God needs us and/or we need God?
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Peace be upon you,
God DOES need man, just not the individual. What I mean is that we SERVE the God as vehicles for his attributes to come into the world. But we say the God does not need because wether it is you or I or someone else, the God WILL manifest. Thats why we can say that the God does not need. So to put it more clearly, the God USES man, but does not need anyone in particular.
Hello Kyle,
Sorry bro, I have no idea what you're trying to convey. Perhaps you're mixing the relative terms (God does need or doesn't) together with God USES and not sure how exactly all this fits in. Either way, please be a little clear and show us where you get "HIS" attributes from? Can you give us a few examples of God's attributes being authenticated? Thanks.
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Peace be upon you Danish,
Sorry bro, I have no idea what you're trying to convey. Perhaps you're mixing the relative terms (God does need or doesn't) together with God USES and not sure how exactly all this fits in. Either way, please be a little clear and show us where you get "HIS" attributes from? Can you give us a few examples of God's attributes being authenticated? Thanks.
Lets take the attribute Of God "Forgiver". We aremade according to the God's pattern. Therefore "the forgiver" is within us, waiting to be manifested. When we become forgiving, the God uses us to express "Its" forgiveness. So the God "needs" man because we(jinn and insaan) SERVE The God. However, we cant say that teh God "needs" any particular person because if you or I dont manifest that forgiveness, another person will step to the occasion. There is a verse that says something to the effedct that if we do not do what we are suppossed to, then the God will create another who WILL. I hope whoever remembers can provide this verse for me.
We are mental creations of God, just as we have our own mental creations. Just as easy as we imagine a certain image, we can erase it and have a new one with hardly any effort.
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Peace be upon you Samia,
Thanks for the quick response. I was actually thinking of another verse, but this one is more direct and to the point, thank you.
(4133) If He wills/wants He makes you go away, you the people, and He comes with others, and The God was/is on that capable/able.
(Free Minds) O you people, if He wills, He could make all of you cease to exist; then He would bring others in your place. God is most capable to do this.
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There is a verse that says something to the effedct that if we do not do what we are suppossed to, then the God will create another who WILL. I hope whoever remembers can provide this verse for me.
Not sure if you meant this...
938. O you who believe, what is wrong with you when you are told ?March forth in the cause of God,? you become heavy on Earth. Have you become content with this worldly life over the Hereafter? The enjoyment of this worldly life compared to the Hereafter is nothing.
939. If you do not march forth, then He will punish you with a painful retribution, and He will replace you with another people, and you do not bother Him in the least. God is capable of all things. -
Peace be upon you Zenje,
I dont think that was the verse I was thinking of either, but it also fits the understanidng I am trying to share. Thank you.
This shows that the God has stold us repeatedly that "IT" Needs man, but doesnt NEED any one in particular. I hope I am making sense. I am not trying to paint the picture of a "god" that is worried that it wont manifest in teh physical world, It KNOWS it will and is at perfect PEACE.
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Sorry bro, I have no idea what you're trying to convey. Perhaps you're mixing the relative terms (God does need or doesn't) together with God USES and not sure how exactly all this fits in. Either way, please be a little clear and show us where you get "HIS" attributes from? Can you give us a few examples of God's attributes being authenticated? Thanks.
Lets take the attribute Of God "Forgiver". We aremade according to the God's pattern. Therefore "the forgiver" is within us, waiting to be manifested. When we become forgiving, the God uses us to express "Its" forgiveness. So the God "needs" man because we(jinn and insaan) SERVE The God. However, we cant say that teh God "needs" any particular person because if you or I dont manifest that forgiveness, another person will step to the occasion. There is a verse that says something to the effedct that if we do not do what we are suppossed to, then the God will create another who WILL. I hope whoever remembers can provide this verse for me.
We are mental creations of God, just as we have our own mental creations. Just as easy as we imagine a certain image, we can erase it and have a new one with hardly any effort.
Kyle, our "maker" (GOD) is beyond our perception and UNSEEN and UNKNOWN. Anything and everything to do with GOD are deliberations of our own imagination. The attributes assigned to this GOD are the figments of our imagination, a hypothetical or an extraordinary perception. According to Quran, the Allah is a male deity addressed by HE, HIM and HIS. This is also true for all other male gods and the same shared attributes are true for all female gods addressed as SHE and HER, outside the scope of this alleged divine book.
In primeval and midieval ages, man-made gods were common practices for simplistic and unrealistic social upbringing and continues its veneration to this day. Everything has always been a human affair and since generations, man has advanced and excelled through knowledge, intelligence and science directly related to nature/reality, and continues to do so.
