New Calendar Article
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Peace Layth
The key in this verses is the word
returns(and not simplycurved sheath). For something to return means it goes back to where it was. Thus, if the moon begins at the waxing curved sheath then the count is until itreturnsto that same waxing curved sheath (and not its mirror image as that does not constitute a return).The exact expression is "return like an old curved sheath". If we observe "old curved sheaths", they can be left handed or right handed. If we assume that "return like an old curved sheath" actually means "return like exactly the same left or right handed old curved sheath", this could be either the waxing or the waning crescents since both equally return every cycle. The choice of the waxing crescent is haphazard. On the other hand, "manazil" (descents) indicating the shape descending to return as an "old curved sheath" definitely points to the waning crescent regardless of the fact that "old curved sheaths" can be left or right handed. I also don't think that it is a coincidence that the process described in 3639 when "descents" (manazil) is taken into account lasts exactly 10 days from full-moon to waning crescent. This is consistent with 2189 and 2185 because this interpretation allows the crescent to time the 10 day period of fasting and "hajj". On the other hand, it is impossible for the new waxing moon to be used to time a 10 day period (which we agree on).
Peace,
Ayman
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Salaams,
so much work/research i hope that people here arn't expecting the members to start using the moon for timing instead of the modern day atomic clocks.
It would be like using the camels instead of the modern day transport ! i think.
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Gods Blessings on us all.
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Brother,
so much work/research i hope that people here arn't expecting the members to start using the moon for timing instead of the modern day atomic clocks.
It would be like using the camels instead of the modern day transport ! i think.
There is no farmer that uses atomic clocks to time anything and even the most modern nations don't use atomic clocks to determine when the seasons change. Atomic clocks CANNOT be used to time seasons or events such as the summer solstice. If you note the time on the atomic clock this year for the summer solstice and then note the same time next year, it will not be the summer solstice. This is due to the procession of the equinox, so after many years, the solstice will gradually be a few days earlier, while atomic clocks are based on fixed time intervals.
Peace,
Ayman
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Brother,
so much work/research i hope that people here arn't expecting the members to start using the moon for timing instead of the modern day atomic clocks.
It would be like using the camels instead of the modern day transport ! i think.
There is no farmer that uses atomic clocks to time anything and even the most modern nations don't use atomic clocks to determine when the seasons change. Atomic clocks CANNOT be used to time seasons or events such as the summer solstice. If you note the time on the atomic clock this year for the summer solstice and then note the same time next year, it will not be the summer solstice. This is due to the procession of the equinox, so after many years, the solstice will gradually be a few days earlier, while atomic clocks are based on fixed time intervals.
Peace,
Ayman
summer solstice - i don't think God wanted us to be pagans in disguise!
http//www.tarotmania.co.uk/pages/Solstice.html
http//www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/paganism/festivals/summer_solstice.shtml
Show us which pig farmers in the west use the moon for any callender system Br.
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Salaams. -
Peace Simple,
summer solstice - i don't think God wanted us to be pagans in disguise!
http//www.tarotmania.co.uk/pages/Solstice.html
http//www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/paganism/festivals/summer_solstice.shtml
Show us which pig farmers in the west use the moon for any callender system Br.Everyone uses the seasons to time things. Whether you know it or not, you use the seasons which are marked by the solstices and equinoxes. For example, when you decide to go on vacation and go to the beach in the SUMMER. Does this make you a pagan?
I am sure that animals who use the seasons to time their mating and birthing seasons, etc. are not pagan.
Farmers have naturally used the moon and continue to use the moon to this day to time things such as harvests. Haven't you heard of the expression "harvest moon"? They do this because it is a natural cosmic event that can be used for timing by everyone regardless of whether they have an atomic clock or not. This makes it more robust and universal than "atomic clocks", plus it is free.
According to your logic, an atomic clock is more "pagan" than such natural timing devices. A clock relies on dividing the day into 24 arbitrary manmade divisions. Such arbitrary number of divisions have their roots in ancient Egyptian pagan customs
http//homepage.mac.com/pete.boardman/24hourclock/images/senmut-ceiling.jpg
In fact, unlike the arbitrary manmade 24 hour divisions in your clock, the solstices and the sun and the moon would continue to exist with or without humans.
Let me make things clear, there is nothing wrong with an arbitrary timeframe, whether it is dividing the day into 24 divisions or the year into 52 weeks, if people simply take it as a matter of convenience. The problem is when people take such manmade arbitrary timeframes as somehow sanctioned by The God. This is what makes anything "pagan".
Peace,
Ayman
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Salaams Br. Ayman,
The problem is when people take such manmade arbitrary timeframes as somehow sanctioned by The God. This is what makes anything "pagan".
That is what i am saying that there is no calendar in the quran sanctioned by the Allmighty.
We can use any system so long as we are more righteouse-whether it is a hindu system or a snail trail.
)
Gods Blessings.
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Peace Simple,
The problem is when people take such manmade arbitrary timeframes as somehow sanctioned by The God. This is what makes anything "pagan".
That is what i am saying that there is no calendar in the quran sanctioned by the Allmighty.
We can use any system so long as we are more righteouse-whether it is a hindu system or a snail trail.I agree. The issue is not about any calendar system. The issue is about using natural cosmic phenomena and not manmade calendars for the timing of the hunting restriction (see 51, 594-96) for the preservation of wildlife, which is solar in nature.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Ayman, all
Please please please let us not get distracted with arguments.
I for one wish to know the exact period Allah decreed for fasting so that when my health allows I will do it and get my reward.
Plus I agree that cosmological phenomenon transcend our lives, they are Laws of Physics.
Paganism is based on emotions and distortions in interpretations of the facts.
Salam
Noble
PS For now, I am still more convinced that the full moon should be used to time the beginning of a month as opposed to the crescent. -
Salaam Aymen and Layth
Posted by ayman
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Peace LaythQuote from Layth on Today at 013235 AM
The key in this verses is the wordreturns(and not simplycurved sheath). For something to return means it goes back to where it was. Thus, if the moon begins at the waxing curved sheath then the count is until itreturnsto that same waxing curved sheath (and not its mirror image as that does not constitute a return).I have been following your interesting discussion on this thread and on another, and I noticed that you are still arguing about the verse 3639
mainly the verb . I think that this verb here means "became" . If you read the verses where or are used meaning "to return; restart" youwill notice that there is no ambiguity as to show where the beginning was. -
Salam Samia,
I have been following your interesting discussion on this thread and on another, and I noticed that you are still arguing about the verse 3639
mainly the verb . I think that this verb here means "became" . If you read the verses where or are used meaning "to return; restart" youwill notice that there is no ambiguity as to show where the beginning was.Thank you for your excellent observation. I agree that the word "3ad" does mean "became" when no beginning is given.
Peace,
Ayman