In which Religion where you Brought Up?And What are you Right Now?
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Peace phoenix1,
peace Andy,
I believe not believing in God is irrational, but not for the same reason as you.Could you share your illustration why disbelieving in God is irrational?
I believe there are many ways to illustrate and I would be really glad if you could share how you illustrate it. Thanks.
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I have listed other choices, but you choose not to accept it without any reason. To you a belief in god, is an either-or proposition. This is fallacy of the excluded middle.
4216 And those who debate about God, after they had been answered, their argument is nullified at their Lord. They have incurred a wrath, and will have a severe retribution.
Your pascal wager is based on the unproven assumption that god rewards belief and a judeo-christian-islamic god. Why do one have to accept these assumptions? The pascal wager can be used from any gods, from allah to zeus. How can you be sure that you choose the pascal wager for the correct god/gods?
Continue waiting; for I will wait along with you
If a pascal wager is a good reason to believe in god then in the same vein, the atheist wager as presented by phoenix1 will also constitute a good reason not to believe in god.
1418 The example of those who reject their Lord is that their works are like ashes, on which the wind blows strongly on a stormy day, they cannot get anything of what they earned. Such is the farthest misguidance.
Neither believe nor disbelieve in god is not the same as disbelieve in god.
2255 And those who have rejected will remain to be in doubt from it until the Hour comes to them suddenly, or the retribution will come to them on a Day which will stand still.
2256 The sovereignty on that Day is to God, He will judge between them. So as for those who have believed and did good works, they are in the gardens of Paradise.
2257 And those who rejected and disbelieved Our revelations, those will have a humiliating retribution.Why don't you just give good reasons for disbelieving in God?
I have never said I disbelieve in god. Why do I have to give reasons for it when I did not make a claim. Neither do I claim that I believe in god.
2255 And those who have rejected will remain to be in doubt from it until the Hour comes to them suddenly, or the retribution will come to them on a Day which will stand still.
2256 The sovereignty on that Day is to God, He will judge between them. So as for those who have believed and did good works, they are in the gardens of Paradise.
2257 And those who rejected and disbelieved Our revelations, those will have a humiliating retribution.I don't have to prove anything to you. The only thing I need to tell you is
- if you disbelieve in God, you will go to hell forever
- if you believe in God, you will go to paradise
Show me your good reasons to disbelieve in God!
This is how the game works! Got it?
The pascal wager again and I have already address this in the first part of the post.
Continue waiting; for I will wait along with you
Hello Andy,
So you quote verses. Is it relevant to the issue at hand? Isn't the issue is about the belief in god based on the pascal wager? You did not answer the criticisms on the pascal wager and evade them by quoting verses.
Best wishes and happy waiting.
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Hi splatter,
Hello Andy,
So you quote verses. Is it relevant to the issue at hand? Isn't the issue is about the belief in god based on the pascal wager? You did not answer the criticisms on the pascal wager and evade them by quoting verses.
Best wishes and happy waiting.
That is what is commanded by God to deal with disbelievers.
5231 Say "Continue waiting; for I will wait along with you."
And in case you didn't realize, that is the answer )
Peace peace
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Peace
According to Elena, those who pray like that are "hypocrital, selfish and coward, really, it looks to me even silly".
two falsehoods in that short line. I said nothing about praying, I was never criticising people, I criticize your option reason believing out of being safe (instead of sincere believing as that looks to me).
I won't reply you anymore. handshake
Peace
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Peace
According to Elena, those who pray like that are "hypocrital, selfish and coward, really, it looks to me even silly".
two falsehoods in that short line. I said nothing about praying, I was never criticising people, I criticize your option reason believing out of being safe (instead of sincere believing as that looks to me).
I think you fail to understand my post. That is one of the ways to illustrate that disbelieving in God is irrational. I have support from quran to deal with disbelievers that way (such as what people call pascal wager).
4152 Proclaim "What if this is truly from GOD, then you decide to reject it? Who are farther astray than those who decide to oppose this?"
I believe there are many ways as Allah tells us in quran
4153 We will show them Our signs in the horizons, and within themselves, until it becomes clear to them that this is the truth. Is it not enough that your Lord is witness over all things?
Allah has described the mentality of disbelievers. They will keep asking proofs and proofs while the ayats are already everywhere. This is also the mentality of atheists. They want to "see God" otherwise they won't believe. And since we all never see God in this world, if they keep asking we are commanded to say "Continue waiting; for I will wait along with you."
5231 Say "Continue waiting; for I will wait along with you."
So in conclusion, I believe how I deal with disbelivers in this thread has supports from quran. Consequently, if you criticize the way I deal with them, then I would expect you to provide your supports from quran, otherwise I will treat that as emotional conjectures.
Also you didn't address my post since you don't have evidences from quran to support your personal emotional feelings. I repeat again sincere does not mean hoping NOTHING.
