You Have Been Warned
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Peace AhmedBahgat
that hell of the movie is the same hell some Christian priests and nuns portrayed, the red colour, the flames, the bones, the ugly faces, ...
The Hell topic is what made me feel interested in Islam. Before a muslim told me about it, I thought nobody really believed in that. I knew it was a common topic in Christianity but not in my environement where religious hell and heaven are just tales.
I am grateful to that muslim, for me they are still tales, but I ended reading and discussing online and offline the best things and I could know about Metu Neter and other great books.
Peace sister
sure and this tells me that all religions came from the one and only God, but I just don'd understand what you mean by it still tales for you?
do you believe Jahannam is a physical place or not?
Cheers
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Peace
Sis Samia
I believe from using self referencing within Quran, Yakhsha means to fear, even the explanation of the skin crawling is associated with fear physically.
Allah gets into a dialogue with the People of the Scriptures who advocate Love of God, Allah responds that if they loved Him, why are they not following the guidance.
Furthermore, I think people are very uncomfortable with this idea of fear because they look at God in a very anthropomorphic way, ie through the filters that he should behave like us, and that scaring us is not fair, He should love us. With the associated connotations of pleasure associated with Love and the pain asscociated with Fear.
However that Fear is not acted upon by Allah (towards believers), it is just a mark of respect. Allah says that He is not respected the way He should be respected despite the Heavens and the Earths will be in the clutches of His Power on Doomsday.
Salam
NoblePeace Noble,
This was the question
You have to question yourself, by what are you motivated? And more especially If there were no reward or punishment, would you have still done good, would you have still obeyed God? Answer this question and you will understand the core of your being, the motivator of all your deeds.....
Would you still do only good deeds if there was no reward or punishment? People mostly fear God as they need it to stay on the right path. This is not wrong by itself, but eventualy it must be left behind, as the soul must become so pure it doesn't need reward or punishment to be good, it just IS good.
It is a yes or no question, but don't answer me, answer it to yourself....
Peace
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Peace ahmed
Salam Elke
you said For some reason that I don't know I expected you to be the first to reply to my comment, I swear, man
that proves that you have a great deal of sensibility that - really, no offence intended, i would not have expected.
I guess it was the sixth sense
I congratulate you for that and propose that you try, from time to time, to look at yourself from far away,
Thanks for the advice, but why I have to look at myself from far away, can't I look at myself from a close point?
as if you saw a stranger.
oh no, it is impossible that I will be stranger to myself, hmmm, does not make sense sister
I do it often for myself and it teaches me a lot about myself and my numerous flaws.
Did you see yourself as a stranger?
if you felt my reaction, i'm sure you'll be able to do this !
well, I do it everyday actually, but I look at myself from close by not from far away, also I find no strangers when I do it.
I can live with the fact that you'll not consider me a muslim
Actually i never said that, all I said supporting someone who claims that Mohammad was not real will make YOUR ISLAM questionable, not by me but by Allah, as He told us in te Quran that Mohammad was a real person as all other prohets were and guess what?, a Muslim should believe in that
and shall not anymore take this as an offence -
People should not take the truth as an offence, they should learn how to handle the truth
as i did previously when it came from mquran. It is clear that i do not fit in your definition and i can only hope that God will think differently.
salaams, lk
Of course God thinks different to humans, however He told us many things of what He is thinking about
Salam
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Salaam all
I very much enjoyed the post by Arnoldyasin, because I feel it is much nearer to the meaning of the verb mistakenly translated as "fear" where Allah is concerned. The Arabic translation of "to fear" is "yakhaaf"; which is not at all used by Allah for "fear Allah". The verb used is "yakhsha Allah".
One of the rare usages of this verb in the spoken Arabic is when you say something like "I am afraid you will miss the train if you take the bus". This does not involve fear, but concern. It is not at all appropriate to use this verb for being afraid from someone, but you may use it in "being concerned" about the anger, for example, of someone you care for. Otherwise it is exclusively for Allah.
