Tempting with immortality in paradise, like selling icecubes in the northpole?
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Hi there,
20120
But the devil whispered to him, he said "O Adam, shall I lead you to the tree of immortality and a kingdom which will not waste away?"How come satan is tempting Adam with immortality? Doesn't the atmosphere in paradise automatically make you immortal?
Man's characted is weak, when he gets good thing he want better ones...And why is satan tempting Adam with a kingdom, when he and his wife were the only ones in paradise? Whom would he rule over? What was left to rule over? Hadn't the angels submitted to him?
Who says so, Adam was not only ones in paradise, because paradise was not something in heaven, it called as jannah a kingdom that he ruled over his people. There has nerver been a kingdom without people !!!Satan tempting adam with immortality and a kingdom, is like someone tempting eskimos with icecubes.
What's going on?
Was Adam simply stupid, or have we misunderstood this example?
Nadeem
No one is stupid if he knows the real story of Adam (QS.2/30-35)
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Hi there,
First, it was not my intent to ridicule 'adam'. Rather I wanted to subtly suggest that it was our understanding about the subject that was corrupt. Apologies for being unclear the last time.
Second, my outset in this discussion was based on the traditional teachings, as I'm largely illiterate about the truth on this. God Willing, I'll change for the better.
"mulk" as "kingdom" is fair, but one should also appreciate where this word stems from or implies, and that is to have rule/command/control/sovereignty, i.e. freedom from external control, i.e. to be in charge.
So bearing this in mind, one can say "adam" was tempted by the offer of eternal control/sovereignty (perhaps over the dominion he was in).
Ah...I see. But, if it was the very prohibition against the tree that ticked adam, then he was in no need for satan to entice him with kingdom and immortality. Satan could simply remind him of the tree and the prohibition, making adam crazy and at last burst and surrender to his ego. However, it seems that Adam was capable of supressing the natural rebellion against prohibitions.
It was when the tree was described to him, when it was sugarcoated, that he found it worth his while.
The prohibition only became an itch to him, when the alleged qualities of the tree were related to him.Additionally, paradise is described as a place of "hearing no non-sense", if I recall correctly. How on earth can adam then hear the non-sense of satan?
This leads me to entertaining the idea that adam was not in the garden we are promised. I've read several articles on this, but my crippled arabic makes me halt and hesitate to the point of stagnation. I can't decide.
The other idea is that it is possible to achieve a temporary and non-permanent mental-paradise in the earthly-life, a mental state which after death extends beyond the limitation of the human and becomes permanent. At this point, this idea is unsupported wishful thinking, at best.
But i'd like to think that there is some basis to this, as it might make adam's case a bit clearer.
The permanent paradise is non-sense-less, yet adam was in a paradise where he could here satan's non-sense.
This might mean that adam was on earth, in a mental-paradise, which is a immediate subject to the actions of a person.The permanent paradise is more of a long-term subject to ones action, considering your actions as whole.
I don't know if i'm making sense. Just thinking, wishfully.
I'm having a hard time believing that the example of adam is an actual happening in the literal sense.
I like to think of it as an example were are to heed. And this is my understanding
Adam was at peace, in a temporary paradise. The prohibition against "the tree" was simple, and adam was ok with it, until satan made it look like the prohibition limited his power, freedom and authority. Until satan convinced him that the limitations put on him was useless, adam had no problem against the prohibition. This simple prohibition, to which he had no prior problems with, became unbearable when he became enticed by power and might. Adam succumbing to his lusts and desires made him loose the temporal paradise, but he regained it when he repented.
Hmm..I alreade see some holes in my theory. Like, when adam 'fell' he saw their nudity and tried to cover it. Does this mean that people in the temporal-paradise should become nudists, as they don't see the shame of nudity anylonger? Doesn't make sense.