The attributes, such as forgiving yet unforgiving, merciful yet merciless, present yet absent, knowing yet unknowing and so forth, all of which are extraordinarily assigned to gods and godesses which stems out of behavioural patterns and mindsets. There are not only humans as lords, gods and godesses, but all sorts of animals (birds as winged animals, two-headed beasts, cats, reptiles, etc.) and celestial bodies (sun, moon, stars, meteorites) as well, including fire, water and wind to assimilate, osmose and acclimatize the upright and evil, good and bad, wrong and right, construction and destruction, preservation and neglect, creation and annihilation, etcetera, etcetera, and therefore the attributes. It is due to these natural phenomenon and SIGNS of REALITY which gave man an upperhand to become dignified and somber in manner and character. BUT, Today, man has reached such higher levels of sophistication so as to compromise its very own living standards and existence in an extremely unusual and unbalanced systems yet can bring about death and destruction instantaneouly.
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Peace be upon you,
Kyle, our "maker" (GOD) is beyond our perception and UNSEEN and UNKNOWN.
Agreed.
Anything and everything to do with GOD are deliberations of our own imagination.
I disagree. Man is made according to the pattern of the God. The God is the CORE of Being. When we "know ourselves" we come to know The God. Thats how this all began.
The attributes assigned to this GOD are the figments of our imagination, a hypothetical or an extraordinary perception. According to Quran, the Allah is a male deity addressed by HE, HIM and HIS. This is also true for all other male gods and the same shared attributes are true for all female gods addressed as SHE and HER, outside the scope of this alleged divine book.
I disagree, I am told that "he" is used because there is no word for nueter gender in Arabic. Regarding other cultures, Khamit does not specify male nor female "gods". Only male and female energies that manifest from "NebErtcher" (Lord of All) that is above male and female distinction. I try not to write "He" anduse "IT".
In primeval and midieval ages, man-made gods were common practices for simplistic and unrealistic social upbringing and continues its veneration to this day. Everything has always been a human affair and since generations, man has advanced and excelled through knowledge, intelligence and science directly related to nature/reality, and continues to do so.
I am not sure I grasped what you were trying to say here so I will not comment.
The attributes, such as forgiving yet unforgiving, merciful yet merciless, present yet absent, knowing yet unknowing and so forth, all of which are extraordinarily assigned to godsand godesses which stems out of behavioural patterns and mindsets. There are not only humans as lords, gods and godesses, but all sorts of animals (birds as winged animals, two-headed beasts, cats, reptiles, etc.) and celestial bodies (sun, moon, stars, meteorites) as well, including fire, water and wind to assimilate, osmose and acclimatize the upright and evil, good and bad, wrong and right, construction and destruction, preservation and neglect, creation and annihilation, etcetera, etcetera, and therefore the attributes. It is due to these natural phenomenon and SIGNS of REALITY which gave man an upperhand to become dignified and somber in manner and character. BUT, Today, man has reached such higher levels of sophistication so as to compromise its very own living standards and existence in an extremely unusual and unbalanced systems yet can bring about death and destruction instantaneouly.
I am having a hard time understanding your point. The planets are used to symbolize energies in the universe that effect us. The part man part animals symbolized the divine and animal natures of man and how we must transcend the animal nature. They were not "gods", just ways to help people learn. At least this was the way of Khemet, were all came to learn.
Please give me a clear example of what you are stating so I can be clear.
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According to Quran, the Allah is a male deity addressed by HE, HIM and HIS. This is also true for all other male gods and the same shared attributes are true for all female gods addressed as SHE and HER, outside the scope of this alleged divine book.
So with that same logic, then according to quran, there are many gods, since the God refers to himself as We? -
Peace be upon you,
Kyle, our "maker" (GOD) is beyond our perception and UNSEEN and UNKNOWN.
Agreed.
Anything and everything to do with GOD are deliberations of our own imagination.
I disagree. Man is made according to the pattern of the God. The God is the CORE of Being. When we "know ourselves" we come to know The God. Thats how this all began.
The attributes assigned to this GOD are the figments of our imagination, a hypothetical or an extraordinary perception. According to Quran, the Allah is a male deity addressed by HE, HIM and HIS. This is also true for all other male gods and the same shared attributes are true for all female gods addressed as SHE and HER, outside the scope of this alleged divine book.
I disagree, I am told that "he" is used because there is no word for nueter gender in Arabic. Regarding other cultures, Khamit does not specify male nor female "gods". Only male and female energies that manifest from "NebErtcher" (Lord of All) that is above male and female distinction. I try not to write "He" anduse "IT".
