Is the Salat physical?
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Where in the Quran does it talk about abstract. Abstract is a word humans use becwuse of our limited understanding.
The Quran is very practical and talks about our place in the universe and our relationship to our Creator.
Everything it describes is real, and it sometimes uses examples, parables and metaphors to explain away what we have no experience of yet...
We will experience some of these realities when the time comes.
I for one would hope I will not experience the reality of Hell, and instead experience the reality of Paradise. -
Abstract
- thought of apart from concrete realities, specific objects, or actual instances an abstract idea.
- expressing a quality or characteristic apart from any specific object or instance, as justice, poverty, and speed.
- theoretical; not applied or practical abstract science.
- difficult to understand; abstruse abstract speculations.
Things can be real but not physical. Real does not mean physical. Quran talks about many abstract things such as beliefs, truth, justice, desires, emotions, etc. These are all real things. Just because something isn't an object or a place, doesn't mean it's not real. It's a pretty simple fact.
Another fact is that if we take the quran literally, we end up with idiotic nonsense which can only be supported by "faith."
Child "why does the quran say this?" confused
Father -["don't ask questions! why is your faith so weak? can't you accept without questioning what God says?!? are you that faithless? where is your faith? don't think, don't ask why, just believe!" >(
Child hypno
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peace
the problem with the greeks was that they were good at thinking about things. They didn't actually verify their thoughts through experiments. Aristotle thought about objects falling, and he concluded that heavier objects fall faster than lighter objects. Galileo proved that wrong very easily, because he thought he'd test Aristotle's ideas instead of just believing them.
Greeks weren't all bad, though. -
Peace
Well if it were not for the Muslims, we would not have known much about the Greeks' Philosophy, even the Westerners (shall I say we, as I am half), admit that.
I do accept that experiments have also their limitations, however it seems to me that you take the Scientific Method as being infallible, it ain't.
The procedures we use are determined in fact by what we agree to be acceptable, combined with the use of models that are mostly very localised. To generalise based on these is very fallacious. The map is not the territory...
There is no doubt for me that whatever Allah wants us to discover, we will in due time, He said it very clearly in Surat AlRahman.
We should be careful not to idolise the current status quo, as we might be a few discoveries away of a completely different cosmogony, it just takes a paradigm shift to achieve that.
So I keep my options and opinions open...
However I trust my Creator, and this is an act of Faith in Him, that all will be revealed when appropriate, and in any case after I shall come to die.
God bless
Noble -
Peace,
Although i believe the MAIN meaning of Salat is following closely as in following the Divine Laws, where iqamasalat means establish that (System=Deen) which comes through following of the Divine Laws, i also believe Salat can be approached as prayer, but this is not the main meaning and is certainly not the most important thing in the Quran. Human rights is the main message of the Quran. But i have written a small article on prayer inside the Quran out of self-interrest and to use it as an example for Hadith-upholders.
http//19.org/index.php?arnold
See top article....
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Philosophy aside. Let's presume that salaat is physical. Apart from prostration and ablution, what are the other physical aspects, and how to perform a complete salaat?
peace
no one ever said salat is not physical. I believe salat is physical, it just doesn't require us to recite anything or prostrate or bow down. -
There is something wrong with the idea of Salat as Prayer, physical or not that is less important.
We can be killers and pray, pedophiles and pray, thiefs and pray. As long as something does not have the effect of keeping you away from these major sins than their importance is limited, right? -
And that is the whole crux of the matter dion... bravo
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Dion, please...
enough of edit as requested by mod idolfree1 comments...
Its like saying brushing my teeth does not stop me from stealing, so I should stop brushing my teeth...
Dont mix carrots with papaya...
edit as requested by mod idolfree1* things people put forward hypno
If people have issues they should seek help, salat is also done in congregation and it has been found out that people who come from communities that foster strong bonds, and even if those bonds are considered "limiting", live healthier, longer and more wholesome (ie decent) lives (cf. The Mormons...) than those who live in so-called freedom societies.
The Iqami Salat is being able to do it in congregations, without any duress or force... -
Ah,but mister noble,brushing your teeth is not claimed to improve your behaviour/keep you away from sins,yet salat is supposed to achieve just that.(2945.) Many physical salats are offered by suicide bombers,murderers and oppressors...
As for communities making people more likely to be healthy,well lets all go to disneyland as a congregation or to the cinema!!! -
Thanks elke,i still have my uses you know!!!
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What are you talking about dearest nobility??!! Maybe you need to have a nap!
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Thank you, I just had a nap, and I feel more tired than before I had it!
Guys, you are so very naive...
Let me advise you of something, some of the people you refer to, such as the jihadists, do not feel bound by practicing Salat at all.
Their philosophy is that until they manage to establish a khilafa on earth and a world-wide islamic state, the Salat is not compulsory, as their jihad takes precedence to establishing Salat.
They believe that once khilafa is established, then they can establish, and order Salat.
In the mean time anything goes, so far as they can do what they like to do best, such as suicide bomb, terrorise and what have you, until they fulfil their aim...
So how can you say that Salat is supposed to stop them, since they are not practicing it, and in fact will do any sin, so far as it will help their (misguided) cause...
brickwall -
peace Dion
There is something wrong with the idea of Salat as Prayer, physical or not that is less important.
We can be killers and pray, pedophiles and pray, thiefs and pray. As long as something does not have the effect of keeping you away from these major sins than their importance is limited, right?Yes! the point is that bowing down and prostrating and saying "Allah is great" isn't going to change anything for us. Salat is supposed to take you from bad to good. What better way than to program yourself through meditation?
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Salam,
we have no empirical evidence that physical salat does not help to keep away frm evil.The sectarians are not good examples as they know not what they are saying in their salat,most of them that is,hence God says woe to those who observe the salat and are heedless,however for those who reflect upon its meanings when they pray I am sure it helps them as they recite frm the scripture and constantly remember God throughout the salat without their mind being heedless.Salam
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peace matinbhagat,
I never argued that salat is not physical. I just said we need not bow and prostrate to change ourselves for the better.
We do have empirical evidence of how people's behavior can change through hypnotism and meditation.
But then again, there is no "ritual" for salat because there is no one correct method. It is the EFFECT that counts. So as long as what you are doing as "salat" is making you a better person, then you are on the right track.
I believe that meditation fits the quran better than other understandings, but you see something different. And as long as your salat and my salat is accomplishing it's purpose, then obviously there should be no further arguments.
So is there something you want to change about yourself? of course.
So why don't you verify your version of salat? test it to see if it works. If it does, then great. If it doesn't, you need a better understanding of what the quran means by salat, or the quran itself is wrong.
We are to look at all views and follow the best.