The non-muslims of the forum
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Science is verifiable and has some universal principles....Science does not differ on as basic and fundamental a premise as 'salat'...Science does not call scientists with divergent opinions kafirs,censure each other,or condemn each other to hell...
jm; so how do i submit to this god,beacuse you cant agree on his laws from the quran???? -
Hi brother,
Please, do not exalt the scientists as 'all-good'. They're not. They're humans and just like the rest of us. They take pride in what they've achieved, and so do we. They judge others by their will, so do we.
Whether they call their opposing scientist brothers for kafirs or lunatics, doesn't matter. The resentment is there and is there regardless of profession. All of us compete, and we'd all like to win. It's that simple. Btw, did you know that the name 'big bang' was actually coined by those who tried to ridicule the theory? And they were scientists! So how's that for 'differing on basic and fundamental premises'.
You're talking like the history of science is any cleaner than the history of religion. Take another peak brother, they're both humans. They both long for power.
But brother we can do this your way. The scientific way. Where only the doctors and professors talk, while the rest nod and follow. Is that how you want it? Well, you've got it in the secterian religions all over the world. They're pretty 'scientific', perhaps not in their sayings, but definitly in their hierarchy.
But, that's not the aim of this site. It wants everyone in on it. And when everyone's in on it, it gets hard, real hard for the initiative takers. But so far they've been more than happy to volunteer for this job. They deserve an applause. Nothing less, every bit more.
I apoligize for the attitude.
Nadeem
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Peace JM,
I understand where you're coming from. I would add my thoughts to this. When I joined the forum (since you're a long time member here, you would know what I'm talking about) the quality of discussion was quite a notch above the drudgery present on the forum nowadays, which might or might not be a result of the increase in traffic. To discuss something substantially, I'm having to go outside this forum because these interruptions are useless and belie the purpose of discussing. As an example, I wanted to post about an interesting issue today which I decided to post on another forum just because I know that the flamers will arrive and I will either have to start defending stuff or have to post a disclaimer on the type of responses I would like which I do not want to do because I think that's going against the purpose of an open discussion (at the same time I don't want those type of responses that are clearcut flamebait and having to move them to the trash, it's too much effort to expend). No matter how many rules we put in, doesn't take away from the simple fact...of knowing when and how to post. There have been many users on the forum that, while not believing, knew how to post and which threads to post on, rather than roaming amok, spraying everywhere and invariably pissing off countless people deliberately while feigning ignorance and innocence.
There are people like this in the real world as well btw, but the thing is, we choose to come here and discuss and not want to have to constantly either defend accusations or prove something whenever we log in and see these threads, just like real life as well...where we don't want to constantly talk or interact with these people. It's easy to say, oh let it go but if we see it, most of the times one is responsible for doing something about it which gets so damn tiring when it's all the time. So, in conclusion, I once again would add, I know where you're coming from and hopefully these things will get resolved soon and for the better.
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The victim mentality,paranoia,and conspiracy theories.... Pot,kettle,black.....A lack of insight on the part of self-rigteous and intolerant posters......
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There should be no segregation of any kind in this forum. My advice is just let the 'dogs' bark. If you do not like some posters just ignore them. I think it is better to kick out disrespectful members who are too full of hatred and uncomfortable with civilized manners in discussions than creating 'social system' or something. Besides, in my opinion only God can be sure who is a 'muslim/submitter' and who is not...
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peace
what a useless thread this is. I say delete it!
By non-muslims, I'm sure JM means athiest (since anyone who believes in God CLAIMS to submit to God).I do think there is a lot more junk on this forum then when I joined 11 months ago. Mainly due to more active members I think. But there is nothing we can do about it than come up with ideas like this one (not your best contributions JM, I must say) that limit people's freedoms and create divisions.
Everyone should be allowed to post whereever they like. If you don't like what someone's posting, then attack (in a civil manner) their argument not them (the poster).
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After due reflection, I think my suggestion was not relevant.
The problem I see does not lie in the presence of atheists in the general section, but in their advocacy of atheism in it.
I think advocacy of atheism again Islam should be done only in the appropriate section (Critical examination of Islam).
I think advocacy of sunnism against Islam should be done only in the appropriate section (Sunni/Shia religion).
