The Tragedy of TYRANNICAL-minds (formerly 'free-minds')
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Peace MQ,
I have decided to delete my post in this thread.
For one, I already know the reaction I will get for it. Second of all, it is not something that hasn't been said before. It will not change anything with these people as Layth has already pointed out.
Peace,
Damon. -
Peace all genuine guidance seekers
I think the appropriate response was in Layth's post.
May I add from memory in the Quran Do not insult what they associate with God, lest in their ignorance they will insult God Himself.
So the best strategy is to ignore the deaf, dumb, blind, as they will not return.
To them their Deen and to me mine...
Salam -
Dear Believers in Al-Quraan (AQ)
I have refrained from posting in FM for the last month or so although I have kept up-to-date with the topics being discussed. This hiatus has given me an opportunity to reevaluate Free-Minds and thus offer my humble opinions as to how I believe Free-Minds should be.
Free-Minds is the only forum on internet which does not presuppose that people who discuss AQ are automatically part of what is known in the world as 'the muslims'. This uniqueness is not iconic but serves as a platform from which we can launch into the deepest recesses of al-quraan. I cherish that platform and I hope you do as well
However, as Allah has promised, al-baathil/falsehood will gather like scum before being washed away by the ever-flowing al-haqq (13/17) and so it is the case with every human situation including forum which has become infested with certain individuals who do not or choose not to understand what this forum is about.
As Layth has defined Free-Minds as 'has been created for all people who have a desire to allow God into their lives and follow His path alone..' and that this is 'is fully outlined in the final Book of God (The Quran) which was revealed centuries ago...'
This implies that al-quraan has to be treated in the most reverent manner in this forum. It is up to the moderators to enforce this but - and I address this to people who believe in al-quraan as it should be believed in (henceforth known as 'believers'- it is up to us uphold solidarity and disallow people who treat al-quraan as a jest to gain any footing and continue their campaign of diversion.
Please note This is NOT a suggestion to stop stop allowing criticisms of AQ. Criticisms of AQ can help us to see just how invulnerable AQ is. Rather, this is a suggestion to insert fairness into a discussion. I have noticed that under the guise of freedom, much disparagement has been hurled at AQ. When the disparagement was challenged, we're either stonewalled or maligned. We believers , including the owner and moderators themselves have been made the victims in a domain which swears to uphold God's book.
The problem? We refuse to judge by al-quraan. We have chucked away the shackles of traditionalism but have tacitly imported the shackles of modernism. We are told that AQ proposes laws which are barbaric and out-of-date and yet we still call people who say this as 'brother' or 'sister'. Is this right?
AQ
Have you not seen those who claim to have believed in what was revealed to you, , and what was revealed before you? They wish to refer legislation to Taghut, while they were commanded to reject it; and Satan wishes to lead them far astray. (4/60)Allah is clearly telling us what these critics are all about. If you do not wish to refer to Allah, by definition you wish to refer to at-taghuut (authority figures who TRANSGRESS) and yet these people are openly telling the believers to do so. AQ tells us that this is shaitaan's wish.
If we need more proof, we are told by some of these people that their indulgence in alcohol is OK and that they find triumph from influencing people to consume alcohol. Alcohol, part of al-khamr or intoxicants is the work of ASH-SHAITAAN and we are to steer clear away from it (5/90-91). If anyone disagrees with AQ, fine but should believers be made to listen to their satanic discourses in the believer's own area?
What happens when we do not judge according to Allah's will? We become fasiqeen (5/47) and will any be destroyed EXCEPT the fasiqeen (46/35)
I have chosen to be inactive for the simple reason that I feel my responses will be obfuscated by their volume of non-believers in this forum. Until we the believers take charge and say, this is a QURANIC forum and if you want to discuss, discuss under Quran's rules, no progress shall be made. Do not be afraid to label people who advocated kufr as they should be labelled and treat them as they choose to be treated.
Do not let free-minds become TYRANNICAL-minds.Wasalam.
Salam Mquran,
I certainly agree with you bro, from last couple of months this place is a mess. If it doesnt change soon, many folks like you will leave and the nonbelievers will shadow this place.
A sad ending for a nice place like this.
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Salaams,
I was wondering where mquran has got to -good to see you still active Br.
Salaams.
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I dont think you guys need to inject our spiritual beliefs so much into this debate, because at this debate's core is this In a forum there are sometimes people called 'trolls', when a troll appears it is warned not to cause trouble, if the troll continues to harass people or not contribute anything worthwile to the forums then it is banned. Simple as that. Banning trolls keeps the forum clean and friendly. Not banning anyone out of fear of being called a dictator or whatever will ultimately lead to a chaotic and very unfriendly forum. So its the administrator's choice really.