A derived verb is "yakhtashi", which means to be embarrassed, usually used in a kinder way than "to be ashamed".
I know that all Arabic and English dictionaries explain/translate the verb "yakhsha" as "to be afraid"; but simply because there is no other word to explain it. It is not to find a synonym for, but to be understood in context. Or maybe because humans still do not understand how obedience as a result of love is deeper and more evolved than fobedience out of fear "khawf"
Peace Samia
Just to let you know that "Khashia" has nothing to do with "Ikhtasha", it is just a case of similar letters and I know this confuses many new Arabic commers, what you should know that the word "Ikhtasha", is the "Masddar" "The root" itself and it is one of those 5 letters roots, like "Igtmaa", "Iktafa", "Izdahara
The Alif and Ta in Ikhtasha CAN NOT BE DROPPED to determine the "Masddar"
Salam
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Peace
Sis Samia
I believe from using self referencing within Quran, Yakhsha means to fear, even the explanation of the skin crawling is associated with fear physically.
Allah gets into a dialogue with the People of the Scriptures who advocate Love of God, Allah responds that if they loved Him, why are they not following the guidance.
Furthermore, I think people are very uncomfortable with this idea of fear because they look at God in a very anthropomorphic way, ie through the filters that he should behave like us, and that scaring us is not fair, He should love us. With the associated connotations of pleasure associated with Love and the pain asscociated with Fear.
However that Fear is not acted upon by Allah (towards believers), it is just a mark of respect. Allah says that He is not respected the way He should be respected despite the Heavens and the Earths will be in the clutches of His Power on Doomsday.
Salam
NoblePeace bro
Not fearing Allah is called ARROGANCE and the Quran told us clearly that Allah does not like those arrogant
their limited knowledge about Allah is the reason for sure, they can't think that FEARING Allah is also part of the test, the test is not believeing in Allah alone, it is believing in all what He said
Salam bro
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Peace Ahmed, all,
I'm sure Kyle can speak for himself, but I just thought I'd point out that there is a difference between "fearing Allah" and "being motivated by the fear of Allah".
Peace Tay
Mate, this is confusing and very vague, motivated to do what exactly?, study, eat, travel, etc?. or motivated to believe in Allah?
If he meant the latest, then thanks for the laugh, a clear cut contradiction indeed for someone who says Mohammad never existed
In my understanding, al-qur'an speaks to both avenues. Some people are motivated by fear, some by love, most need both. At any rate, one can surely be motivated by love while still fearing the Almighty.
Peace,
TayMotivation has nothing to do with fearing Allah, I just don?t understand how the hell someone in total fear can be motivated to do anything?, it does NOT add up bro
Salam
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Peace,
If you do a good deed because you fear you get punished by God if you don't do it, then you are not good by nature.
Brother Arnold
Allah does not punish for not doing the good, He punishes for doing the bad, but was a nice twist by you
Cheers
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Salam,
My answer is i follow God's advice.The quran details a beautiful road map to life,and I just follow God's advice there how best to live and do good,the reward are a welcome consequential benefit,but the joy comes from obeying my creator,trusting his advice and following it.
Peace
Exactly, and please tell me bro, how simple you found the above simple?
cheers
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Hello All
Let me show these verses before I take my daughter to school and head to work for a busy day
57 Verily those who live in awe for fear of their Lord;
58 Those who believe in the Signs of their Lord;
59 Those who join not (in worship) partners with their Lord;
60 And those who dispense their charity with their hearts full of fear, because they will return to their Lord;-
61 It is these who hasten in every good work, and these who are foremost in them.
(57)
(5
(59)
(60)
(61)-> The above verses again describe the true believers, these beliebers who have NOTHING to be embarrassed of
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57 Verily those who live in awe for fear of their Lord;
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58 Those who believe in the Signs of their Lord;
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59 Those who join not (in worship) partners with their Lord;
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60 And those who dispense their charity with their hearts full of fear, because they will return to their Lord;-
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61 It is these who hasten in every good work, and these who are foremost in them.
