The Tragedy of TYRANNICAL-minds (formerly 'free-minds')
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In my village - now long gone - there's an anecdote about people who allow their chickens, nay encourage thier chickens to their neighbours gardens so that when the chickens leave their droppings, its the neighbours who'll have to clean it up. So if their neighbours are too busy or there is just too many droppings, the neighbours house will look like one big faeces dump. Going into another persons domain, leaving your droppings and ignoring them isn't cool.
Sadly,this is what happens in FM.
It's a shame because FM started out well but inevitably attracted the wrong sort of crowd verbal defecators who came, left their droppings and went to other spots to leave even more droppings. In this thread itself we can see Mr Mehdi coming up with an opening remark only to show a consipicous lack of arguments. One wonders what book he relies on because opening AQ is never on his agenda. He even called FM 'a sect about nothing' yet he is still here.
AQ isn't 'nothing'. It's our chosen belief system and we have the right to display it in the most positive manner despite Mehdi, Enquirer, Lote-tree, Danish and others like them.
Criticism is a good thing. There's no harm per se in saying 'AQ is an old book, not suitable for modern times' but if you're going to say it, stand by it. What is modernity and why is it our criteria? This the critics of AQ have refused to face. This isn't about accepting AQ as divine, this is about decency. Are you decent enough to respect your discussion partner or debate opponent? Many people here are not. They are here to simply exalt in their 'transcendence' of religion. They say they have 'evolved' but I say they are devolved because evolved individuals are honest, decent and responsible.
It's time for me to hibernate again, with my own projects etc. For the believers in this forum, lets think about how we can clean up this forum. If we cannot do it via authority, perhaps a show of solidarity?
Thanks for your time.
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Salam.
If nothing, let's start with this at least, let's agree to disagree on certain things, we don't need to call each other names, we don't need to argue, we don't need to fight, just agree to disagree and then let's open a new topic.
May Allah Most Wise, Most High, guide us all to Heaven.
Salam. -
This isn't about accepting AQ as divine, this is about decency. Are you decent enough to respect your discussion partner or debate opponent? Many people here are not.
This is exactly what I've been saying to enquirer. I don't care about anyone's beliefs, I just want to discuss. Yet when I offer, he attacks me or attacks the argument, never discusses. Very disrespectful on a forum.
Peace
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salam Layth.
I believe your dissapointment is partially caused by your desire to change what cannot be changed...
We have been told by the Almighty that most people do not believe in God...We have been told that most of those who believe do so while setting-up partners...We have been told that many follow Satan and believe they are guided...
I think the disappointment is not about preventing people from disbelieving in Allah, setting up partners or following shaitaan. it is about the rejecters and the satan followers ruining the discussion and messing up the forum. .
You can't stop them from disbelieving, but you can stop them from messing up this forum.
Therefore, if this forum is only a small reflection of the
real worldthen we should come to expect this large mix of people.people get punished in the ?real world?.
The solution is not to lock everyone out, but to react in the manner that God has told us...
Not everyone. Only the trouble makers.
When someone is being ignorant, simply let them be and respond to them with `peace'.
When the Quran is being ridiculed or mocked, then the discussion is to be abondoned/walked-away from until the theme of talk changes.
Huh?! Why should they be allowed to mock the Quran(!!!) in a Quranic forum , a Quranic domain , to begin with? This is very sad , bro Layth.
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I dont think you guys need to inject our spiritual beliefs so much into this debate, because at this debate's core is this In a forum there are sometimes people called 'trolls', when a troll appears it is warned not to cause trouble, if the troll continues to harass people or not contribute anything worthwile to the forums then it is banned. Simple as that. Banning trolls keeps the forum clean and friendly. Not banning anyone out of fear of being called a dictator or whatever will ultimately lead to a chaotic and very unfriendly forum. So its the administrator's choice really.
There is the real world and there is a forum, lets not get things mixed up, but if you really want to play at analogies, in the real world when people commit crimes they get sent to prison, know what I mean?
exactly!
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peace
This is the problem
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Free-minds is getting bigger. More people means more idiots. There's a good and bad to everything. Deal with it (or them...)
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People are attacking people. Discussions should be about what people say, not the people themselves. This thread is a perfect example. Stop these personal attacks and stick to the arguments/understanding/point of view discussion.
