Historical Evidence....for An Ultra Perfect Calender System based on Quran
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Another Doubt
http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/20jun_moonillusion.htm
Now see this Link Please
Nasa Says that The Full Moon is Bigger in Summer Solstice..
So Shahira meaning Fully Figured.. Can it be the Fact that Shahr Ramadana Means that the Red Scorching Fully Figured Full Moon?? Are the other places where Quran Uses Shahr Compatible?
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Calculated date NASA Dates Link available
July 11 2006
June 22 2005-----June 22 2005 http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/20jun_moonillusion.htm
Interesting point to Note This Date is not 15th of Tammuz in Hebrew Calendar..
This year Hebrew Tammuz 15 is on July 22 2005..
=> Points towards the Inaccuracy of the Hebrew calendar Calculations..
July 02 2004
July 14 2003
June 25 2002-----June 24 2002 http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2002/24jun_moonillusion.htm
July 6 2001
July 16 2000-----June 16 2000 http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast14jun_1.htm
One Month Disparity here.. Why?? I think it is because June 16 is nearer
to June 21(Solstice) than July 16.. That sounds more logical..May be
We will have to Amend the Calculations But here our calculation
Sync with the Hebrew Tammuz 15..June 29 1999
July 9 1998
July 20 1997
July 01 1996
July 13 1995
June 24 1994
July 04 1993
July 15 1992
June 27 1991
July 8 1990
July 18 1989
June 29 1988
July 11 1987
June 22 1986
July 03 1985
July 13 1984
June 26 1983
July 06 1982
July 17 1981Yet another type of Moon Harvest Moon remains thriughout Night
http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast11sep_2.htm -
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_calendar
On the other hand, Prophet Muhammad forbade the intercalary month (released the calendar from the seasons) near the end of his life, which implies a pre-Islamic year beginning near the vernal equinox because that is when the modern lunar year began during his last year. -
Numbering the years
From wikipedia...
Abraha, a governor of Yemen, then a province of the Christian Kingdom of Aksum (modern Ethiopia), attempted to destroy the Kaaba with an army which included an elephant (possibly several). Although the raid was unsuccessful, because it was customary to name a year after a major event which occurred during it, that year became known as the Year of the Elephant, which was also the year that Muhammad was born. (See surat al-Fil.) Although most Muslims equate it with the Western year 570, a minority equate it with 571. Later years were numbered from the Year of the Elephant, whether for the years of the pre-Islamic lunisolar calendar, the lunisolar calendar used by Muhammad before he forbade the intercalary month, or the first few years of the lunar calendar thus created. In 638 (AH 17), the second Caliph Umar began numbering the years of the Islamic calendar from the year of the Hijra, which was postdated AH 1. The first day of the first month (1 Muharram) of that proleptic Islamic year, that is, after the removal of all intercalary months between the Hijra and Muhammad's prohibition of them nine years later, corresponded to July 16, 622 (the actual emigration took place in September). The first surviving attested use of the Hijri calendar is on a papyrus from Egypt in 22 AH, PERF 558.Now what is the Date July 16, 622 or July 19,622?
Set the Date to 1 Muharram 1 Hijri Date in http//www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/conv.htm And U get July 19,622If the Imigration Took place in Either of the Dates It Falls on 4382 Av 3 Hebrew Date.. 1400 Years of hebrew Calendar can be out of Sync by only 15 days..
Now The Immigration Must have took place the month after Scorching Full Moon according to the Date July 19 622
Now if the glowing brackets in the Previous Wiki Paragraph is correct Immigration Might have taken Place in the 3 Months After The Scorching Full Moon..2197 For Hajj are the months WELL KNOWN. If any one undertakes that duty therein, Let there be no obscenity, nor wickedness, nor wrangling in the Hajj. And whatever good ye do, (be sure) Allah knoweth it. And take a provision (With you) for the journey, but the best of provisions is right conduct. So fear Me, o ye that are wise.
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Salam Brothers and sisters..
Let us make an attempt to trace the Years and Dates hijri Calendar with all possible Documentary Evidence..