Now why those who do what is listed in 2,3,4, 5 be embarrassed of Allah as stated in 1?, see it does not make sense
The word Ikhtasha ?embarrassed? is totally different Arabic word that happens to have the ?Kha, Sheen and Ya?
Salam
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Peace
I cannot conceive of goodness without its opposite.
Goodness will be fully discriminated from Evilness after JD, but at the moment, my state is that I have to fight my Ego so that I keep on the side of what Allah wants me to be and do, which is Goodness according to His definition.
Straying from that is Evilness, and my Ego wants me badly to commit evil everyday.
This battle against the Ego is the Striving that Allah enjoins in the Quran, and one of the weapons He gave me is the fear oh His wrath.
Sanitising this and sugar coating it with drama queen kind of arguments such as being good at the core, and all, is nonsensical.
One is either striving towards good or towards evil, this is our lot on this planet, until we die and get ressurected...
This is the truth as plain as the eye can see and the ear can hear...
Salam
Noble -
Hello All
Let me show these verses before I take my daughter to school and head to work for a busy day
57 Verily those who live in awe for fear of their Lord;
58 Those who believe in the Signs of their Lord;
59 Those who join not (in worship) partners with their Lord;
60 And those who dispense their charity with their hearts full of fear, because they will return to their Lord;-
61 It is these who hasten in every good work, and these who are foremost in them.
(57)
(5
(59)
(60)
(61)-> The above verses again describe the true believers, these beliebers who have NOTHING to be embarrassed of
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57 Verily those who live in awe for fear of their Lord;
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58 Those who believe in the Signs of their Lord;
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59 Those who join not (in worship) partners with their Lord;
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60 And those who dispense their charity with their hearts full of fear, because they will return to their Lord;-
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61 It is these who hasten in every good work, and these who are foremost in them.
Now why those who do what is listed in 2,3,4, 5 be embarrassed of Allah as stated in 1?, see it does not make sense
The word Ikhtasha ?embarrassed? is totally different Arabic word that happens to have the ?Kha, Sheen and Ya?
Salam
Who said anything about embarrassed, though? Just wondering.
Peace
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Peace Ahmed,
Here's an example
Dad(to son) You come home before it get's dark or else.
Son OK dad.See, the son is motivated by the fear of Dad's wrath. People at certain jobs are motivated to produce and get to work on time based on the fear of losing their jobs. Children in school are motivated to stay out of trouble based on fear of getting suspended or expelled or their parents being called in.
a clear cut contradiction indeed for someone who says Mohammad never existed
Quote where I ever said this, or stand corrected.
Motivation has nothing to do with fearing Allah, I just don?t understand how the hell someone in total fear can be motivated to do anything?, it does NOT add up bro
It adds up perfectly Ahmed. There is positive reinforcement, and there is negative reinforcement, and both can be found in plenty within al-qur'an.
Peace,
Tay -
Hello All
Let me show these verses before I take my daughter to school and head to work for a busy day
57 Verily those who live in awe for fear of their Lord;
58 Those who believe in the Signs of their Lord;
59 Those who join not (in worship) partners with their Lord;
60 And those who dispense their charity with their hearts full of fear, because they will return to their Lord;-
61 It is these who hasten in every good work, and these who are foremost in them.
(57)
(5
(59)
(60)
(61)-> The above verses again describe the true believers, these beliebers who have NOTHING to be embarrassed of
-
57 Verily those who live in awe for fear of their Lord;
-
58 Those who believe in the Signs of their Lord;
-
59 Those who join not (in worship) partners with their Lord;
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60 And those who dispense their charity with their hearts full of fear, because they will return to their Lord;-
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61 It is these who hasten in every good work, and these who are foremost in them.
