a challenge to quran aloners!!!
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Was Mohammad on the straight path? Is Islam the straight path? I encourage all Muslims to ask him or herself is it really true what they are doing to get to heaven?
What if Muhammad was a false prophet or Islam is false?? How does it prove that Jesus was the son of God??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If Islam is false, I should leave it. But why should I believe that Jesus was the son of God?
??? )
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Salaam,
One thing that always strikes me as odd with these converstion stories is the use of the word "Allah" and "God".
It's pretty clear that Allah is only the arabic word for God... Christian Arabs use the word "Allah".
So when an "apostate" starts using the word "Allah" to reflect on his life as a Muslim, and then the word "God" as they have become something else.... I find it really silly. So much so that I quesiton the credibility of the stories.
I mean if I suddenly became a Jew, I would be saying "Yea, as a Muslim I believed in Allah but now I believe in God". It makes no sense!
salaam
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peace
It's the fakest personal story I've ever read.
BUT, he makes a very very very good point here
I had learned in the Quran that our first parents, Adam and Eve, were living in Paradise until they committed sin. (This is the same in the Bible.) But in the Quran I was told they were forgiven of their sins. I asked my Muslim friends, "If they were forgiven of their sin, then why did God being so merciful and gracious make them leave the garden? Does it mean He did not forgive them?"
He's right. The story doesn't add up. UNLESS we realize that the garden is here on earth in this life.As salamu alaykum wr wb.
Respectfully.They had to leave the garden, yes, that was the punishment, what's the problem here?
Adam and his wife broke one of the rules, they had to be ejected from the Garden. I see it like this The two of them were given Time as a form of forgivness and during this Time they will be able to earn back the garden.We are also given Time and Place in order to earn Heaven.
We have Time, correct? Right.
We have a place, don't we, it's Earth.
Okay, now we are given The Book Of The Rules in order to get back into Paradise.
We are also given chances to make good deeds.As salamu alaykum wr wb.
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peace Alen,
They had to leave the garden, yes, that was the punishment, what's the problem here?
Adam and his wife broke one of the rules, they had to be ejected from the Garden. I see it like this The two of them were given Time as a form of forgivness and during this Time they will be able to earn back the garden.That's not forgiving. That's like if you broke one of your classroom rules, your teacher tells you to get out. Then when you apologize, she says
"OK. I'll give you 5 hours. If you do everything I tell you to do in that time, I'll forgive you and let you in."
What you are saying means that God hasn't forgiven us yet, but we have to earn his forgiveness.
Adam didn't start out on earth (according to what you are saying), he started out in heaven. So if God forgave him, then shouldn't he, and his children (us) be in heaven also? why the hell are we on earth?So if God hasn't forgiven us yet, that takes us back to the Christian idea of Original Sin. That means you agree with the narrator of the story, and thus you should be a christian.
But, the story changes completely if we realize that maybe paradise isn't in the clouds somewhere, but right here on earth.
Adam was born here, just like us. He reached this higher state of BLISS by following the straigh path, just like we can do. But he couldn't control his desires and ended up leaving that state of bliss.
The original sin is following our desires. -
peace Alen,That's not forgiving. That's like if you broke one of your classroom rules, your teacher tells you to get out. Then when you apologize, she says
"OK. I'll give you 5 hours. If you do everything I tell you to do in that time, I'll forgive you and let you in."
What you are saying means that God hasn't forgiven us yet, but we have to earn his forgiveness.
Adam didn't start out on earth (according to what you are saying), he started out in heaven. So if God forgave him, then shouldn't he, and his children (us) be in heaven also? why the hell are we on earth?So if God hasn't forgiven us yet, that takes us back to the Christian idea of Original Sin. That means you agree with the narrator of the story, and thus you should be a christian. )
But, the story changes completely if we realize that maybe paradise isn't in the clouds somewhere, but right here on earth.
Adam was born here, just like us. He reached this higher state of BLISS by following the straigh path, just like we can do. But he couldn't control his desires and ended up leaving that state of bliss.
The original sin is following our desires.As salamu alaykum wr wb.
Respectfully.Then i am mistaken and i will pray for forgivness.
I'm sorry i was wrongly informed.
Thanks for correcting me.As salamu alaykum.
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peace Alen,
Not the answer I was expecting.
What convinced you that you were wrong?As salamu alaykum wr wb.
Respectfully.What answer were you expecting, if i may ask?
I thought that because Adam and his wife made a mistake that they were ejected out of Paradise and were given this Time and Space in order to earn it back, the Garden.Of course, i will be careful how i use my words in the future, but i always say The God Knows BEST.
As salamu alaykum wr wb.