If any of you get links.. Regarding these Please post in this thread..Reference..
http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Papyri/jones.htmlThis combination of date and script would be remarkable enough in itself, but the papyrus has yet another nugget of priceless information. The Greek version has its own Byzantine date in line 5a of the recto of the papyrus. This has the form "30 Pharmouthi of the indiction year 1". Such dates are commonly found in Greek papyri, and indeed there are half a dozen other documents in the Erzherzog Rainer Papyrus group that have indiction dates for the period A.D. 642-43. The only problem is that the indiction cycle is a relatively short one of fifteen years, and thus great care is needed in working out the appropriate date in the Christian era. Grohmann worked out "30 Pharmouthi of the indiction year 1" to be 25th April, 643 A.D.
The date fits with two of the most commonly available conversion tables those of Caetani and of Freeman-Grenville.?? They make the last day of Jumada I equate with 26th April, 643 A.D. Given the virtual inevitability of imprecisions of dating at the period, the fit is remarkably good.??
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Many in Mecca resented his preaching and persecuted him and his followers. Eventually, in 622, he was forced to move out of Mecca in a journey known to Muslims as the Hijra (the Migration). He settled in the area of Yathrib (now known as Medina) with his followers, where he was the leader of the first avowedly Muslim community.
The Meccans started attacking Medina to destroy the Islamic state. Even though the attacking armies were several times stronger in numbers and in weaponry, Muslims defeated these invaders every time they attacked. Muslims finally attacked Mecca under the leadership of Muhammad after eight years of Hijra and took control of the city. The Muslims subsequently removed all idols from the Kaaba. Most of the townspeople accepted Islam. Deputations began to come in from other Arabian tribes. The conditions for their adherence were the acceptance of Islam, the destruction of idols, and the payment of the 'zakat' (tax) for the support of the poor community. In March 632, Muhammad led the pilgrimage, the Hajj. On returning to Medina he fell ill and died after a few days, on June 8.
R these dates reliable?
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http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_%28Islam%29
Chronology of the Hijra
- Day 1 Thursday 26 Safar AH 1, 9 September 622
o Left home in Mecca. Stayed three days in the Cave of Thawr near Mecca. - Day 5 Monday 1 Rabi' I AH 1, 13 September 622
o Left the environs of Mecca. Traveled to the region of Yathrib. - Day 12 Monday 8 Rabi' I AH 1, 20 September 622
o Arrived at Quba' near Medina. - Day 16 Friday 12 Rabi' I AH 1, 24 September 622
o First visit to Medina for Friday prayers. - Day 26 Monday 22 Rabi' I AH 1, 4 October 622
o Moved from Quba' to Medina.
The Muslim dates are in the Islamic calendar extended back in time. The Western dates are in the Julian calendar. The Hijra is celebrated annually on 8 Rabi' I, about 66 days after 1 Muharram, the first day of the Muslim year. Many writers confuse the first day of the year of the Hijra with the Hijra itself, erroneously stating that the Hijra occurred on 1 Muharram AH 1 or 16 July 622.
All dates given above may have occurred about 89 days (three lunar months) earlier in the Julian calendar. The calendar conversions quoted above may not have been corrected by early Muslims for the intercalary months (probably three) which had been inserted in the lunar calendar between the year of the Hijra and the year of Muhammad's last Hajj (AH 10), when intercalary months were forbidden.
What does the bold paragraph means? Are there any clues..
- Day 1 Thursday 26 Safar AH 1, 9 September 622
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http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad
The truce of Hudaybiyya
Main article Treaty of Hudaybiyya
Although revelation (2196-2210) about the performing of Haj had already came, Muhammad and Muslims did not do it due to the enmity of the Quraish. It was the month of Shawwal 6 A.H. when Muhammad saw in a vision that he was shaving his head after the Haj. Muhammad therefore decided to perform the Haj in the following month. Hence around 13th March, 628 with 1400 Companions went towards Madina without the least intention of giving a battle. But the Quraish were determined to offer resistance to Muslims and they posted themselves outside Mecca, closing all access to the city. . In order to settle the dispute peacfully Muhammad halted at a placed called Hudaybiyya. Hence after series of talks a treaty is signed. The main points of treaty were following.
- They have agreed to lay down the burden of war for ten years
- Muhammad, should not perform Haj this year
- They may come next year to perform Haj (unarmed) but shall not stay in Mecca for more than three days
- Any Muslim living in Mecca cannot settle in Medina but Medina Muslim may come and join Meccans (and will not be returned).