First you agree that GOD is beyond perception and then you disagree the figment of our imagination. But then again, you bring about "patterns" of GOD, which itself is extraordinary imagination, LOL!! Kyle, you seem confused and not sure which way to go. Who or what is this GOD from which you extract "patterns" from? Unless humans have SEEN and KNOWN who or what GOD actually is, everything is imaginary, mythical, mystical, transcendental and thus, figment of our imaginations.
For what I have observed from most of your posts, you have been promoting the black Kemetic philosophy recently founded in NY and infusing it with Quran. The Kemetic philosophy is a revival of Egyptology. It is similar yet distinct from Quranic discernments. Do you believe in the Quranic or Kemetic wilfullness. The following is what Kemetic religion is all about
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra_Un_Nefer_Amen
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ausar_Auset_Society
In primeval and midieval ages, man-made gods were common practices for simplistic and unrealistic social upbringing and continues its veneration to this day. Everything has always been a human affair and since generations, man has advanced and excelled through knowledge, intelligence and science directly related to nature/reality, and continues to do so.
I am not sure I grasped what you were trying to say here so I will not comment.
The attributes, such as forgiving yet unforgiving, merciful yet merciless, present yet absent, knowing yet unknowing and so forth, all of which are extraordinarily assigned to godsand godesses which stems out of behavioural patterns and mindsets. There are not only humans as lords, gods and godesses, but all sorts of animals (birds as winged animals, two-headed beasts, cats, reptiles, etc.) and celestial bodies (sun, moon, stars, meteorites) as well, including fire, water and wind to assimilate, osmose and acclimatize the upright and evil, good and bad, wrong and right, construction and destruction, preservation and neglect, creation and annihilation, etcetera, etcetera, and therefore the attributes. It is due to these natural phenomenon and SIGNS of REALITY which gave man an upperhand to become dignified and somber in manner and character. BUT, Today, man has reached such higher levels of sophistication so as to compromise its very own living standards and existence in an extremely unusual and unbalanced systems yet can bring about death and destruction instantaneouly.
I am having a hard time understanding your point.
It's pretty clear and common sense. It touches briefly on how man began his socio-econo lifestyle. Parwez explains slightly better in the link provided by Arnold. Study history of man and reflect upon our current situations. They are very much the same but advanced in materialistic and ornamental ("icing on cakes" fashions via experimentations of nature.
The planets are used to symbolize energies in the universe that effect us. The part man part animals symbolized the divine and animal natures of man and how we must transcend the animal nature. They were not "gods", just ways to help people learn. At least this was the way of Khemet, were all came to learn.
You are once again mixing the current way of lifestyles to primeval ones and how man excelled to this day. Animals, humans and celestial bodies were, during primitive times, venerated as gods. The Quran also mentions this. Read the "the daughters of God", the story of Abrahim, the "house of Allah" and much more.
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According to Quran, the Allah is a male deity addressed by HE, HIM and HIS. This is also true for all other male gods and the same shared attributes are true for all female gods addressed as SHE and HER, outside the scope of this alleged divine book.
So with that same logic, then according to quran, there are many gods, since the God refers to himself as We?The "we" is pluralistic, designating many and is purely human in terms of carrying a message. It cannot be GOD ALONE. Man-made deities made from clay/mud or other earthly materials, are insignificant in this respect.
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everything is imaginary, mythical, mystical, transcendental and thus, figment of our imaginations.
not really.
Danish, i do get your point, but for some reason you can't understand that "god" can actually mean something other than what you think it means. The question you should be asking isn't "is God real?" but "what is God?" -
Peace Danish
. The following is what Kemetic religion is all about
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra_Un_Nefer_Amen
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ausar_Auset_Societywikipedia is not the infallible source of knowledge.
You can know what is Kemetic philosophy reading Ra Un Nefer books much better than believing blindy faulty net resources. --as you implied by saying "The following is what Kemetic religion is all about"
I came to know it through the books Maat The 11 Laws of God and Metu Neter, I recommend you them, the teachings serve everybody.
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Easy folks. The mythical concept of monotheism and one god needs humans to support it....Without humans blindly worshipping an unrealistic entity,god would have no power in the world,eg if everbody just said 'forget god/religion,lets just try to be peaceful and happy to the best of our knowledge and ability',then i feel the 'hypnotic' conditioned effect of god/religion would fade away,and peace could be more realistic....Of course since the 'enlightenment' this has been happening in western society to an extent anyway....Lets hope the fundamentalists,philistines,luddites and sectarians dont gain to much sway in the land...
handshake muscle bravo -
Peace be upon you Danish,
First you agree that GOD is beyond perception and then you disagree the figment of our imagination. But then again, you bring about "patterns" of GOD, which itself is extraordinary imagination, LOL!! Kyle, you seem confused and not sure which way to go. Who or what is this GOD from which you extract "patterns" from? Unless humans have SEEN and KNOWN who or what GOD actually is, everything is imaginary, mythical, mystical, transcendental and thus, figment of our imaginations.
