How Did it Come to This? (Part 1)
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In the same way that your great-grand-father named you, sectarians named their idol after the common noun "kaaba"/base in the great reading. They then hid the true meaning of 595 and 597 behind the meaningless proper name. This is why all sectarian translators don't translate it. They know that the common meaning when translated doesn't fit the object that they idolize. If they translate it then people will see this truth.
Okay, fair enough then, present your proof so that we can all verify and I shall agree, period?
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Aidid interpretation in comparison to other translations, then yes. Just becuase I liked his translation better than others doesn't overide the rule of agreement in its entirety. Did you the first line, btw?
Just trying to understand what was the basis of liking his translations as his translation is poles apart from a traditional translation. If you think the 'traditional sunni historical facts' understanding about the Kaaba et al is correct, then his translation would be one of the worst translations around, I would think or in other words...If the traditional sunni historical sunni facts are thought to be correct, one would think that they would like a traditional translation that keeps that integrity instead of eschewing it. Carry on the discussion please )
Peace
Edit, after user edited their post
Which first line are you referring to?
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Nadeem,
Is it Nadeem or Nadim, as pronounced? Because for what I found that Nadeem means "friend" and Nadim means "drinking companion" coming from the root nadama to mean "to drink".
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Just trying to understand what was the basis of liking his translations as his translation is poles apart from a traditional translation. If you think the 'traditional sunni historical facts' understanding about the Kaaba et al is correct, then his translation would be one of the worst translations around, I would think or in other words...If the traditional sunni historical sunni facts are thought to be correct, one would think that they would like a traditional translation that keeps that integrity instead of eschewing it. Carry on the discussion please )
Peace
Edit, after user edited their post
Which first line are you referring to?
I liked Aidid's translation only because it sounded very natural yet unusual, such as sallaa meaning commitments, zakah meaning pure or purified, kaba meaning ankles pertaining to the paragraph on animal hunting, and the way he explains it away and so forth.
The first line in the link you embedded above, where I'd mentioned his translation to be THE BEST.
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Peace Brother Ayman,
Your're very welcome, and thank you for your efforts and hard work.
Peace brother Danish,
Then I apoligize, it was not my intention.
I'm a bit confused, you wrote Ayman is a proper name unique to you as a HUMAN and is your identity that explains yourself for whatever YOU are.
The name 'Ayman' doesn't explain to me anything about Brother Ayman.
But then you write"Its common form means 'lucky' or 'right' and does not explain you because its a generalized term"
What does a name explain, brother?
For me it's simple a means to single out the person I'm talking to, because I that the person will react to this name. That's a name does for me. Of course, if it's funny, that person might react to some other sounds as well.
Is it Nadeem or Nadim, as pronounced?
As an arabic word, it should be Naadim, but I've been using Nadeem, with a long 'e', I don't know how my great-grand-father pronounced it though. Looking at how it's written, I'd say the long 'e' is correct.
Because for what I found that Nadeem means "friend" and Nadim means "drinking companion" coming from the root nadama to mean "to drink".
Hmm, I never noticed that difference, thanks. I guess 'drinking companion' is an idiom for someone trustworthy, someone you can be with when your drunk with your guard down. That's what I'd like to believe, anyway.
But, Abdul Mannan gives nun-dal-miim the meaning of repentance.
So to not discriminate any of the sources, I'm a drunk repenting friend. -)
All these meanings just goes to show that proper names rather explain more about the person naming you, than yourself.
Nadeem - Perhaps I should use my second name 'Nomi'. (read noo me)
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Nadeem,
Lets look at it from another angle. If there were several persons with the same proper name Nadeem, what would be common among all and what would be different, besides the proper name of course?
edit sorry for this as I'm writing too fast and missing on words, and at the same time reviewing other online stuff.
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Hi Danish,
They'd be drunk. -)
I don't know brother, I don't think one can categorize our differences and similiarities based on our names.
edit sorry for this as I'm writing too fast and missing on words, and at the same time reviewing other online stuff.
