Another Surah Like It
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Well if allah says so,it must be true,hey??!! So no point in questioning what allah says,just follow his alleged words, and what people think those words mean. (which of course means differing and contradictory views from differing people on the exact same verses.)....True circular logic....? What ever happened to verse 1736,and all the claims that the quran encourages you to think and ponder before making claims and judgements??? muscle muscle handshake
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salam and what about verses like we hear and obey?what about challenging Allah?Why is it wrong to take Allah's word as it is?for me if Allah says it i hear and obey and acknowledge it,how others take it,does not affect me.Salam
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If allahs words are clear enough for you to understand with the hundreds of differing and contradictory explanations,and if commands which defy moral sense are fine to follow,then i suppose you can use allah as an excuse to do whatever you think the quran says...But in reality these senseless interpretations,challenges and theological guessworks will be opposed... muscle muscle muscle handshake
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Sura Like It )
Haha, in the first fake sura in its very first verse, there is a contradiction (can you work it out?), therefore it is not like it and it is not from our God
that was funny, jeep the entertainment up losers (this is for them not for you bro)
salam
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If allahs words are clear enough for you to understand with the hundreds of differing and contradictory explanations,and if commands which defy moral sense are fine to follow,then i suppose you can use allah as an excuse to do whatever you think the quran says...But in reality these senseless interpretations,challenges and theological guessworks will be opposed... muscle muscle muscle handshake
You said it right, 'enquirer'. With such contradictions and differing explanations, any "surah like it" will do, with Allah as an excuse? yay
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salaam danish,
this is a nice poem you wrote! )
why do people think the quran is a threat? god challenges us and he answers for us, he is the supreme. i don't think there was a challenge from the quran to bring a surah like it, but i have read verses afterwords which says
223 And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to Our servant, then bring a chapter like this, and call upon your witnesses other than God if you are truthful.
224 And if you cannot do this; and you will not be able to do this; then beware the Fire whose fuel is people and stones, it has been prepared for the rejecters. (free-minds translation)
so yeah, how could you compare something else with the quran when we cannot even comprehend the value of the quran itself? confused ??? because god says we can't he also says
He is the One who sent down to you the Scripture, from which there are governing verses; they are the essence of the Scripture; and others which are similar. As for those who have disease in their hearts, they will follow what is similar from it seeking to confuse, and seeking to derive an interpretation. But none know its interpretation except God and those who are well founded in knowledge, they Say "We believe in it, all is from our Lord." And none will remember except the people of understanding.(37)
most of us don't even know what does the quran means anyways, first, measure the value of the quran, then come up with a surah like it. remember, the quran is not a threat.
stilll, danish wrote a pretty nice "poem"
peace, rifat
peace, rifat
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But none know its interpretation except God and those who are well founded in knowledge, they Say "We believe in it, all is from our Lord." And none will remember except the people of understanding.(37)
The above verse can also be read in another way "But none know its interpretation except God." And those who are well founded in knowledge say "We believe in it, all is from our Lord and none will remember except people of understanding."
Either way, "Allah" have mercy upon Himself for making such a statement.
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No Danish.
The way you are translating it makes absolutely no sense.
Peace.
Here's Ayman's take on it003.007
YUSUFALI He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book In it are verses
basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation
of the Book others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is
perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord,
and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden
meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge
say "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord" and
none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.
PICKTHAL He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture
wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and
others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt
pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause)
dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save
Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say We believe therein;
the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed.
SHAKIR He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses
are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are
allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they
follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and
seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its
interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in
knowledge say We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do
mind except those having understanding.
KHALIFA He sent down to you this scripture, containing straightforward
verses - which constitute the essence of the scripture - as well as
multiple-meaning or allegorical verses. Those who harbor doubts in their
hearts will pursue the multiple-meaning verses to create confusion, and
to extricate a certain meaning. None knows the true meaning thereof
except GOD and those well founded in knowledge. They say, "We believe in
this - all of it comes from our Lord." Only those who possess
intelligence will take heed.The "waw" can be used both to separate a new sentence and for addition
(similar to an English "and". We find examples of both types of usages
in the great reading. So only looking at the "waw" doesn't tell us
enough information to decide either way. So we need to look at other
info in the passage. When we look at the rest of the passage we see that
the verb coming after "those who are firmly grounded in knowledge" is
the verb "say" in the plural ("yaquloon". Now notice how all
translators above, except for Khalifa, correctly don't put the pronoun
"hum" (they) before "yaquloon" and they just replicate the exact Arabic
sentence as "those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say". Only
Khalifa is forced to put the pronoun "they" before "say", which is
non-existent in the Arabic original, to make the passage work. This is
for the simple reason that Khalifa knew very well that not putting the
"they" in front of "say" and adding "those well founded in knowledge" to
GOD would result in "GOD and those well founded in knowledge say".