Let me clarify my position. The God is UNSEEN, however this does not lead to UNPROVEABLE. In the same manner that wind and gravity are unseen, yet proveable by MATHEMATICS. MATHEMATICS proves the Unseen Intelligence responsible for the creation of the Universe. Once we understand that thier is an Intelligence that creates all things according to MATHEMATICAL PATTERNS, and we begin to observe the cycles of the universe (movement of planets, peaking of digestion around 12noon, womens menstruation, etc) then we can extract information from these observable laws.
For what I have observed from most of your posts, you have been promoting the black Kemetic philosophy recently founded in NY and infusing it with Quran. The Kemetic philosophy is a revival of Egyptology. It is similar yet distinct from Quranic discernments. Do you believe in the Quranic or Kemetic wilfullness.
I have been promoting that which has descended upon me AND THOSE BEFORE ME, just as this reading(quran) suggests we do. And there has been no secret at all about that. I do not restrict myself to one text, especially when that text tells me not to. It is not the book called quran that is fully detailed, it is the Universe that is fully detailed. The problem many have is that when they look back to "that which descedned before me", they look only to the Jewish and Christian books, as if no other culture recieved messengers and prophets. I chose to go back to the oldest recorded spiritual philosophy, that records indicate was a "mecca" for knowledge to many cultures. I cannot overstate how beneficial my search has been and that is why I strongly recommend the same books over and over again for those who want help with the very same questions you are posing to me today.
But let me be clear, I deal with that which can be PROVEN, not blind faith, and that is what this reading(quran) is teaching us. It is not teaching us to blindly believe in a single text, it states that the signs are from the horizons to within our spirits(nafs). Lets not close our eyes to wise teachings.
The following is what Kemetic religion is all about
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra_Un_Nefer_Amen
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ausar_Auset_Society
Thank you for sharing that. I just want to add however that this is not "black" kemetic philosophy, just kemetic philosophy. Although it is true that this group is geared towards African and African Americans, knowledge is for everyone and I have never seen anyone turned away from coming to thier classes and certainly not from buying the books or audio cd's of classes. The teaching itself is about transcending your animalistic level, where race is an issue.
I am having a hard time understanding your point.
It's pretty clear and common sense. It touches briefly on how man began his socio-econo lifestyle. Parwez explains slightly better in the link provided by Arnold. Study history of man and reflect upon our current situations. They are very much the same but advanced in materialistic and ornamental ("icing on cakes" fashions via experimentations of nature.
Please provide the link
Quote
The planets are used to symbolize energies in the universe that effect us. The part man part animals symbolized the divine and animal natures of man and how we must transcend the animal nature. They were not "gods", just ways to help people learn. At least this was the way of Khemet, were all came to learn.You are once again mixing the current way of lifestyles to primeval ones and how man excelled to this day. Animals, humans and celestial bodies were, during primitive times, venerated as gods. The Quran also mentions this. Read the "the daughters of God", the story of Abrahim, the "house of Allah" and much more.
Yes, some did, but some did not. If you would take time to understand the teachings of Khemet where much of it came from, you would understand that they did not worship planets and animals, etc.
Its the same as what happens today, many take the metaphors and symbolisms as literal and get astray.
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Peace be upon you Elena,
I came to know it through the books Maat The 11 Laws of God and Metu Neter, I recommend you them, the teachings serve everybody.
Exactly! Thank you for confirming that from a non African/African American perspective.
Danish, "MAAT, 11 LAws of God" is very quick read and very informative, I strongly recommend it to all. Metu Neter is a lot more complex.
But again, this is for those who are not stuck to just one text for aquiring knowledge.
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Peace be upon you Enquirer,
Easy folks. The mythical concept of monotheism and one god needs humans to support it.
.I am not promoting monotheism, I am promoting the UNIFYING FORCE within man, that same force that makes all the cells work as ONE and coordinates all your unconscious actions such as digesting food, etc. This same "Force" must be cultivated to manifest in the outer world, in our daily actions.
..Without humans blindly worshipping an unrealistic entity,god would have no power in the world,eg if everbody just said 'forget god/religion,lets just try to be peaceful and happy to the best of our knowledge and ability',then i feel the 'hypnotic' conditioned effect of god/religion would fade away,and peace could be more realistic....Of course since the 'enlightenment' this has been happening in western society to an extent anyway....Lets hope the fundamentalists,philistines,luddites and sectarians dont gain to much sway in the land...