Now why those who do what is listed in 2,3,4, 5 be embarrassed of Allah as stated in 1?, see it does not make sense
The word Ikhtasha embarrassed is totally different Arabic word that happens to have the Kha, Sheen and Ya
Salam
Who said anything about embarrassed, though? Just wondering.
Peace
Peace OM
It was sister Samia trying to imply the word Khashia is sort of like Ikhtasha, as if both from the same 3 letters root "Kha Sheen Ya"
Salam
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Peace AhmedBahgat
do you believe Jahannam is a physical place or not?
no, not a physical place.
I just know hell and heaven happen here and now in this life. I know nothing about other futur or past lives, I can't know.Ok sister
now how you justify the many verses descibing hell in details by Allah?
please i'm looking for a firm/logical answer not a shakey/illogoical one
cheers
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Peace Ahmed,
Salam Tay,
Here's an example
Dad(to son) You come home before it get's dark or else.
Son OK dad.Are you serious mate?
See, the son is motivated by the fear of Dad's wrath.
I?m sorry bro, this is anything but the truth because your Tom and Jerry example is flawed, the above has nothing to do with motivating the child, in fact the child will be pissed off if he hears the above from his dad, the above is a clear cut warning from the father to the son, an example of motivation is like this
Dad(to son) You pass the high school with high marks and I will buy you a car.
Son Wow dad, you are the best,See the difference bro, that is what I call motivation
Now Allah motivated us to do good for others, but I believe He never encouraged us to believe in Him, in fact He told us ?Mn Shaa Fa LiYumin Wa Mn Shaa Fa Li Yakfur?, i.e. ?It is up to us to believe or not if we desire?, however He told us that His laws is , if you meet Him while you are Kafir then you will be doomed, no encouragement here it is a crime with its corresponding punishment as any crime that is dealt with
Please don?t tell me that we are encouraged to not to steal because of the fear of going to jail, of course not, we are fearing not to steal because of the associated fear of going to jail, however the logic and the norms is not to steal, and that does not need any encouragement, it is not like the government will create a law that anyone who is not stealing will be rewarded with such and such, your example is very flawed man
People at certain jobs are motivated to produce and get to work on time based on the fear of losing their jobs.
Come on bro, don?t show signs of desperation to find a logical example, the above is flawed again, people are only motivated at work if they are promised higher positions or higher wages, not bloody fearing to loose the job, this is a not very clever twist bro
Children in school are motivated to stay out of trouble based on fear of getting suspended or expelled or their parents being called in.
Or your examples are flawed, because motivation needs rewards, not the bloody norms that should happen, like staying out of troubles, now do the teacher reward them for staying out of trouble?, if so then I will call this a motivation, not bloody fearing to be kicked out of school
a clear cut contradiction indeed for someone who says Mohammad never existed
Quote where I ever said this, or stand corrected.
Not you for sure, it was about another member(s), sorry
Motivation has nothing to do with fearing Allah, I just dont understand how the hell someone in total fear can be motivated to do anything?, it does NOT add up bro
It adds up perfectly Ahmed. There is positive reinforcement, and there is negative reinforcement, and both can be found in plenty within al-qur'an.
Peace,
TayBro, if you will talk Quran then please bring the verses with you to prove your point
And I insist again all your examples are flawed because there was no reward associated with what you call motivation, also you are motivated to do what you have the choice to do/not, like to study or not, with the belief in Allah, we actually have no choice but to believe because He only created us for that reason and the punishment for that crime was stated clearly, therefore you can?t mix the belief in Allah and the punishment for not doing so as matter of motivation because Allah does not need to motivate us to believe in Him, He only motivates us to do the good for others and there will be rewards for that, there will be no punishment though for NOT doing the good to others as long as they believe in Allah and they never harmed any human.
Salam
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Salam Samia
Can you please translate the following to us " "
Salam
Salaam Ahmed
I do not understand what you mean. I said it is difficult to translate it, but the only word to translate it is "to fear", with a different understanding. I am lucky I read it in Arabic, no need to have it translated, and I understand it the way I understand this special verb. Other non-native speakers understand it correctly by feeling What Allah means to them.