This is what I do
rules for dealing with someone who doesn't answer your question
1.do not insult them (name calling is no-no)
2.keep replying to their post (or you become the "dodger"
3.keep repeating your question in every post.rules for dealing with a person who insults you
1.do not insult them
2.do not keep replying to their post
3.complain to a mod if it's getting really bad
(once I compiled a list of quotes and what not and posted it...don't ever do that)rules for dealing with people who insult the Quran without any evidence
1.do not insult them
2.keep replying to their posts
3.create another thread or something where you can ask them straight forward questions (if they are dodgers) and have a one on one debate if you need to. You can just ask other posters not to post.And please remember that this is an online forum. People aren't talking directly to eachother. Misunderstandings happen. So be more forgiving.
peace -
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Salam, )
Sometimes I think that the worst part of free-minds.org is its forum. It causes divisions, confusions, and hostilities among people who have been attracted to the concept of God only by the great articles in the main page. Everytime there is a topic regarding certain things in Al Quran, people who remind me of those arrogant and idiotic imams, who think they know better and look down on others, often come up and attack one another in shameful manners. This is why I have pretty much quit paying attention to particular sections in this forum which are full of topics that draw the attention of those taliban-like kind of people -[.
For me, the best sections in this forum are the ones where people are just mingling and sharing their personal experiences in life or opinions over current events without getting in the way of other peoples relationship with God.
The most important messages of this free-minds community are that people should stop setting up partners with God and stop integrating traditions and customs into God's system and calling them commands from Him. And I think those are the only things that should be emphasized to the visitors of this site. This site should not make people sickened by 'off topic' arguments such as the ones involving salat or fasting. It does not matter how Muslims/Submitters conduct their prayers or other rituals so long as they stop killing or oppressing one another and other people because they think God or the Prophet orders them to do so -.
Nevertheless, I value freedom of expression. So if this forum is still going to exist, then people should be allowed to say anything they want in certain manners. Otherwise, there should be no forum at all. By the way, anyone know what happen with brother Agentxxx? He is the most admirable person in this community and I haven't seen his post for a while.
For brother Layth or other administrators, if it is possible please make the most important rules of the forum more visible because everybody know that only a few people ever bother to explore the forum rules .
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The theme of this thread delegated by an ?ayatollah? (prophet of doom) is to establish yet another institution representing a ruthless tyrannical and dictatorial clown clone of a fake believer who yells out words like "Allahu Akbar" and calling all others 'kafirs', 'devils', 'gutless devils', ?shaytaan?, ?evil doers?, ?quran bashers?, etc. and challenging them without functional weapons of defense running amok and eventually getting his purchased relentless cheerleaders destroyed in his own stinking sinking boat. Such extremists and bigots must be avoided at all costs; else our natural resources and laws of survival will suffocate and drown all ?real believers? enforced by the fake ones.
"amok or amuck"
In a frenzy to do violence or kill rioters running amuck in the streets.
In or into a jumbled or confused state The plans went amuck.
In or into an uncontrolled state or a state of extreme activity
Crazed with murderous frenzy amuck troops.Watch and enjoy this video and see how a ?ayatollah? behaves which is a typical representation of a frustrated clergymen like mquran
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBplylx55Zc&mode=related&search=mullah -
Peace Bro MQuran
It is such a pleasant surprise to see a post from you after so long!
I think this thread is very important in addressing concerns that we've all encountered recently on this forum.
I wouldn't want you leaving this forum, bro. There are many dissenting voices on this forum, which gives an ever more pressing need to allow your voice to be heard!
If all believers in quran packed up and shipped out, what would become of this forum ?
Let's all take this thread as a reminder of how we should approach discussions on this forum and stick to the Islamic etiquette outlined for us in the quran. We can't control other's actions and reactions... only our own.
Peace All
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Salam, )
Sometimes I think that the worst part of free-minds.org is its forum. It causes divisions, confusions, and hostilities among people who have been attracted to the concept of God only by the great articles in the main page. Everytime there is a topic regarding certain things in Al Quran, people who remind me of those arrogant and idiotic imams, who think they know better and look down on others, often come up and attack one another in shameful manners. This is why I have pretty much quit paying attention to particular sections in this forum which are full of topics that draw the attention of those taliban-like kind of people -[.