I think advocacy of Christianity against Islam should be done only in the appropriate section (Christianity/Judaism/others).It is not about banning anyone because of his ideas, it is about putting things in their right place.
In the General Isssues / questions section, there is a room named How you came to God Alone. But there is no room named How you came to atheism, or How do you came to Sunnism.
It proves that this forum is mainly designed to deal with Islam ; it is not designed to deal with every kind of deen in an equitable manner.Peace
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It is not about banning anyone because of his ideas, it is about putting things in their right place.
In the General Isssues / questions section, there is a room named How you came to God Alone. But there is no room named How you came to atheism, or How do you came to Sunnism.
It proves that this forum is mainly designed to deal with Islam ; it is not designed to deal with every kind of deen in an equitable manner.I would agree with you brother; this forum is designed to deal majorly with Islam and after popular demand, minorly with other issues as well. The problem, as you noted, is not about people coming in to learn or ask questions or being doubtful. It's about being destructive, ironically sometimes, to the very 'truth' that they like to tout and it gets very annoying. Sooner or later, they trip up to the point of being kicked out and that's not being selective in the least as almost all major forums, dealing with a wide variety of subjects, have their rules regarding what is beneficial and what is destructive. As an example, on a gaming board, several people got banned recently for their destructive comments on a recent fiasco. They were insulting the members of a certain publishing house and advocating a 'rebellion' amongst other things. There was a fiasco and there was quite a lot of justified rage and frustration but there is a limit as to what is accepted in a polite, 'civilised' and beneficial atmosphere. Slinging insults, not respecting other members, constantly trying to antagonise people etc is where almost everyone draws the line, regardless of religion, differing personal views etc.
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Salam
the solution is simply to respect the law of this forum.
Reading some threads, it seems that some persons like the conflicts and want to disrupt the project of etablishing PEACE.
We can to be in disagreement with the ideas of someone but we don't leave emotions to drive our reason because if we do it, we leave shayeteens to win the spirit of the muslim community present on this forum.
It doesn't mean that it's forbidden to make fun between us but in the respect of everybody.
Nobody is superior at another one! We are all students of the truth and we are the same goal but use several roads.Peace
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Slinging insults, not respecting other members, constantly trying to antagonise people etc is where almost everyone draws the line, regardless of religion, differing personal views etc.
Yep, happens so very often. Here's the current slogans thrown at me starting from page 6 of this thread http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6762.75
misguided Christian self
This right here sounds like your typical, misguided Christian argument.
your so-called pagan Christian authorities
athiest Danish
Danish, the corner shop atheist and PhD in Putrifaction thus spoke
your so-called Christian apologetic?s garbage.
Danish (the under cover Christian)
Danish your own unholy bible itself promotes slavery.
Since you are a Christian
As Salaamu Alaykum Danish The Christian
Due to your Jinn nature
Both of you two (Kyle inclusive) need a spanking & sent to your bed room for concealing what you know is TRUTH. The Jinn has his agents and puppets here to water down
Your god ?SHAYTAAN? that you serve and uphold?..(and then slamming verse 1423)
it only augments my position of TRUTH and compounds the fact that you are indeed a kafir?..(and slams a couple of more verses)
Yea, we know who you are kafir?
Remember you Christian
Danish (the christian)
A christian kafir such as yourself
After all the above "merciful" words coming out of a Muslim, here's my part mentioned in the very last post of mine
19'er modern junky. -
Thank you for your contribution Uncle Danish. Action has already been taken against some members, your plight is not ignored.
I would ask everyone though, whenever people get into such situations, to look for the higher moral ground and restrain themselves from adding fuel to the fire, as that would be a clearcut case which would help later on.
Peace
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Peace Danish,
I would respond to the people you have quoted with the following reminder
O you who believe, let not a people ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names. Evil indeed is the reversion to wickedness after attaining faith. And anyone who does not repent, then these are the transgressors.(4911) -
Thanks Nadia and Layth. I'm sure they got the message. I shall accept 4911 on humanitarian grounds. Peace.
