?How does one talk with , God.

unknownuser

Salam,
I just wanted to add a few things and also pose a question about the following two verses

2186Transliteration Wa-itha saalaka AAibadee AAannee fa-innee qareebun ojeebu daAAwata alddaAAi itha daAAani falyastajeeboo lee walyu/minoo bee laAAallahum yarshudoona

4060Transliteration Waqala rabbukumu odAAoonee astajib lakum inna allatheena yastakbiroona AAan AAibadatee sayadkhuloona jahannama dakhireena

Both of these verses use the root word "du'a" (in bold) which (according to Hans Wehr and Lane) translates as
( &#1608

to call (someone), to summon (someone), call or send for someone, to assign someone to something (government), to appeal to sonmeone for something
invite, urge someone, to invite, ask to come
to challenge, move, induce, prompt (someone to do something)
to call someone by a name , to be called, be named
to invoke, wish someone well, bless, invoke a blessing on someone, implore for something for someone
to curse (to invoke God against someone), call down evil, invoke evil
to propagate, propagandize, make propeganda, make publicity
to challenge, pick a qurrel, 9. to proceed judiciously against, prosecute, testify, give evidence in court, bring an accuasation (in court)
to evoke one another (thoughts reminiscences, sentiments)
to be associated with each other (thoughts, ideas)
to be dilapidated, be tumble-down, threaten to fall (walls)
to sink, fall, cave in
to fall down, sink to the ground (person)
to collapse, break down, decline, degenerate (fig. of a cultural phenomenon)
to flock together rally
to allege, claim, maintain
to make undue claims, arrogate, assume unduly or presumptuously
to affect, feign, simulate, pretend, purport
blame, hold something against someone
to call or appoint (someone to a chair for example)

These are the many definitions that are given in the two dictionaries. I think that as time went on the words were used in different ways and the language evolved. But I like to get to the root of the root. So my guess would be that a good english definition to sum up the root would be to "call, or summon." The word "invoke" comes to mind too.

Which brings us to the subject of Oracles or a means to "call, summon or even invoke" God. If you think about it, don't we use the Quran for guidance and is that so different than using other "oracles" such as casting lots or drawing straws In fact one could say that the Quran is an oracle in the sense that we use it to make decisions, get direction, insight and guidance.

So I was looking further at the above verses and I focused on
the next key root word that is being used in this verse is "jubb" (in red).
Here are the definitions as I found them in Hans Wehr and Lane
(plural )

well, cistern; pit
to cut something or cut something off.
extirpating or cutting off of genitals.
To fecundate palmtrees
.
To surpass, or overcome, a people, or compony of men in grounds of pretension to respect or honour, or
in beauty, and in any or every manner.
a whiteness of the legs
rising to the knee and the hock of a horse.
the act of withdrawing from a thing outwardly or inwardly. The act of shrinking or being averse from something.
the act of fleeing
The act of vying, or contending for
superiority, in goodliness, or beauty.
vest or tunic or quilted garmet
coat of mail or defense.
Cutting off of the hump of a camel.
Butter or what is produced by churning camels milk.
the earth in general

and the next word after that in the Lane dictionary is (jubba)
which roughly is defined as to restrain, refrain or forebear.

Is this the word that is most commonly translated as "answer?"

Thoughts on this would be appreciated.
Salam

unknownuser

Salam,
One more thing comes to mind on the subject of oracles or drawing straws and casting lots....
In the Torah/Old Testament in Numbers chapters 16 and 17 Korah took men and gathered themselves against Moses and Aaron because they sought after the priesthood that Aaron and his sons shared (this is the best of my ability to sum up what happened in Numbers 16))...and in Numbers 17 rods were used to show the people that the priesthood belonged to Aaron and his sons. I have posted the english translation of 171 through 178 below.
(KJV translation)
171
And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
172
Speak unto the children of Israel, and take of every one of them a rod according to the house of their fathers, of all their princes according to the house of their fathers twelve rods write thou every man's name upon his rod.
173
And thou shalt write Aaron's name upon the rod of Levi for one rod shall be for the head of the house of their fathers.
174
And thou shalt lay them up in the tabernacle of the congregation before the testimony, where I will meet with you.
175
And it shall come to pass, that the man's rod, whom I shall choose, shall blossom and I will make to cease from me the murmurings of the children of Israel, whereby they murmur against you.
176
And Moses spake unto the children of Israel, and every one of their princes gave him a rod apiece, for each prince one, according to their fathers' houses, even twelve rods and the rod of Aaron was among their rods.
177
And Moses laid up the rods before the LORD in the tabernacle of witness.
178
And it came to pass, that on the morrow Moses went into the tabernacle of witness; and, behold, the rod of Aaron for the house of Levi was budded, and brought forth buds, and bloomed blossoms, and yielded almonds.