Another thing is Allah Himself commands us to FEAR HIM and you arrogantly claim that "I don't fear Allah ...I am sincere" (you can call that falsehood because you never said that but I would say it is implied from your -false- understanding of sincere).
I won't reply you anymore. handshake
Peace
Peace peace
handshake
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aslamualaykm! handshake
you missed catholic,i marked christian 2 muslim.which is the closest to catholic, a little less corrupt in means of who runs the religions...they sent me to church to take satanic comunion and i learned more about our creator so it was good in a way.
aslm! handshake -
Raised Jehovah's Witness. Got over that at age 36. Converted to Sunni Islam in 1996 - based on the shahada(s) There is no God but God and Mohammed was a messenger of God. About most everything else I had a problem with and argued about. Just kinda hung out not doing much about religion until I discovered the Submitters site. Thought, wow not that makes sense....xcept for the 19 thing and the if you die before 40 you go straight to heaven thing....THEN I just recently discovered Quran alone!! Finally something that makes sense. My husband is a Sunni Muslim - so let's just say the conversations are a little tense. ) I am from Dearborn, Michigan originally. Have lived in Boca Raton, FLA and right now in Los Angeles, CA. (i lurk alot -- kinda quiet) )
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Thank you for the welcome. It is nice to hear answers or at least a discussion on different subjects - instead of the usual - I don't know - I didn't write the rules... brickwall
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peace Andy, you asked about why I think disbelief in God is irrational. The answer is that the "intelligent design" of our creator is everywhere. The signs of God are there for us to be recognized. Someone who ignores these signs is indeed rejecting the truth.
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Hello phoenix1,
peace Andy, you asked about why I think disbelief in God is irrational. The answer is that the "intelligent design" of our creator is everywhere. The signs of God are there for us to be recognized. Someone who ignores these signs is indeed rejecting the truth.
Agree bro (but honestly I personally don't expect that answer since it is well known - I was expecting "groundbreaking answer" -> something new to me)
Peace peace
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Peace exjw,
Raised Jehovah's Witness. Got over that at age 36. Converted to Sunni Islam in 1996 - based on the shahada(s) There is no God but God and Mohammed was a messenger of God. About most everything else I had a problem with and argued about. Just kinda hung out not doing much about religion until I discovered the Submitters site. Thought, wow not that makes sense....xcept for the 19 thing and the if you die before 40 you go straight to heaven thing....THEN I just recently discovered Quran alone!! Finally something that makes sense. My husband is a Sunni Muslim - so let's just say the conversations are a little tense. I am from Dearborn, Michigan originally. Have lived in Boca Raton, FLA and right now in Los Angeles, CA. (i lurk alot -- kinda quiet)
welcome
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Thanks for the welcome Andy!...My husband grew up in Germany, in Hamburg. So of course he is fluent in German, Arabic and English (naturalische? I think that's right) ;D
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Salamun 'alaykum wr wb sister exjw,
Thanks for the welcome Andy!...My husband grew up in Germany, in Hamburg.
Oh really? Nice to hear that
So of course he is fluent in German, Arabic and English (naturalische? I think that's right) ;D
Almost right sister ...It should be "nat?rlich"
How did you meet him the first time? I guess not in Germany, or?
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No, not in Germany, in Dearborn, Michigan - at a Borders Book Store, on a cold October evening - I got distracted from what I was reading...by tall, dark and handsome
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No, not in Germany, in Dearborn, Michigan - at a Borders Book Store, on a cold October evening - I got distracted from what I was reading...by tall, dark and handsome )
Masha Allah ...love at the first sight )
Got distracted ...and ...and ...and then finally he said "Ich liebe dich" sun
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and the rest is history...!
bttt
I was trying to explain to my husband how encouraging and faith building it is to read the different experiences from our brothers and sisters on the board of how they came to Islam or to Quran Alone. Hopefully one day he will be more interested to find out WHY they have such joy. When we used to go to the mosque in Windsor, Ontario, Canada - though I am very close with the Shiek and his wife and family - the mosque experience itself was rather dark and scary to me - like the same feeling when I enter a Catholic church. When I read the experiences here - I smile despite myself!
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Salaam sister exjw ( ex Jehovah Witness? ),
and the rest is history...!
bttt
I was trying to explain to my husband how encouraging and faith building it is to read the different experiences from our brothers and sisters on the board of how they came to Islam or to Quran Alone. Hopefully one day he will be more interested to find out WHY they have such joy.
I don't know what you meant by "the rest is history" in your post but I pray for you sis so that you will be just fine ...Insha Allah.
When we used to go to the mosque in Windsor, Ontario, Canada - though I am very close with the Shiek and his wife and family - the mosque experience itself was rather dark and scary to me - like the same feeling when I enter a Catholic church. When I read the experiences here - I smile despite myself!
After I came to God Alone, I also feel frightened to see and hear how Muhammad is being glorified "next to" Allah in mosque here.