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Peace to all,
Ihave to agree with those that think this forum should be cleaned up a bit. I notice how Enquirer says we should all be allowed to say whatever we want on this forum and be anyone should be able to post whereever they want, and then says any ideas cited to help this forum would be used only to limit peoples freedon and create division, however Enquirers very first suggestion about this thread discussing this issue was" what a useless thread, i say to delete it" that sounds hypocritical to me. I came to this forum hoping that it would help me strengthen my faith, I was raised Roman catholic and then converted to Islam, I also happen to believe in only God and the Quran, so you can call me Quranist, God aloner, or whatever , but I wil call myself a Muslim, I believe the Quran is Gods literal word, and I will follow what I think is good in it as God tells us to. All the members on this forum that cant even agree on these few basics shouldnt even be here. This is not being intolerant or creating divisions or limiting freedoms as Enquirer claims, in fact it is people like them that are doing it to our community on this forum. Why should we just let the dogs bark as someone else said, in any civilized society there is consequences for those that let there dogs continually bark and disturb the peace of others, and so should there be here.
Kurt
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Peace
I notice how Enquirer says we should all be allowed to say whatever we want on this forum and be anyone should be able to post whereever they want, and then says any ideas cited to help this forum would be used only to limit peoples freedon and create division, however Enquirers very first suggestion about this thread discussing this issue was" what a useless thread, i say to delete it" that sounds hypocritical to me.
We must say wathever we want if wathever we say respect our interlocutors. It's not always what we can see these last months.
Inch'allah tomorrow will be better group
Peace
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Peace
Enquirers very first suggestion about this thread discussing this issue was" what a useless thread, i say to delete it" that sounds hypocritical to me.
that wasn't Enquirer's but another user.
Sometimes I've thought if I should have 'non muslim nor any other reliigon' or something like that as signature but I never decided it.
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So, in conclusion, I once again would add, I know where you're coming from and hopefully these things will get resolved soon and for the better.
How do you think these things will get resolved?
Peace
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How do you think these things will get resolved?
Peace
Well, if there is an destructive influence around the forum, the rules as they are, deal with them. It won't be as immediate as one would like but with some patience, those influences will get kicked out of the forum for good. Some learn quite quickly when just reminded and some just fade away from posting entirely. The ones that are a pain are the ones that consistently don't learn how, when or what to post and we do need a bit of patience for such types to enforce the rules fairly. Even if we know they are troublemakers, we can't pre-emptively jump the gun on them but go through due process and when the rules are well and properly breached. Some latitude is given in certain circumstances but the eventual end does tend to come about, either by their own choice (voluntarily accepting the rules and going by them or quitting) or by us (banning and the disciplinary process).
As for those that don't believe as you put it and still post, yet do so courteously and sincerely wanting to learn (it can be gauged with emperical evidence of their posting and that is a judgement we all can and most of the times do make regardless of the said/touted beliefs of the poster), I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to post their questions or viewpoints on different boards. If they are interfering inadvertently (without intending to), a polite reminder that it wasn't the point or direction of the thread (maybe another thread should be made for their queries) should be enough for them to take heed. Normally, such types do not interfere with discussions unless they think it's not unwelcome.
I would like to add another note to my paragraph above regarding believers etc. I do think that God is the ultimate judge but some people have an issue that they confuse. This issue is of someone being destructive and causing fasad and being censured for it mixed up with 'we must not judge people as only God judges'. Yes, God will judge what a person's intentions are and where/what he deserves etc etc. That is not to say that we should not judge the merits of a post and make a call based on that, that yes, someone is being destructive regardless of whatever they say their beliefs are. Parallels/analogies can be drawn up on these circumstances but they are besides the point. Everyone should say what they need to say, what they think is the truth with a caveat. It should be done so keeping the rules in mind which do not discriminate between people with differing beliefs as long as they back up their claims and post about them politely and respectfully. So what if someone telling us the earth is hollow and UFO's have their bases there, I still think they're loony but they should tell me so in a nice way and not push it in my face constantly and I will overlook their deficiences, maybe even agree with them that aliens can only be bald ;D
Peace
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As for those that don't believe as you put it and still post, yet do so courteously and sincerely wanting to learn (it can be gauged with emperical evidence of their posting and that is a judgement we all can and most of the times do make regardless of the said/touted beliefs of the poster), I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to post their questions or viewpoints on different boards. If they are interfering inadvertently (without intending to), a polite reminder that it wasn't the point or direction of the thread (maybe another thread should be made for their queries) should be enough for them to take heed. Normally, such types do not interfere with discussions unless they think it's not unwelcome.
I agree.
see http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6933.msg104753#msg104753Peace