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salaam,
- why does the quran says all the previous scriptures has been corrupted while the quran also says jesus , moses and others followed the same message. he makes some other good points which portrays islam as violent and unscientific, like you would have done the same if you were in his shoes... please read for verification...
peace, rifat
There's a huge difference between "Scriptures" and "Message". Although the message is inside the scripture.
Even 'the previouse scripture' itself claim that it has been corrupted and falsified by the lying pen of the scribes.Jeremia 88
How can you say, We are wise, and we have the law of the Lord ?
Behold, the truth is, the lying pen of the scribes has made the law a falsehood.Moses, Jesus etc follow the message.. which is 'true' segment of the Torah.
Because truth and falsehood is mixed inside the scriptures.Salam / Peace
- why does the quran says all the previous scriptures has been corrupted while the quran also says jesus , moses and others followed the same message. he makes some other good points which portrays islam as violent and unscientific, like you would have done the same if you were in his shoes... please read for verification...
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peace
I thought that because Adam and his wife made a mistake that they were ejected out of Paradise and were given this Time and Space in order to earn it back, the Garden.
Maybe there was a bit of a misunderstanding.
What you said above is true, EXCEPT I believe Adam always had time and space. He wasn't born into paradise, but he earned it by following the straight path (which we can do as well). But he got ejected because he made a mistake. But since God is all forgiving, allowed Adam to reenter paradise.The problem arises, I believe, when we take Adam to be born in paradise. Then it means God hasn't forgiven Adam or us. Which gives credence to the christian idea of original sin.
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Peace Guys,
I suggest that M. Saleem, would take the short time to read "Isa The Bible God's Word" by. Ahmed Deedat. That might change his whole convictions concerning the bible. I see nothing that is being challenged. One thing has nothing to do with the other. Who is Jesus? If a person does not believe, then it will be easy to go in another direction. If that story was even true is something to really look at. It could be something fabricated to get to the ones with weak convictions. That's just my opinion. I use to be Christian. I seen what the people said they received from the holy spirit, talking in tongue, healings, exorcism... all that junk. I always felt weird about that and did not understand why this had to be the method that God chose to show his power. Or why was I not one of those experiencing that "joy and bliss" Now I know better. And if that story was true about what that M.Saleem said then look at what he grew up in maybe that cause him to create his own illusions. Just my opinion. )
Peace, peace
shirley
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peace
Maybe there was a bit of a misunderstanding.
What you said above is true, EXCEPT I believe Adam always had time and space. He wasn't born into paradise, but he earned it by following the straight path (which we can do as well). But he got ejected because he made a mistake. But since God is all forgiving, allowed Adam to reenter paradise.
The problem arises, I believe, when we take Adam to be born in paradise. Then it means God hasn't forgiven Adam or us. Which gives credence to the christian idea of original sin.As salamu alaykum wr wb.
Respectfully.I never say or believe that Adam was born in the Paradise, i know Adam was not born inside Paradise, he was born and then allowed to live there with his wife, where the mistake was made.
As salamu alakyum wr wb.
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He was never a believer. Oh well. I wont be the one who is going to be answering for him.
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Salam.
Her's a challenge i heard that a movie is coming this way and it tlak about following just The Quran.
What do you think will happen, what wil you do, when you see on the big screen around the world that The Quran is to be followed alone and without sunna and hadith and when the writer shows it in such way where he shows The Proof?
I heard if from a friend of my, in Europe.
Peace.
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peace Alen,
...and our challege is to.. predict the future? Fuyo0o~!
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That's not forgiving. That's like if you broke one of your classroom rules, your teacher tells you to get out. Then when you apologize, she says
"OK. I'll give you 5 hours. If you do everything I tell you to do in that time, I'll forgive you and let you in."
What you are saying means that God hasn't forgiven us yet, but we have to earn his forgiveness.Something is not right here.
If one kid broke classroom rule, do you go and punish every generation to come to that school becouse of that???
Why am I being punished for something Adam did thousands of years ago?? Where is the justice here?
Unless Adam and Eve story has some other meaning. -
peace Dion,
You are right that the logic the person was using is flawed. You can't punish the whole class for just one student's wrong doing. But he did make a good point saying that muslims are wrong in believing that God forgave Adam because if he had forgiven Adam, he would've gone back to paradise and not stayed on earth.
So yes, the adam story has some other meaning. But it's far from the traditional interpretation. -
peace Dion,
.... ...because if He had forgiven Adam, he would've gone back to paradise and not stayed on earth.That's not a fact, but an assumption. When the angels asked God why he wants to create mankind, he answered ___
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peace Aimi
how is that an assumption?
It is a fact that God didn't put Adam back in paradise (according to the traditional understanding at least). That's why we are here on earth.
And if God really had forgiven Adam, he would've given back Adam a place in paradise. If you punish a student by sending them out of class, when you forgive them, you usually bring them back in. Not leave them out.