If you are referring to what I said that this verb is specific to Allah, I was talking about the spoken Arabic. When I read this verse, I understand that "fearing" people here is not the normal "fear" from a bully or a madman, but a fear that amounts to "shirk". Allah here is not asking me not to fear a robber attacking me. Do you know what I mean by a difference between "fear" and "fear"?
Peace OM
It was sister Samia trying to imply the word Khashia is sort of like Ikhtasha, as if both from the same 3 letters root "Kha Sheen Ya"
In fact half of this is true (the root part). I did not say "it is sort of like iktasha". There is always a common meaning, even remote, between the derived verbs (derived from the same root). If we agree that iktasha means feel ashamed, then yakhsha would have some kind of this. Here, we also "fear" Allah for all His mercy and the grace he pours on us. So when he commands us, it is not the fear of torture, (or should not be) that motivates us. It is the embarrassement that with all his generousity with us, we disobey Him when He asks forom us trivial things.
I would tell this real story. When I was a student, one of our colleagues used to take Islaam very lightly; he drank, smoked dope; never paryed or fasted...you know that. Years later, I was on a plane and he was the pilot or co-pilot. We recalled some of the memories of our students' life. Then it was the time for prayer, and he excused me to go and pray in the cockpit. I was very surprised. When he returned, he was smiling and said Yes I know your questions. I got married and was blessed with two wonderful kids. Every time a kid fell sick, I would pray "ad3u" Alaah to make him well. And he would become well. Even in more serious situations, my du3aa' was met. I was then very ashamed of Allah, and I said to myself that I was really a shameless, ungrateful person . I immediately gave up drinking, smoking and started observing my duties as Allah asked me.
This friend of mine definitely knew about hell and fire, but he was not aware of Allah's love for him.
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Peace AhmedBahgat
I just know hell and heaven happen here and now in this life. I know nothing about other futur or past lives, I can't know.
now how you justify the many verses descibing hell in details by Allah?
they are describing things that happen in this life, fire, lave, burnt skin, rough keepers, arguments, wish of escaping or dying, desperation, thirst, things known and experienced in this world, they are things of this life.
please i'm looking for a firm/logical answer not a shakey/illogoical one
well, we can ask but the answers might be not what we want to hear.
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Salam Samia
Can you please translate the following to us " "
Salam
Salaam Ahmed
Salam Sister
I do not understand what you mean. I said it is difficult to translate it, but the only word to translate it is "to fear"
Sister, the quran used the word many times, and in all times it was translated as ?to fear?, now you are introducing new meaning that is not ?to fear?, we would like an example from the Quran
Yes there are other words to describe what is less than fear
, with a different understanding.
and why you want a different understanding if the use of the word was exhausted in the Quran, can?t you use the Quran to find out what it means?
I am lucky I read it in Arabic, no need to have it translated,
Please do it for the public who don?t read Arabic
and I understand it the way I understand this special verb.
and why it is a special verb?
Other non-native speakers understand it correctly by feeling What Allah means to them.
How did you know that? Also I?m not aware that understanding words depends on how we feel, hmmmm, is that really true?
If you are referring to what I said that this verb is specific to Allah,
Sorry why you say it is specific to Allah?, the verb was used by Allah with humans as well
I was talking about the spoken Arabic.
Yep, that is what I was talking about too
When I read this verse, I understand that "fearing" people here is not the normal "fear" from a bully or a madman, but a fear that amounts to "shirk".
Oh come on, If we fear Allah that does not mean He is a bully or a madman, why you want to make Him a human?
Allah here is not asking me not to fear a robber attacking me.
Of course He didn't ask you to fear a robber, He asked not to fear the people and fear Him
Do you know what I mean by a difference between "fear" and "fear"?