There is the real world and there is a forum, lets not get things mixed up, but if you really want to play at analogies, in the real world when people commit crimes they get sent to prison, know what I mean?
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Mehdi believe the dissapointment is due to the haughtiness who continuely believe they are better than... and cointuely call others disbelievers... or kaufar.. etc.. this form of arrogance has it's own punishment... even if it's as small as a sense of dissapointment in others.. which in itself is a form of arrogance.. and none submission to the will of Allah..
Mehdi, it's no surprise that you'd say this given your lackadiscal attitude about responsibility. Shooting your mouth off and refusing to define your own terms is your trademark.
AQ commands us to call certain people 'al-kafiroon'. So will you reject Allah's command?
Arrogance was the fall of Ibilis...
Arrogance is when you refuse to even face criticism. When you take the time to answer and your opponent acts like you or Enquirer, thats not arrogance. That's a justified demand.
so with that said... Mquran.. knock if off! will ya... stick around... the runner will always run... why not face it and deal with it correctly..
I'd be happy to stick around but where insults are being hurled towards AQ and whenever believers (once again, please note how im using the word as in my first post) defend it, they are ignored or abused, then it's not the best use of my time.
whatever desicion you make... peace be on you.. and please don't be so quick to judge...
For a guy who wasnt here during the 'quranic divinity' season, you're telling me not to be 'quick to judge'? But whatever..peace.
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In my village - now long gone - there's an anecdote about people who allow their chickens, nay encourage thier chickens to their neighbours gardens so that when the chickens leave their droppings, its the neighbours who'll have to clean it up. So if their neighbours are too busy or there is just too many droppings, the neighbours house will look like one big faeces dump. Going into another persons domain, leaving your droppings and ignoring them isn't cool.
Sadly,this is what happens in FM.
It's a shame because FM started out well but inevitably attracted the wrong sort of crowd verbal defecators who came, left their droppings and went to other spots to leave even more droppings. In this thread itself we can see Mr Mehdi coming up with an opening remark only to show a consipicous lack of arguments. One wonders what book he relies on because opening AQ is never on his agenda. He even called FM 'a sect about nothing' yet he is still here.
AQ isn't 'nothing'. It's our chosen belief system and we have the right to display it in the most positive manner despite Mehdi, Enquirer, Lote-tree, Danish and others like them.
Criticism is a good thing. There's no harm per se in saying 'AQ is an old book, not suitable for modern times' but if you're going to say it, stand by it. What is modernity and why is it our criteria? This the critics of AQ have refused to face. This isn't about accepting AQ as divine, this is about decency. Are you decent enough to respect your discussion partner or debate opponent? Many people here are not. They are here to simply exalt in their 'transcendence' of religion. They say they have 'evolved' but I say they are devolved because evolved individuals are honest, decent and responsible.
It's time for me to hibernate again, with my own projects etc. For the believers in this forum, lets think about how we can clean up this forum. If we cannot do it via authority, perhaps a show of solidarity?
Thanks for your time.
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Salam.
If nothing, let's start with this at least, let's agree to disagree on certain things, we don't need to call each other names, we don't need to argue, we don't need to fight, just agree to disagree and then let's open a new topic.
May Allah Most Wise, Most High, guide us all to Heaven.
Salam. -
This isn't about accepting AQ as divine, this is about decency. Are you decent enough to respect your discussion partner or debate opponent? Many people here are not.
This is exactly what I've been saying to enquirer. I don't care about anyone's beliefs, I just want to discuss. Yet when I offer, he attacks me or attacks the argument, never discusses. Very disrespectful on a forum.
Peace
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salam Layth.
I believe your dissapointment is partially caused by your desire to change what cannot be changed...
We have been told by the Almighty that most people do not believe in God...We have been told that most of those who believe do so while setting-up partners...We have been told that many follow Satan and believe they are guided...
I think the disappointment is not about preventing people from disbelieving in Allah, setting up partners or following shaitaan. it is about the rejecters and the satan followers ruining the discussion and messing up the forum. .
You can't stop them from disbelieving, but you can stop them from messing up this forum.
Therefore, if this forum is only a small reflection of the
real worldthen we should come to expect this large mix of people.people get punished in the ?real world?.
The solution is not to lock everyone out, but to react in the manner that God has told us...
Not everyone. Only the trouble makers.
When someone is being ignorant, simply let them be and respond to them with `peace'.
When the Quran is being ridiculed or mocked, then the discussion is to be abondoned/walked-away from until the theme of talk changes.
Huh?! Why should they be allowed to mock the Quran(!!!) in a Quranic forum , a Quranic domain , to begin with? This is very sad , bro Layth.