I agree, we should not be worshipping a "god out there", that is unrealistic and unverifyable. That which we SERVE is at the core of our being. It is THAT which percieves the world, but itself cannot be percieved. And we can all bear witness to this fact that within us ALL, we have THAT whic percieves, but itself cannot be percieved. That is consciousness itself, the ONE consciousness that manifests through the many earthly vehicles. We do not "worship" That, we serve THAT.
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Hello Elena,
wikipedia is not the infallible source of knowledge.
Encyclopedias are sources of extensive and most accurate information containing valuable references to vast line of subject matters. Ofcourse, it is not a detailed instruction book or a coaching/tuitioning manual but enlightens upon the subject itself as to what it is. Kemetic religion is just a grain of salt in the world of information contained in Encyclopedias, such as Wikipedia, Britanica, Answers.com, Encarta, etc.
You can know what is Kemetic philosophy reading Ra Un Nefer books much better than believing blindy faulty net resources. --as you implied by saying "The following is what Kemetic religion is all about"
I came to know it through the books Maat The 11 Laws of God and Metu Neter, I recommend you them, the teachings serve everybody.
Maat is another term for "divine law", just like Quran is. They are two totally distinct religions and carries the same blind and delusional beliefs underlying some of the basic universal principles which all religions teaches.
Here's something very interesting....A MUST READ
Ma?t (believed to be pronounced Muh-aht) was the Ancient Egyptian concept of law, morality, and justice which was deified as a goddess. As a goddess, her masculine counterpart was Djehuty (i.e. Thoth) and their attributes go hand in hand. Like Djehuty, she was seen to represent the Logos of Plato. Her primary role in Egyptian mythology dealt with the weighing of words that took place in the Underworld, Duat.Because it was the pharaoh's duty to ensure truth and justice, many of them were referred to as Meri-Ma'at (Beloved of Ma'at). Since she was considered as merely the concept of order and truth, it was thought that she came into existence at the moment of creation, having no creator. When beliefs about Thoth arose and started to consume the earlier beliefs at Hermopolis about the Ogdoad, it was said that she was the mother of the Ogdoad and Thoth the father.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma%C3%A0t
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3515 O men! It is you, who stand in need of God, whereas He alone is self-sufficient, the One to whom all praise is due.
5157 No Sustenance do I require of them, nor do I require that they should feed Me.
17107 Say Believe therein or believe not, lo! those who were given knowledge before it, when it is read unto them, fall down prostrate on their faces, adoring,
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Hi Danish
please, you still knows nothing what kemetic philosophy is about, kindly I ask you to stop reading wikipedia and taken everything there, please, have a look at those books and you will know what it is about.
Hello Elena,
wikipedia is not the infallible source of knowledge.
Encyclopedias are sources of extensive and most accurate information containing valuable references to vast line of subject matters. Ofcourse, it is not a detailed instruction book or a coaching/tuitioning manual but enlightens upon the subject itself as to what it is. Kemetic religion is just a grain of salt in the world of information contained in Encyclopedias, such as Wikipedia, Britanica, Answers.com, Encarta, etc.
You can know what is Kemetic philosophy reading Ra Un Nefer books much better than believing blindy faulty net resources. --as you implied by saying "The following is what Kemetic religion is all about"
I came to know it through the books Maat The 11 Laws of God and Metu Neter, I recommend you them, the teachings serve everybody.
Maat is another term for "divine law", just like Quran is. They are two totally distinct religions and carries the same blind and delusional beliefs underlying some of the basic universal principles which all religions teaches.
Here's something very interesting....A MUST READ
Ma?t (believed to be pronounced Muh-aht) was the Ancient Egyptian concept of law, morality, and justice which was deified as a goddess. As a goddess, her masculine counterpart was Djehuty (i.e. Thoth) and their attributes go hand in hand. Like Djehuty, she was seen to represent the Logos of Plato. Her primary role in Egyptian mythology dealt with the weighing of words that took place in the Underworld, Duat.Because it was the pharaoh's duty to ensure truth and justice, many of them were referred to as Meri-Ma'at (Beloved of Ma'at). Since she was considered as merely the concept of order and truth, it was thought that she came into existence at the moment of creation, having no creator. When beliefs about Thoth arose and started to consume the earlier beliefs at Hermopolis about the Ogdoad, it was said that she was the mother of the Ogdoad and Thoth the father.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma%C3%A0t