everything to do with salat. Interestingly, as I was reading quran last night I came across one aya that specifically stated that thikr=salat! Praise be to God. I can't remember exactly where it is, so it will take some time for me to locate it again. God-Willing I'll find it and post it up here.
We really need to re-open the doors of ijtihad on the salat issue on this forum because there are some who believe they have reached a final conclusion. It seems that there are a few pieces to the puzzle that they missed so it would be wise to re-evaluate their conclusions.
Peace All
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Salaam Soul2Squeeze
U have said this and I would be very interesting of getting a hold of that verse-"Interestingly, as I was reading quran last night I came across one aya that specifically stated that thikr=salat! Praise be to God". If u find it please PM me here.
That article written by Brother Al Khidr was very well written and researched and it was very clear and to the point. Khidr caught A. Muhammad in a lot of ways, I don't think A. Muhammad foresaw some of his arguments. A. Muhammad made an issue about asr and maghrib not being in Qur'aan but A. Muhammad said this one verse (5249) was referring to salaat fajr and the Arabic word Fajr or Salaat was not even in that one verse which Khidr said was inconsistent or a contradiction with his reasoning or arguements or something like. So Brother Al Khidr was quick & sharp on preying on his oppenents, nothing slipped past him when it came to rebuttal his 3 Salaat article. I also did not like how many people was bickerying in that thread. That was all that they have done in that thread. That topic should have been more of an intellectual discussion between him and those who believe in 2 or 3 salaat thoery but you know those who believe in 2 or 3 salaat theory really didn't come strong and all they were able to do was bicker about every thing under the sky except the subject. But despite all the bickering there were a lot of people who like his research.
Salaam
Peace No_Shirk
I am also a fan of Bro Al Khidr's explanation on the salat issue. With the exception of allthe back and forth bickering that went on between users, the thread he started was a very important thread and opened my eyes to alot of issues on salat.
I now believe that the quran is clear in explaining that there really are 5 times during the day for salat. I need to go back and quote, but I do remember one argument that anytime thikr is mentioned in the quran it has nothing to do with salat. Bro Al Khidr rightfully explained that it has everything to do with salat. Interestingly, as I was reading quran last night I came across one aya that specifically stated that thikr=salat! Praise be to God. I can't remember exactly where it is, so it will take some time for me to locate it again. God-Willing I'll find it and post it up here.
We really need to re-open the doors of ijtihad on the salat issue on this forum because there are some who believe they have reached a final conclusion. It seems that there are a few pieces to the puzzle that they missed so it would be wise to re-evaluate their conclusions.
Peace All
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Peace Bro No-Shirk
I will surely pass it on to you bro, no problem )
I'll try to retrace my steps tonight and find it
Peace All
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Salaam Soul
Thanks and I like your new image
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Peace Bro No-Shirk
I will surely pass it on to you bro, no problem )
I'll try to retrace my steps tonight and find it
Peace All
Some help http//quranicteachings.co.uk/salat-zikr.htm
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Thanks JM
Is that ur personal website?
Salaam
Peace Bro No-Shirk
I will surely pass it on to you bro, no problem )
I'll try to retrace my steps tonight and find it
Peace All
Some help http//quranicteachings.co.uk/salat-zikr.htm