No I don?t, ?fear? and ?fear? sound and look the same to me
It was sister Samia trying to imply the word Khashia is sort of like Ikhtasha, as if both from the same 3 letters root "Kha Sheen Ya"
In fact half of this is true (the root part).
So what you are saying that ?ikhtasha? has a root of ?Kha Sha Ya??, well I guess you need your Arabic lessons again, I?m telling you sister ?Ikhtasha? is the root of ?Ikhtasha?, and is those words that are called ?Jamidda? and is 5 letters root, like ?Izdahara? ? ?
I did not say "it is sort of like iktasha".
And why you are trying to link it to a word that was never mentioned in the Quran?
There is always a common meaning, even remote, between the derived verbs (derived from the same root).
Unfortunately for you, Kashya is three letters root, and Ikhtasha is 5 letters root, so you are basing your conclusion on the wrong data
If we agree that iktasha means feel ashamed, then yakhsha would have some kind of this.
LOL, well, wrong data that you are injecting indeed
Here, we also "fear" Allah for all His mercy and the grace he pours on us. So when he commands us, it is not the fear of torture,
Why torture, can?t He just eliminate us with the word BE, no torture is involved?
(or should not be) that motivates us.
motivate us to do what exactly, be good to the others?
It is the embarrassement that with all his generousity with us, we disobey Him when He asks forom us trivial things.
Really?, look sister you have a serious problem indeed, I found you that you insist on the wrong understanding trying hard to inject it without any support from the Quran, and this is not healthy indeed
I would tell this real story. When I was a student, one of our colleagues used to take Islaam very lightly; he drank, smoked dope; never paryed or fasted...you know that. Years later, I was on a plane and he was the pilot or co-pilot. We recalled some of the memories of our students' life. Then it was the time for prayer, and he excused me to go and pray in the cockpit. I was very surprised. When he returned, he was smiling and said Yes I know your questions. I got married and was blessed with two wonderful kids. Every time a kid fell sick, I would pray "ad3u" Alaah to make him well. And he would become well. Even in more serious situations, my du3aa' was met. I was then very ashamed of Allah, and I said to myself that I was really a shameless, ungrateful person . I immediately gave up drinking, smoking and started observing my duties as Allah asked me.
Nice story sister however it seems to me that that guy is corrupt, he only worshipped Allah when Allah saved his kids, so it is irrelevant to our discussion because doing the Salat and all these sort of practices do not really mean that we fear Allah, it only means that we worship Him
This friend of mine definitely knew about hell and fire, but he was not aware of Allah's love for him.
Well, that is where you and the likes of you are confused, fearing Allah has nothing to do with fearing Hell, these are two different entities indeed
Here is an example
8- And as to him who comes to you striving hard,
9- And with fear (in his heart),
10- From him will you divert yourself.(
(9)
(10)-> Sure you know the above verses, now I can?t see how that blind man who was striving hard to Allah ? And as to him who comes to you striving hard,?, was feeling embarrassed as 809 is telling us ? ??, can you please tell us what do you think?
And finally here is a logical point for you, if Allah is teaching us ?Not to feel embarrassed from other people?, ?La Takhshu Al Nas?, would you consider that this is a bad teaching?, the logic says so, because we should feel shame from the people if we do something wrong in front of them
Salam
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Salaam ahmed
Actually i never said that, all I said supporting someone who claims that Mohammad was not real will make YOUR ISLAM questionable, not by me but by Allah, as He told us in te Quran that Mohammad was a real person as all other prohets were and guess what?, a Muslim should believe in that
I do believe the prophet was a real person, but i also do believe that there are many layers of understanding of the quran, which IMO was exactly what God intended.
No about the looking at yourself from far away ), ok stay close, but try to do it by analysing your feelings from a non emontional point of view, not taking into consideration only your (and others peoples) goals, intentions and feelings, but the facts ... can be very helpful and not only in religious matters . But this is OT i guess.
lk