Many of Muslims were not satisfied with the terms the treaty is made. However, on the way to Madina, Allah revealed the Prophet a new chapter of Quran named "Al-Fath" (The victory) 481-4829. The new Revelation left no doubt in Muslims' minds that the expedition from which they were now returning must be considered as vitorious one. . With the passage of time it become more and more apparent why the Koran had declared the truce a victory. The men of Mecca and Medina could now meet in peace and discuss Islam hence during the following two years the community of Islam was more than doubled.
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Seems like that Prophet Muhammed Followed Some other Calendar based on The Elephant Event of Abrahat.. Traditions only say that the intercalary months were removed at a later stage of Prophets life..
So Can Anybody caluculate the Gregarian dates of any of the Ramadan observed by Prophet Muhammed? -
Peace Dr. Shabeer,
Thank you for your informative and thought provoking posts on this subject. Below, I will try to group your related comments so that I can address them together in a logical order.
The Scorching Full Moon Always Corresponds to Tammuz 15 of the Hebrew Calendar
It is actually a lot more interesting than that.
The full-moon after the spring equinox corresponds to Passover.
Starting from the scorching full-moon and counting four full-moons, this fourth full moon would correspond to the Sukkot festival.
So it is clear that Jews have always used the full-moon to mark their festivals.
The Sukkot festival is a particularly interesting one because it corresponds to the Harvest Moon. The Sukkot would also correspond to the last of the four restricted full-moons. The Sukkot as well as the Harvest Moon are traditionally celebrated as a time for sharing food and for trading. We know that "hajj" is about witnessing benefits (for example, through trading) and eating and feeding the needy. So the Sukkot/Harvest Moon would be the last "hajj"/annual fair gathering of the year.
There is every possibilty that The Scorching Full Moon Is the Shahr Ramadan of 2185
Yes this is not just a very possible scenario. This is the most likely scenario. Full-moon is certainly one of the meanings of the word "shahr" given by Classical Arabic dictionaries. The etymology of the word "shahr" (full-moon/full-figured/bright) points strongly to the "full-moon" being the original meaning.
Laylathul Qadr and The Scorching Full Moon. Are they Same?
Yes. This would make 2185 and Chapter 97 consistent. It would resolve the contradiction of the great reading being descended in one month in one instance while in one night in the other. Moreover, it naturally pinpoints the night of measure without ambiguity.
Hebrew Calendar Uses Lunisolar Dating
Tammuz is a Month of Hebrew Calendar
Jews might be Following an approximately Quranic Calendar SystemWe have to keep in mind that the issue is not about any calendar system. The God gives us clear cosmic phenomena to time the fast and the hunting restrictions. We can see that the Jews used their own calendar system but for marking their Passover and Sukkot festivals they continued to use those clear cosmic phenomena, the full-moons.
There is a Discrepancy of about 1 month in 3075 years in Hebrew Calendar..I'm not sure of it. Have to Recalculate..That means The Hebrew Calendar will be out of Synchronistaion with Seasons by 1 month in 3075 years
The Proposed Quranic Dating System will rectify that error also.It will be the Most Accurate LuniSolar Calendar than any other of the conventional Calendar.It will be in synchronisation with Seasons even After One Lakh years..
Jews Have been Using the Hebrew Calendar which is similar to the Calendar Which is Derivable from Quran provides supportive evidence that Shahr Ramadan can be Scorching Full Moon..
Quran Rectifying The Error of Synchronisation in the Jewish Calendar can be considered as a Proof by the Jews for Quran being from Allah
We have to find out the Method How Jews Calculate their Calendar?
I think it is not from the Scorching Full Moon Because If they did so there will be no Out OF Sync Condition after 3075 yearsThere is no such synchronization issue with the system used in the great reading. The scorching full-moon is always the first full-moon after the summer solstice so it will always be in sync with the seasons.
history of the Hebrew Calendar?
I do not know the history of this calendar and I doubt that much of it is verifiable anyway but we can see from the fact that Passover and Sukkot occur on the full-moon that perhaps originally the full-moon was the prominent marker.
History of Islamic Calendar..
All the Hadeeths Collection Regarding Who made this Lunar Hijri Calendar. aLL Possible Details..The Hadiths have various stories full of confusion about how the Hijri calendar came about. We have to remember that the only historical value of Hadiths is that they may reflect the discussions going on during the time of their collection. So those confused stories reflect the confusion during the Abbasid era about the origin of the calendar.