Salam

savage_carrot

Peace Arnab,

some thoughts on what you wrote (I'm just going to be touching the things as referenced in the quran as I don't really want to delve in the torah)

Which brings us to the subject of Oracles or a means to "call, summon or even invoke" God. If you think about it, don't we use the Quran for guidance and is that so different than using other "oracles" such as casting lots or drawing straws In fact one could say that the Quran is an oracle in the sense that we use it to make decisions, get direction, insight and guidance.

There might be some negatives and positives to these methods. For example, we have things like a parrot picking cards at random when a person asks for guidance regarding their problems (not kidding, it really does happen in some places), and whether this method is actually something to be followed in order to receive guidance from God. Or we have casting lots, in which case, it's like a draw and a random person gets picked. This is not to say of course that the particular card/person etc picked eventually was not in God's control but whether it is something that should be practised regularly as a form of consultation or communication with God. These are usually classified as divination methods/auguries, which most civilizations used to practice in some form or the other through the times.

The positives can be

It is indeed something used to communicate with God that is looked upon favourably and can be practised regularly without any negative impacts.

To learn if this is so, we can check what the quran says about these forms of divination and what we know of them while contrasting it to the negatives that might come of them.

Negatives

random division or a form of such divination is frowned upon in the quran as posted previously. Now could this be that it would carry into other areas of the divination category?

Who determines during divination what signs are interpretated as what? Would we have a in-between like the oracles of old who were revered as mystic conduits to let us know what's what? Or maybe there is some guide/book that tells us what a particular throw of the dice/cards holds for our future? In which that would become a go-between to God's guidance?

If we do this frequently, would we stop gradually trying to get guidance from other sources and majorly depend on this for our guidance? It seems easy enough to do so, roll a die or pick a card and get an answer, why ponder upon what should be done in a problematic situation? In which case, if it is not what it seems to be, we are kinda stuck with something that is not very trustworthy.

In case of random draws/lots. If one doesn't have to pay anything to get in, there seems to be no problem as such. If one is paying for such random draws, then you have a problem that might exacerbate depending on a person's need to get addicted. I know some people who are quite addicted to buying certain bonds just because they might win a prize (far more money than what the bond is worth) in a random draw. I was quite addicted to bingo ashamed. I don't see it a problem in small controllable amounts, it's when the addiction takes over is when it might be a problem really. Secondly, to determine which person gets saddled with some responsibility by drawing lots for it, looks kinda fishy, if done deliberately. Random people getting lucky or unlucky in life is a bit different I guess. Then again, this situation would have some advantages to it, to avoid an altercation, to actually choose a person for a task with minimum hassle as it would be at random and everyone would be have equal chances to get picked, but is this a form of communication with God?

In the end I suppose it comes down to individuals. Personally, I would prefer a direct method with the least dependence on multiple sources to get guidance from God. If one compares the quran to other books and say it's the same thing and we can get equal guidance from all, it's a personal choice. I would choose the quran for spiritual guidance or moral quandaries to the exclusion of other books as that's my preference, though for other problems, like the best hair colour for my skin type, I'd probably look to clairol.

To add maybe these verses would shed some more light on it

4251 No human being can communicate with GOD except through inspiration, or from behind a barrier, or by sending a messenger through whom He reveals what He wills. He is the Most High, Most Wise.

4252 Thus, we inspired to you a revelation proclaiming our commandments. You had no idea about the scripture, or faith. Yet, we made this a beacon to guide whomever we choose from among our servants. Surely, you guide in a straight path

FJ

Peace all

Savage_Carrot you nailed it! It can't be said or thought any better than you just did!!! bravo

Peace
FJ

unknownuser

Salaams savage,

I see. Can you point me to any articles done that determine the subconscious never makes a mistake? I would like to read up on it. I searched and came up with this amongst others so apparently it's not too well known. Maybe you mean the sunconscious remembers everything which is different from making mistakes? Peace.