The most important messages of this free-minds community are that people should stop setting up partners with God and stop integrating traditions and customs into God's system and calling them commands from Him. And I think those are the only things that should be emphasized to the visitors of this site. This site should not make people sickened by 'off topic' arguments such as the ones involving salat or fasting. It does not matter how Muslims/Submitters conduct their prayers or other rituals so long as they stop killing or oppressing one another and other people because they think God or the Prophet orders them to do so -.
Nevertheless, I value freedom of expression. So if this forum is still going to exist, then people should be allowed to say anything they want in certain manners. Otherwise, there should be no forum at all. By the way, anyone know what happen with brother Agentxxx? He is the most admirable person in this community and I haven't seen his post for a while.
I respect your even-handed views.
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Peace Bro MQuran
It is such a pleasant surprise to see a post from you after so long!
I think this thread is very important in addressing concerns that we've all encountered recently on this forum.
I wouldn't want you leaving this forum, bro. There are many dissenting voices on this forum, which gives an ever more pressing need to allow your voice to be heard!
If all believers in quran packed up and shipped out, what would become of this forum ?
Let's all take this thread as a reminder of how we should approach discussions on this forum and stick to the Islamic etiquette outlined for us in the quran. We can't control other's actions and reactions... only our own.
Peace All
peace all,
And i certainlty second the opinion of S2S.
peace
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Peace Bro MQuran
It is such a pleasant surprise to see a post from you after so long!
I think this thread is very important in addressing concerns that we've all encountered recently on this forum.
I wouldn't want you leaving this forum, bro. There are many dissenting voices on this forum, which gives an ever more pressing need to allow your voice to be heard!
If all believers in quran packed up and shipped out, what would become of this forum ?
Let's all take this thread as a reminder of how we should approach discussions on this forum and stick to the Islamic etiquette outlined for us in the quran. We can't control other's actions and reactions... only our own.
Peace All
I totally agree with S2S. I do not understand this defeatism you are showing, mq, because that's not you. Yes, leaving, or thinking of leaving the forum is defeatism, and that's what many want that this forum collapses.So please let's not give them this opportunity.
I think everybody should just keep away from replying to a post they think futile to argue with, or posters who mock Allah or his verses, and as Layth said, just reply with "peace". Others will understand and refrain from engaging in the discussion untill the subject is changed. Let the others leave, not you, not us.
Frankly, I sometimes wonder what some do in this forum, wasting their time in something they neither believe in nor have any respect for. We learn, so we are the winners by all means.
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Peace Bro mquran
I changed my username to start on a new slate as I made the mistake to argue with some individuals.
Since then, I just refuse to be drawn into a discussion where the Quran is defiled, full stop.
I am very happy about what I learnt on the main web site, and sometimes on some threads.
It will be nice to see the forum grow into a supportive medium to encourage appreciation and gratefulness to Allah rather than as a platform to create doubts about Him.
What I find most interesting, and maybe appalling is that some of the most argumentative elements in the forum have the worst mental filters regarding the ones calling themselves muslims.
As if calling oneself a muslim automatically means being a bigot, a terrorist or a mullah.
But this is a reflection of what the media do to the collective unconscious of people (manufacturing consent as Noam Chomsky so beautifully puts it).
God bless the genuine guidance seekers
Noble -
I wouldn't want you leaving this forum, bro. There are many dissenting voices on this forum, which gives an ever more pressing need to allow your voice to be heard!
If only he had a "VOICE" to be heard. His aim is to ban all non-quranists, whether one believes in GOD or not, and claim his victorious outcry. According to him, it seems all non-quranists are "gutless devils" and "evil-doers". Shamefully, he doesn't understand the Quran himself and displays his "ayatollah" rhetorics.
If all believers in quran packed up and shipped out, what would become of this forum?
Live in reality and truth, not in books. A forum is a collective discussion zone. Like forums, books are created by men and only meant to be read, understood and reflected upon. Neither the books nor the forums came floating down out of thin air.
Let's all take this thread as a reminder of how we should approach discussions on this forum and stick to the Islamic etiquette outlined for us in the quran. We can't control other's actions and reactions... only our own.