Any Historic Documents at the Time or near the time of Prophet Muhammed Which are dated in Multiple Calendar Dates like a Letter Containing Gregarion and Hijri Dates.. It can be used to Calculate what was followed then at the time of Prophet Muhammed..
I have heard that there are Letters Signed by Caliphs etc are documents preserved.. All dates on it.. Anybody who have Access to Photos of Such Documents?Please Post those Photos Information of Dates etc..
Tomb Stone Inscriptions are a Possible source of InformationWhat is interesting is that the word "Hijri" doesn't appear on any documents or inscriptions for at least a hundred years after this supposed date. The documents contradict the traditional accounts. For example, Jacob of Edessa (died 708CE) wrote the following
"All we have regarding thaggar (Islam) are the notices that Mhmt (Muhammad) went down for trade to the lands of Palestine, Arabia and Syrian Phoenicia,' that 'the kingdom of the Arbaye (Arabians), those whom we call Tayyaye (Arabs), began when Heraclius, king of the Romans, was in his eleventh year and Khusrau, king of the Persians, was in his thirty-first year' (620-21CE), and that 'the Tayyaye began to carry out raids in the land of Palestine.'"
The date given by Jacob of Edessa is over ten years prior to when the traditionalists contend the early Muslims began to carry out raids on Palestine. According to traditions, at that time the prophet hasn't even emigrated yet!
This plus the fact that the inscription of Abraha gives the date of his expedition to be approximately 20 years prior to the date given by the traditional accounts for the expedition and the birth of the prophet, places serious doubts over the traditional dating of Hijra and when the prophet was born and died.
Youc can see the inscription of Abraha here
http//www.mnh.si.edu/epigraphy/e_pre-islamic/fig04_sabaean_img.htmPhysical archeological evidence points to the prophet living 10-20 years prior to when traditionalists contend. This plus the fact that none of the early manuscripts or inscriptions mentions the word "Hijri" indicates that the dating of the so-called Islamic era is based on an event that took place either after the prophet's death or in the final year or two of his life.
Some Advanced Software which can Compute various Gregarion Hijri and Hebrew Dates Accurately to the Span of 10000 years before and 10000 years After?
What was the Gregarion And Hebrew Dates when Islamic Hijri Calendar was Made.. I think this can provide a Good Insight into What exactly Happened..I don't think that we can achieve much out of this exercise. Even the order of the months in the Hijri calendar seems to have been rearranged sometime after the disconnection from the seasons. For example, in pre-quranic Arabia, Rabi3 Al-Awwal occurred in the spring while Rabi3 Al-Thanni occurred in the fall. In the so-called Islamic calendar, those became two consecutive months.
The Dates of Scorching Full Moon Allways Matched the Dates of Tammuz 15 according to Hebrew Calendar except in one case
except in the Case of June 22,2005.. There The Tammuz 15 was July 22 2005.. May be an error in the Hebrew Calendar.. Or may be the Hijri Software can be out of Sync by 1 or 2 days.. Got to study more on it..In 2005, the first full-moon was very close after the solstice, so if the Hijri software is earlier by 1 or 2 days, it would throw the date of the first full-moon after the solstice out by about a month.
Peace,
Ayman
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Calculated date NASA Dates Link available
July 11 2006
June 22 2005-----June 22 2005 http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/20jun_moonillusion.htm
Interesting point to Note This Date is not 15th of Tammuz in Hebrew Calendar..
This year Hebrew Tammuz 15 is on July 22 2005..
=> Points towards the Inaccuracy of the Hebrew calendar Calculations..
July 02 2004
July 14 2003
June 25 2002-----June 24 2002 http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2002/24jun_moonillusion.htm
July 6 2001
July 16 2000-----June 16 2000 http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast14jun_1.htm
One Month Disparity here.. Why?? I think it is because June 16 is nearer
to June 21(Solstice) than July 16.. That sounds more logical..May be
We will have to Amend the Calculations But here our calculation
Sync with the Hebrew Tammuz 15..June 29 1999
July 9 1998
July 20 1997
July 01 1996
July 13 1995
June 24 1994
July 04 1993
July 15 1992
June 27 1991
July 8 1990
July 18 1989
June 29 1988
July 11 1987
June 22 1986
July 03 1985
July 13 1984
June 26 1983
July 06 1982
July 17 1981From this data That I posted Earlier.. Please note that NASA called to look out for a Scorching Full Moon in June 16 2000 instead of July 16 2000 Which I calculated Earlier..