No i won't give you any links , because instead of looking for the truth of the matter you chose to look for the opposite to what i am saying - i am not the arguing type.

But before you put info here of other people you aught to have looked at their credentials-for you have cowboys and professional everywhere.

would you go to a witch doctor if your child is sick?
I think you wouldn't, but would go to a professional person with authority/ credentials which you can rely on.

Thats what you aught to do when giving info of other peoples.

Thanks for the nice time however.

God Bless.

savage_carrot

No i won't give you any links , because instead of looking for the truth of the matter you chose to look for the opposite to what i am saying - i am not the arguing type.

??? I was asking some questions for clarification of statements put forward by you. I don't think that is taken as arguing anywhere unless one chooses to see it as such to the exclusion of everything else.

But before you put info here of other people you aught to have looked at their credentials-for you have cowboys and professional everywhere.

would you go to a witch doctor if your child is sick?
I think you wouldn't, but would go to a professional person with authority/ credentials which you can rely on.

Once again huh? You put forward a statement and said everyone knows this. I was requesting clarification because it apparently is not as well known as you might think it to be, thus the link. Further I tried to ask to clarify what you meant by mistakes, is it that the subconscious remembers everything. That is all. No need for voodoo and witch doctors. If you don't want to post any links I understand.

Thats what you aught to do when giving info of other peoples.

I see, thanks for the advice. Let me give you some as well, when making statements that involve the use of 'everyone knows', please post links where we can read such.

Thanks for the nice time however.

You're welcome.

savage_carrot

Peace FJ,

Thanks Basically, I usually throw thoughts out to get a better discussion and to refine my own points of views, incase there are some weaknesses in them and so I can change and/or get to a more informed level. This normally isn't done unless one tests it by discussing.

unknownuser

Salaams savage,

here you are a little info for you

? Mind Power for the Entrepreneur
The subconscious mind is analytical. It creates, computes, plots, plans and NEVER makes a mistake! It is this part of the mind that we use least but rely on most.

http//www.hypnosis-nlp-therapy.com/subconscious.html

http//www.hypnotherapy-lincolnshire.com/BIG-THE-SUBCONSCIOUS-BIG

But look to their credentials.

God Bless you.

savage_carrot

Salaams savage,

here you are a little info for you

Mind Power for the Entrepreneur
The subconscious mind is analytical. It creates, computes, plots, plans and NEVER makes a mistake! It is this part of the mind that we use least but rely on most.

http//www.hypnosis-nlp-therapy.com/subconscious.html

http//www.hypnotherapy-lincolnshire.com/BIG-THE-SUBCONSCIOUS-BIG

But look to their credentials.

God Bless you.

Um, that's the same site I posted from (NLP)? confused

Looking to their credentials, one has more 'tags' than the other but both have received the same training but is that they way you would differentiate from whom to accept information from? That one has more degrees than the next? They have opposing viewpoints but excuse me for not thinking if some hypno-therapists know something, it becomes common knowledge (everyone knows) that is scientific and accurate. Would you believe a guy from Harvard more than you would a guy from the university of Chittagong?

Credentials are not really as important as what a person is saying is it? And just because some people have said something it doesn't become accurate or common knowledge. If we all cared for credentials so much, we might as well become sunni's. Peace.

Elke

Salaam nadia

Maybe you mean the sunconscious remembers everything...

Is that a typo ? Or do we have to start a new thread inviting idolfree and magi...

lk

savage_carrot

Lol, yeah Elke that surely is a typo since b and n on the keyboard are a bit too close for comfort

unknownuser

Hi savage,

Credentials are not really as important as what a person is saying is it? And just because some people have said something it doesn't become accurate or common knowledge. If we all cared for credentials so much, we might as well become sunni's. Peace

I don?t know about anybody else but a label to me doesn?t mean anything but something like having qualifications recognized do mean a lot.

i.e -
Dip Hyp, Dip Psy, ISCH, MGHSC, NLP Practitioner, RMN, RGN, BA (Hons)

These are known as credentials ? I think so.

God Bless.

savage_carrot

These are known as credentials I think so.