Since, clearly the sentence "We believe in this - all of it comes from
our Lord" cannot be uttered by The God, then he needed to change the
words and insert a pronoun that is not in the original Arabic. The other
translators didn't have to do that because they ended the sentence
before the "waw". So in this case, the evidence from the passage itself
leans heavily towards the "waw" being used as a sentence separator as
opposed to for addition.More evidence is in the word "taawil" itself. I don't think that any of
the translators really did a good job in translating this key word. The
word comes from "awal" which means "original/first/ultimate". So it is
not just any meaning/understanding/interpretation but it is the
original/first/ultimate meaning/understanding/interpretation. Now this
type of meaning can only be known to the author of the text that is
subject to interpretation. This is true even for human authors. For
example, you can understand and interpret what an author means in a
novel but maybe you don't know that he or she based this passage on a
childhood experience or a certain likes and dislikes, etc. Essentially,
you would heve to delve into the psyche of the human author to know the
original/first/ultimate meaning/understanding/interpretation. Of course,
this is impossible.Other passages of the great reading confirm this understanding. You see
the same word in 753. It is addressing those who are waiting or expect
the original/first/ultimate meaning/understanding/interpretation. The
passage says that when the actual original/first/ultimate
meaning/understanding/interpretation comes, it will be on the day of the
account and by then it will be too late.Look around you and empirically verify the right path by comparing it to
the path of the stayers (16-7). You will see that the people who think
that they have the original/first/ultimate
meaning/understanding/interpretation have stopped trying to get closer
to the truth. They are misguided and not progressing. If you or I
thought that we had the original/first/ultimate
meaning/understanding/interpretation, then we wouldn't be here today. It
is only those who are firmly grounded in reality that know that what we
know is far less than what we don't know. This is true about all of The
God's signs in the universe and not just in the great reading.I think that 37 and 7431 are linked together by 226. Here is my
translation of those passages-
He is the one who descended on you the book. From it are judging
signs that are the origin of the book, and others that are allegorical.
So in the case of
(1) Those in whose hearts there is blurriness, they pursue what is
allegorical from it (the book) desiring the "fitna"/trial/affliction and
desiring its (what is allegorical from the book) original
interpretation. And none knows its (what is allegorical from the book)
original interpretation except The God. And,
(2) Those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say "We have faith in it
(the book), both (types of signs) are from our Lord."
And none remembers other than those with intellects. -
The God does not shy away from citing any kind of allegory, from a
mosquito to what is greater. As for those who have faith, they know that
it is the truth from their Lord. As for those who are unappreciative,
they say, "What did The God mean by such an allegory misleading many
thereby and guiding many thereby?" But He never misleads thereby except
the wicked. -
And we didn't make the owners/companions of the Fire except
controllers; and
We didn't make their count except as a "fitna"/trial/affliction for
those who have been unappreciative;
so that
(1) those who were given the book be sure, those who had faith increase
in faith and those who were given the book and those who had faith do
not have doubt.
And, so that
(2) those in whose hearts there is sickness and the unappreciative say
"What did The God want with this example?" Like this The God misguides
whom He wills and guides whom He wills.
And none knows your Lord's soldiers except Him.
And it is nothing except a reminder for the humans.
I hope that you can see those connections.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
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Hello phoenix1,
My point was not about cat and mouse chase as to whether Toms & Jerrys are right/wrong or whether all the king's horses and all the king's men can't put this humpty dumpty together, but to stress the crucial point in quote below which entirely escaped
Either way, "Allah" have mercy upon Himself for making such a statement.
Since you quoted Ayman's analysis, here's what I agree when it comes to cherry-picking (emphasized in bold)
- Since, clearly the sentence "We believe in this - all of it comes from
our Lord" cannot be uttered by The God - Now this type of meaning can only be known to the author of the text that is
subject to interpretation. - It is only those who are firmly grounded in reality that know that what we
know is far less than what we don't know.
- Since, clearly the sentence "We believe in this - all of it comes from
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I don't get what you mean by that qouted statement.
Either way, "Allah" have mercy upon Himself for making such a statement?No problem, phoenix1, let me summarize the statement I made above by the following points
- people are deaf, dumb and blind
- minds that cannot understand, eyes that cannot vision and ears that cannot listen.
- Man is made perfect
- only intelligent people can understand
- only Allah knows best
- clear revelation with "proofs" that only a wicked will reject.
- verify all information
- remember and recall events of the bygone millenniums
- do not follow something you have no knowledge of
- Arabic is the perfect unambiguous language for its final revelation and religion
- must believe in everything, obey all commands and fear HIM or get instilled with terror, trauma and torture, for HE's the most jolly-good fellow (most merciful, most gracious).
Equating and analyzing the scenarios presented above, as per the Quran, the proclamation of interpreting and understanding parts of its haphazard compilation, to begin with, becomes unreliable and senseless.
Edited and revised.