From that My conclusion is that We dont have to look out for the moon after the Summer Solstice.. But We have to look For the Moon Nearer to the Summer Solstice.. Be It Before or After the Solstice..
Please Comment on my opinion Brother Ayman..
Peace -
Calculated date NASA Dates Link available
July 11 2006
June 22 2005-----June 22 2005 http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/20jun_moonillusion.htm
Interesting point to Note This Date is not 15th of Tammuz in Hebrew Calendar..
This year Hebrew Tammuz 15 is on July 22 2005..
=> Points towards the Inaccuracy of the Hebrew calendar Calculations..
July 02 2004
July 14 2003
June 25 2002-----June 24 2002 http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2002/24jun_moonillusion.htm
July 6 2001
July 16 2000-----June 16 2000 http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast14jun_1.htm
One Month Disparity here.. Why?? I think it is because June 16 is nearer
to June 21(Solstice) than July 16.. That sounds more logical..May be
We will have to Amend the Calculations But here our calculation
Sync with the Hebrew Tammuz 15..June 29 1999
July 9 1998
July 20 1997
July 01 1996
July 13 1995
June 24 1994
July 04 1993
July 15 1992
June 27 1991
July 8 1990
July 18 1989
June 29 1988
July 11 1987
June 22 1986
July 03 1985
July 13 1984
June 26 1983
July 06 1982
July 17 1981Yet another type of Moon Harvest Moon remains thriughout Night
http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast11sep_2.htmFrom this data That I posted Earlier.. Please note that NASA called to look out for a Scorching Full Moon in June 16 2000 instead of July 16 2000 Which I calculated Earlier..
From that My conclusion is that We dont have to look out for the moon after the Summer Solstice.. But We have to look For the Moon Nearer to the Summer Solstice.. Be It Before or After the Solstice..
Please Comment on my opinion Brother Ayman..
Peace -
Peace Brother Ayman..
What I think of is that whether We can Estabilish that Prophet Muhammed Fasted on Scorching Full Moon Days from the available Hadeeths and Dates.. It will be easier for People who Follow traditional Islam to terminate their Blind Love for the Hadeeths and Come to Islam..
Peace -
Peace Dr. Shabeer,
From this data That I posted Earlier.. Please note that NASA called to look out for a Scorching Full Moon in June 16 2000 instead of July 16 2000 Which I calculated Earlier..
From that My conclusion is that We dont have to look out for the moon after the Summer Solstice.. But We have to look For the Moon Nearer to the Summer Solstice.. Be It Before or After the Solstice..
Please Comment on my opinion Brother Ayman..The word "scorching" has two connotations the color red and intense heat. The full-moon before or after the summer solstice will be red but only the one after the solstice will be at the beginning of the hottest time of the year.
The full-moon that is right before (say about 10 days or less before) the summer solstice will be the 13th moon that happens every three years. This moon is not counted as per 936, so this will also naturally exclude it even though it is also red.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Dr. Shabeer,
What I think of is that whether We can Estabilish that Prophet Muhammed Fasted on Scorching Full Moon Days from the available Hadeeths and Dates.. It will be easier for People who Follow traditional Islam to terminate their Blind Love for the Hadeeths and Come to Islam..
Our only focus is the truth not what would be easier for those who follow traditional Islam. Those of them who are focused on the truth will terminate their blind Love for the Hadeeths sooner or later. As for the others, nothing matters anyway.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace be upon you Brother Ayman..
How are you Sure that the Scorching Full Moon Occurs in relation to the Summer Solstice? Cant it be a Coincidence of This Particular Centuries 19th 20th and 21st may be?? How do you know about the Scorching Red Moons that Occured in the Past.. Are there any Reliable sites which gives the Occurences in the Past?
Refer To Milankovich Cycle.. Which says that We are at a Particular Time in the history where the Summer Solstice is very near the Farthest point of Sun from the Earth.. Perihelion.. Cant it be that there are some other relations for the Occurence of the Scorching Moon..
NASA Sites give many Explanations for the Scorching Moon.. Of which they are not Sure..
Regards