Yes. I also think you didn't understand my post. Thanks.

unknownuser

Salaams all,

Just summerising it all.

2559 The One who created the heavens and the Earth and what is between them in six days, then He settled to the throne. The Almighty; SO ASK HIM FOR HE IS EXPERT.
2186
When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them) I LISTEN TO THE PRAYER OF EVERY SUPPLIANT WHEN HE CALLETH ON ME LET THEM ALSO, WITH A WILL, LISTEN TO MY CALL, and believe in Me That they may walk in the right way.
4060
And your Lord says "CALL ON ME; I WILL ANSWER YOUR (Prayer) but those who are too arrogant to serve Me will surely find themselves in Hell - in humiliation!"

So could we ask and get directed by the Almighty.

The ayah's depict a two way communication thingy.
Do you ask and are answered -I think it does.

I think the advancing world tends to associate these things with the persons mind - the conscious mind and the sub-conscious various the quran adheres to you and Allah.

Is it possible to say even the guidance you receive in your mind say the direction of your school the road map is from Allah also? What do you think?

I.e. if you think of your local school say instantly you get the direction as well as the map of where it is in your head.

SUB-CONSCIOUS
It Calculates, Plots and Plans and never makes a mistake.

I think I can?t say where Allah is but we do know where the subconscious is, and may be Allah works via this biological device to influence us in different ways if one deserves enough.

050.016
YUSUFALI It was We Who created man, and We know what dark suggestions his soul makes to him for We are nearer to him than (his) jugular vein.

The subconscious mind is analytical. It creates, computes, plots, plans and NEVER makes a mistake! It is this part of the mind that we use least but rely on most.

http//www.submityourarticle.com/articles/Maya-Jakes-468/mind-power-1824.php

May be when we say/think 2+4=? Answer is from Allah. So All such thoughts we receive may be from Allah and that is why He says to

"CALL ON ME; I WILL ANSWER YOU?

When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close.

So is this how Allah wants us to ask Him and be answered?

009.031
YUSUFALI They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).

As He certainly doesn?t want us following others before Him.

And who doesn?t Allah answer?

003.077
YUSUFALI As for those who sell the faith they owe to Allah and their own plighted word for a small price, they shall have no portion in the Hereafter Nor will Allah (Deign to) speak to them or look at them on the Day of Judgment, nor will He cleans them (of sin) They shall have a grievous penalty.

So who are these people who Allah doesn?t answer I will let you ponder on that-look around the world-please.

Gods Blessings.

By the way I also have a belief that human minds sub-consciously are linked, as I and many other people have seen that you may receive certain thoughts when other people are talking about them.

And sometimes you may have a dream at the time someone is talking about you or something????.strange or what.

I have often experienced this myself.

Salaams.

unknownuser

SUB-CONSCIOUS
It Calculates, Plots and Plans and never makes a mistake.

Salam Simple,
The sub-conscious does make mistakes.
Here is a quote from wikipedia on the subconscious

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subconscious
"The subconscious mind is halfway between the conscious thinking mind and the unconscious mind or collective unconscious.
The thinking mind would be the consciousness and is able to reason and make meaning of things.

The subconscious mind is the recording mechanism that records information based on how it was perceived by the judging thinking mind.

The unconscious mind is a record of things how they innately are without judgement and is thought to be outside of time and space so therefore is a record of everything in the past, present and future.

The subconscious mind takes info from the conscious mind and puts it into the unconscious mind and likewise, the subconscious mind pulls information from the unconscious mind and surfaces through the conscious mind in the form of ideas, inspirations, etc..."

So, if the sub-conscious mind takes info from the conscious mind and we all admit that consciously we make mistakes, then the sub-conscious mind is limited to the abilities of the conscious mind and how it judges and percieves the world and the events in the world. So therefore, the sub-conscious does make mistakes since the conscious mind that it relies on for its information makes mistakes.

I think I can?t say where Allah is but we do know where the subconscious is, and may be Allah works via this biological device to influence us in different ways if one deserves enough.

Actually the subconscious is not biological. If you surgically explore the brain or any other part of the human body for that matter you will never find the conscious or it's mate the "sub-conscious." And no one knows where the conscious or sub-conscious is. It has been the subject of much debate amongst Doctors, Philosophers, Religious Scholars and just about everyone else right down to the average person.