Hope im not speaking gibberish. Thanks for the input. -)
Nadeem
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Peace to you to Brother,
Free Minds 457
And those who believe and do good, We will admit them to gardens with rivers flowing beneath, eternally they abide therein, in it they will have pure spouses, and We will admit them to a vast shade.Free Minds 4122
As for those who believe and do good work, We will admit them gardens with rivers flowing beneath, eternally they will abide therein. God's promise is truth; and who is more truthful in saying than God?Free Minds 4169
Except to the path of Hell, in it they will abide eternally. For God this is very easy.Free Minds 922
They will abide in it eternally. God has a great reward.Free Minds 9100
And those who came early and quickly from amongst the emigrants and the supporters, and those who followed them in kindness; God has accepted them, and they have accepted Him; and He prepared for them gardens with rivers flowing beneath in which they will abide eternally. Such is the great success.Free Minds 183
In which they will abide eternally.Free Minds 3365
Eternally they abide therein. They will find no ally, or victor.Free Minds 627
But they will never long for it, because of what their hands have brought forth. God is fully aware of the wicked.Free Minds 649
The Day when He will gather you, the Day of Gathering. That is the Day of mutual blaming. And whosoever believes in God and does good works, He will remit his sins, and will admit him into paradises with rivers flowing beneath to abide therein forever. Such is the greatest triumph.Free Minds 6511
A messenger who recites to you God's revelations, which are clear, to lead those who believe and work righteousness out of the darkness into the light. Anyone who believes in God and does good works, He will admit him into paradises with rivers flowing beneath; they abide therein forever. God has granted for him and excellent reward.Free Minds 7223
It is but an announcement from God, and His messages. And whosoever disobeys God and His messenger, then he will have the fire of Hell to dwell eternally therein.Free Minds 988
Their reward with their Lord is the gardens of Eden with rivers flowing beneath them, they abide eternally therein. God is satisfied with them, and they are satisfied with Him. That is for whoever feared His Lord.Nadeem
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peace nadeem,
I didn't think you were mocking "adam" at all, I just wanted to give a different word for it, for reflection. To me, being forethoughtful is a powerful concept/description.
Some of your questions assume "shaytan" was a separate being. Perhaps, perhaps not, but I wouldn't assume "shaytan" was unless of course one has studied it and come to this conclusion.
Secondly, there is some interesting info about "adam" not being in a mythical paradise, but rather on earth as you suggest. There are a few articles on it, e.g. this one.
I actually reflected on the story of "adam" recently, and I began to see connections with humans becoming the khalif/successor on earth (i.e. the evolutionary peak, and the transition from our previous ancestor to a human being and all that comes with it free choice, responsibility, speech, communication, power, weakness, God-awareness, revelation, beginning of the test and its rules etc). I believe this important transition phase is strongly represented in the story of "adam", or at least, this is my working hypothesis at the present time.
Wakas
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Peace beupon you
My observation with the above is the Evil one is not totally lying
But the evil one is misguiding and misdirecting Adam. Also I believe
Adam personifies all mankind and a similar trial is on every man .By eating from the tree Adam ?inherited? the earth. So the earth
became a kingdom for man or Children of Adam. Man feels his life
in earth is eternal (at least that is the way he acts) although it is only
an illusion.For Adam and his mate the first thing which happens after eating
from the tree is that their shame became obvious to them. I guess
this is the first indication of their earthly life , the procreating aspect
of man, and in other words as if Adams seed is going to continue
eternally.These are my opinions on the issue but as you can see I can not
base them on concrete facts. -
How come satan is tempting Adam with immortality? Doesn't the atmosphere in paradise automatically make you immortal?
You're right about Paradise. Adam was not in Paradise. He was right here on Earth where he was familiar with death and need.
Moreover, God created him to be a successor on Earth. Why would He put him in paradise? Is paradise even created yet?
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Peace Bro Layth, Sis Samia,
Something we agree on.
As a side note I also accept evolution theory, and that at one stage, Allah breathed of His spirit on what was to become Adam when the conditions were right (Homo Sapiens with capability of awareness of God)... -
Peace Noble,
There was an interesting book written some years back by Dr. Abdulsaboor Shaheen (professor at Azhar University) where he argued using verses from the Quran that evolution is a reality and that the
ruh/spiritwas only blown into Adam after he had reached a certain level of development (please note that most creatures have anafs/soul, but only humans have aruh/spiritas well).Anyway, this was a huge subject and some other scholars called for his imprisonment as an apostate who is peddling ideas outside the accepted norm.
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Peace Noble,
There was an interesting book written some years back by Dr. Abdulsaboor Shaheen (professor at Azhar University) where he argued using verses from the Quran that evolution is a reality and that the
ruh/spiritwas only blown into Adam after he had reached a certain level of development (please note that most creatures have anafs/soul, but only humans have aruh/spiritas well).Anyway, this was a huge subject and some other scholars called for his imprisonment as an apostate who is peddling ideas outside the accepted norm.
Ruh is not spirit who make men alife, but the understanding of Al Kitab that blown to men's consiousness. Muhammad was blow by Ruhul Quds, as well as Jesus and other prophets (See QS.42/52) as a result they come to fight for etablishment of deen (QS.42/13).
Islam without Rasul that blown by uhul Quds is nothing....