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I dont think you guys need to inject our spiritual beliefs so much into this debate, because at this debate's core is this In a forum there are sometimes people called 'trolls', when a troll appears it is warned not to cause trouble, if the troll continues to harass people or not contribute anything worthwile to the forums then it is banned. Simple as that. Banning trolls keeps the forum clean and friendly. Not banning anyone out of fear of being called a dictator or whatever will ultimately lead to a chaotic and very unfriendly forum. So its the administrator's choice really.
There is the real world and there is a forum, lets not get things mixed up, but if you really want to play at analogies, in the real world when people commit crimes they get sent to prison, know what I mean?
exactly!
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peace
This is the problem
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Free-minds is getting bigger. More people means more idiots. There's a good and bad to everything. Deal with it (or them...)
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People are attacking people. Discussions should be about what people say, not the people themselves. This thread is a perfect example. Stop these personal attacks and stick to the arguments/understanding/point of view discussion.
This is what I do
rules for dealing with someone who doesn't answer your question
1.do not insult them (name calling is no-no)
2.keep replying to their post (or you become the "dodger"
3.keep repeating your question in every post.rules for dealing with a person who insults you
1.do not insult them
2.do not keep replying to their post
3.complain to a mod if it's getting really bad
(once I compiled a list of quotes and what not and posted it...don't ever do that)rules for dealing with people who insult the Quran without any evidence
1.do not insult them
2.keep replying to their posts
3.create another thread or something where you can ask them straight forward questions (if they are dodgers) and have a one on one debate if you need to. You can just ask other posters not to post.And please remember that this is an online forum. People aren't talking directly to eachother. Misunderstandings happen. So be more forgiving.
peace -
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Salam, )
Sometimes I think that the worst part of free-minds.org is its forum. It causes divisions, confusions, and hostilities among people who have been attracted to the concept of God only by the great articles in the main page. Everytime there is a topic regarding certain things in Al Quran, people who remind me of those arrogant and idiotic imams, who think they know better and look down on others, often come up and attack one another in shameful manners. This is why I have pretty much quit paying attention to particular sections in this forum which are full of topics that draw the attention of those taliban-like kind of people -[.
For me, the best sections in this forum are the ones where people are just mingling and sharing their personal experiences in life or opinions over current events without getting in the way of other peoples relationship with God.
The most important messages of this free-minds community are that people should stop setting up partners with God and stop integrating traditions and customs into God's system and calling them commands from Him. And I think those are the only things that should be emphasized to the visitors of this site. This site should not make people sickened by 'off topic' arguments such as the ones involving salat or fasting. It does not matter how Muslims/Submitters conduct their prayers or other rituals so long as they stop killing or oppressing one another and other people because they think God or the Prophet orders them to do so -.
Nevertheless, I value freedom of expression. So if this forum is still going to exist, then people should be allowed to say anything they want in certain manners. Otherwise, there should be no forum at all. By the way, anyone know what happen with brother Agentxxx? He is the most admirable person in this community and I haven't seen his post for a while.
For brother Layth or other administrators, if it is possible please make the most important rules of the forum more visible because everybody know that only a few people ever bother to explore the forum rules .
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The theme of this thread delegated by an ?ayatollah? (prophet of doom) is to establish yet another institution representing a ruthless tyrannical and dictatorial clown clone of a fake believer who yells out words like "Allahu Akbar" and calling all others 'kafirs', 'devils', 'gutless devils', ?shaytaan?, ?evil doers?, ?quran bashers?, etc. and challenging them without functional weapons of defense running amok and eventually getting his purchased relentless cheerleaders destroyed in his own stinking sinking boat. Such extremists and bigots must be avoided at all costs; else our natural resources and laws of survival will suffocate and drown all ?real believers? enforced by the fake ones.
"amok or amuck"
In a frenzy to do violence or kill rioters running amuck in the streets.
In or into a jumbled or confused state The plans went amuck.
In or into an uncontrolled state or a state of extreme activity
Crazed with murderous frenzy amuck troops.Watch and enjoy this video and see how a ?ayatollah? behaves which is a typical representation of a frustrated clergymen like mquran
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBplylx55Zc&mode=related&search=mullah -
Peace Bro MQuran
It is such a pleasant surprise to see a post from you after so long!
I think this thread is very important in addressing concerns that we've all encountered recently on this forum.
I wouldn't want you leaving this forum, bro. There are many dissenting voices on this forum, which gives an ever more pressing need to allow your voice to be heard!
If all believers in quran packed up and shipped out, what would become of this forum ?
Let's all take this thread as a reminder of how we should approach discussions on this forum and stick to the Islamic etiquette outlined for us in the quran. We can't control other's actions and reactions... only our own.
Peace All