Behavioral and moral etiquettes of mankind are not the sole properties of Quran. These patterns already existed and made their debut long before Quran and much of its laws excelled. Basic fundamentals and principles of living a righteous, meaningful and purposeful life has, will and always remain with or without the Quran. Segregating a book in every respect, especially of an ancient descent, is isolating part and parcel of mankind to live TODAY under its historic rules. Very funny indeed.
I think everybody should just keep away from replying to a post they think futile to argue with, or posters who mock Allah or his verses
Who's mocking Allah and his verses seems beyond your comprehension? Look into yourselves before making such volumptuous claims.
Frankly, I sometimes wonder what some do in this forum, wasting their time in something they neither believe in nor have any respect for. We learn, so we are the winners by all means.
I wonder the same about you.
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Danish, what is your goal at this forum?
That is a question i was asking myself, look at the irrelevent video he posted that has noting to do with this thread
that is what he always do, try to disturb the enviroment with some negative crap against Islam and the Quran
this tells me that he is very itchy and unsecure to what he believes in, you know similar to those mass killers suiciders who can't face death alone so they try to kill as many as they can with them
therefore as far as I'm concerned Danish goal is to take as many as he can with him to HELL due to the huge unsecurity he is suffering on a daily basis, ironically he does not know that this is his goal
Salam
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Peace m,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and good to see you back. And if you have to leave again, then please return without delay. I've always, from my first day here, viewed you and a handful of others as the pillars of this forum. Sadly, all the pillars are posting less and less, leaving the "space" open for the babble to pour in.
I've been brainstorming for the last few months on how we can improve things. The conclusion that I've come to is that no amount of legislation would be effective in ridding this place of the unwanted elements without choking the freedom bandwidth, if you will.
An objective look at the discussions, from say 12-15 months ago, compared to now reveals one thing to me, and that is the quantity vs. quality ratio. There weren't necessarily more discussions or less, but the people involved in most discussions were more open and respectful compared to now.
I know many people here probably have issues with any sort of behavioral "policing". But the fact of the matter is that in real life, if someone is acting like an ass, we usually walk away or start a fight. But here, it's ok to act like an ass so long as the rules aren't broken. One doesn't have to blatantly insult someone else in order to insult someone else.
I include myself in hoping that all of us people (without any label) will just take a moment to reflect on our behaviors. A spark without fuel cannot become a flame. Let's keep the fuel to a minimum and remind each other when progress is sacrificed in the name of pride.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace all
I'd like everyone to read or to scan through these threads to get an idea of what mquran is partially talking about.
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5550.0
Already, on page one, enquirer fails to bring the verses that HE IS TALKING ABOUT. Sister Nadia had to bring forth the verses. With no need, enquirer starts off with an arrogant and mocking tone.
From this next one, I will use the "discussion" between him and CavemanDoctor
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5872.15
CavemanDoctor makes a long 2-post reply to every single one of his arguments. All is going well so far.
On the next page, enquirer says this
Peace all. ps;caveman doctor; I willl respond to your thesis later... Wink
Fair enough.
A day later, enquirer "responds."
Cavemandoctor; One major problem with your example...The tv instructions dont claim to be divine,complete,or for all times.....
This is whole response to CavemanDoctor's "thesis." After ten pages of this, enquirer just takes a little vacation until everyone forgets. Eventually he comes back and starts another thread just like these. This in itself, shows that enquirer has some agenda, and is not here to sincerely discuss things.
This is very, very disrespectful and should not be tolerated. THIS is what mquran is talking about.
I, for one, am very fond of discussing things, especially things regarding the Qur'an and whether it is divine or not. However, it is not productive and almost pointless to have a debate with people like enquirer. This is just two threads, a small portion of the whole.
I am all for having debates. I'm also for freedom of speech on this forum, but people who clearly have hidden agendas and people who are disrespectful in discussions need to go. I don't label people by their beliefs, but by their behavior.
People like that must go.
Peace.
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Peace
I do not necessarily agree with everything mquran says, but I know exactly where he is coming from. People like enquirer have frustrated him. That's where it's coming from. I know a few people, including myself who have also gotten very frustrated for the same reasons. Again, there are always, and still are, a few people who do not care about discussing, rather, they have hidden agendas. They need to leave.