The subconscious mind is analytical. It creates, computes, plots, plans and NEVER makes a mistake! It is this part of the mind that we use least but rely on most.

http//www.submityourarticle.com/articles/Maya-Jakes-468/mind-power-1824.php

I think you may be basing your information on an unreliable source, perhaps you should do more research before drawing conclusions. You may want to ask where this person gets her information, and what sources she has to back up this article. Plus, when I visited this link, I got the impression she was trying to sell me something. And sure enough if you go to the mindpower.com/blogspot at the top of her article she is recommending products. In addition, there are numerous ads that are surrounding these articles written by people who aren't listing their sources. I personally would not count this person as a reliable source for information.

But, aside from all this, to answer your main question God answers us in many different ways.

Salam,
Arnab

khalil

So could we ask and get directed by the AllmightY.

Yes, and I think we all have our different methods for connecting and recieving guidance from God. For me its definitely art, and the message is soothing, it always is "Everything is going to be alright."

peace,
Khalil

unknownuser

So therefore, the sub-conscious does make mistakes since the conscious mind that it relies on for its information makes mistakes.

According to your interpretation my Brother Because there are worms in the fields and as you eat produce from the fields therefor you eat worms aswell.

You could substitute sh-t in place of worms aswell!!!!!!!!!!!

You get my drift?

Your reasoning is absurd-Sorry in this case ,its quite good in other places though.

I think you may be basing your information on an unreliable source, perhaps you should do more research before drawing conclusions. You may want to ask where this person gets her information, and what sources she has to back up this article. Plus, when I visited this link, I got the impression she was trying to sell me something. And sure enough if you go to the mindpower.com/blogspot at the top of her article she is recommending products. In addition, there are numerous ads that are surrounding these articles written by people who aren't listing their sources. I personally would not count this person as a reliable source for information.

I have done a lot of research Br.

More then you could imagine-i think.

But if it doesn't attract you then no harm done, may be your understanding is better then mine.

But my own advice its quite ineresting the sub-cinsciouse and would advice anybody to have a look at it-might click something.

God Bless you.

unknownuser

Yes, and I think we all have our different methods for connecting and recieving guidance from God. For me its definitely art, and the message is soothing, it always is "Everything is going to be alright."

peace,
Khalil

And yes khalil we have our own methods of connecting absolutely-true.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

Wow, I didnt expect this conversation to take off, but I am glad it has.

Arnab, thanks for starting to dig deeper into the verses...I hope you can open the verses enough for me to get inside and have a look. My weakness in Arabic prevebnts me from certain things until it is clarified enough that I can take what I already know and make sense of it.

Regarding the so called subconscious (that concept was created by people who want to take the God out of creation, it is really the Spirit/Nafs), it makes no mistakes because it is based on LAW. It is metaphorized as a garden, because what you put in is what you get out. The only "mistakes" come from our ability to properly cultivate it, and that is our job on earth, to purify the nafs, those who do succeed, those that dont fail.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Savage Carrot,

Thanks for listing the verses, can someone bold and undrline the words that are being translated in all three verses as "divination", so we can all be on the same page.

344 Thalika min anba-i alghaybi nooheehi ilayka wama kunta ladayhim ith yulqoona aqlamahum ayyuhum yakfulu maryama wama kunta ladayhim ith yakhtasimoona

53 Hurrimat AAalaykumu almaytatu waalddamu walahmu alkhinzeeri wama ohilla lighayri Allahi bihi waalmunkhaniqatu waalmawqoothatu waalmutaraddiyatu waalnnateehatu wama akala alssabuAAu illa ma thakkaytum wama thubiha AAala alnnusubi waan tastaqsimoo bial-azlami thalikum fisqun alyawma ya-isa allatheena kafaroo min deenikum fala takhshawhum waikhshawni alyawma akmaltu lakum deenakum waatmamtu AAalaykum niAAmatee waradeetu lakumu al-islama deenan famani idturra fee makhmasatin ghayra mutajanifin li-ithmin fa-inna Allaha ghafoorun raheemun

590 Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo innama alkhamru waalmaysiru waal-ansabu waal-azlamu rijsun min AAamali alshshaytani faijtaniboohu laAAallakum tuflihoona