That's totally ok. I see you're discussing with multiple people simultaneously, so it's ok if you wait and catch a breath before you respond to me. I ain't going nowhere any time soon -)
Nadeem
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They'd be drunk. -)
You got that right.
I don't know brother, I don't think one can categorize our differences and similiarities based on our names.
Sure we can and we shall get to that. The only thing common among all proper named Nadeems is that they are all humans. Likewise, all different proper names such as Nadeem, Danish, Ayman, Nadia are humans in common as well. Any questions so far?
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Sure we can and we shall get to that. The only thing common among all proper named Nadeems is that they are all humans. Likewise, all different proper names such as Nadeem, Danish, Ayman, Nadia are humans in common as well. Any questions so far?
Each Nadeem is identified or recognized by his own body features, behaviour, habits, intellect, needs, his middle name, surname, and so forth. Hence all Nadeems cannot be exactly alike in that respect. Likewise, the same recognition is applied towards Danish, Ayman, Nadia and Nadeem, hence they cannot be exactly alike either, yet every one of them is a human. Therefore each human is given its own name for recognition. Any questions so far?
Note each time I click quote for reply, only my own previous message displays and not my opponents, as seen above. On pervious posts, I had been copy pasting opponents replies one by one inserting a quote. Can the mod/admin help?
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peace Danish,
The thing is that what you are calling 'historical sunni facts' also contain a lot of crap about miracles performed by Muhammad and how big Muhammad's dick is. Are those facts? if not, then how do you pick and choose?
Also, I don't think Ayman and Aidad Safar are "explaining away" but they are merely explaining.
And the problem with using kaaba as a physical building is that it just doesn't fit with the rest of the quran. And it doesn't go along with it's message.
I think if you would analyze the quran with an open mind you'd see that.
You seem to trust only the sources that agree with you.I think what Ayman is saying is that what we call THE Holy Kaaba, is actually just 'kaaba' in the quran. Now whatever way sunnis use it doesn't matter because it's not used in the quran as a proper noun. Same thing with 'islam' and 'muslim' and 'masjid al haram' and 'masjid al aqsa' and so on. Ayman's "What's in a name" article explains this.
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Hello phoenix1,
The thing is that what you are calling 'historical sunni facts' also contain a lot of crap about miracles performed by Muhammad and how big Muhammad's dick is. Are those facts? if not, then how do you pick and choose?
Acutally it was Ayman thumping his drums upon sunnies, that's why I mentioned 'historical sunni facts' towards his disclaimers. If you've read all my posts, I've been mentioning 'historical facts' and given several others. I'm sure Nabataen, Semetic, English dictionaries and encyclopedias and non-religious sites are not sunnies. But you and Ayman can claim them too by trail and error until they FIT. Muhammad's or for that matter Santa Claus's phalluses is not the issue here. One is dead, the other is a gimmy and the Kaba is still alive.
Also, I don't think Ayman and Aidad Safar are "explaining away" but they are merely explaining.
"Explaining away" without facts is the terminology. "merely explaining" doesn't FIT.
And the problem with using kaaba as a physical building is that it just doesn't fit with the rest of the quran. And it doesn't go along with it's message.
I think if you would analyze the quran with an open mind you'd see that.
You seem to trust only the sources that agree with you.Yep, if it doesn't FIT, then let it SIT in a PIT to SH*T. )
I think what Ayman is saying is that what we call THE Holy Kaaba, is actually just 'kaaba' in the quran. Now whatever way sunnis use it doesn't matter because it's not used in the quran as a proper noun. Same thing with 'islam' and 'muslim' and 'masjid al haram' and 'masjid al aqsa' and so on. Ayman's "What's in a name" article explains this.
Kaba FITS perfectly well, quranically, pre-quranically and post-quranically as far as Islam is conerned. If it doesn't FIT, then it becomes Mislam (missing in action).
I shall await Ayman's substantial proofs, both pre-quranic and post-quranic as requested, not hocus pocus FITTING ones, on two conditions
- inscription of the word "jinn" on jinn blocks, and
- the word Kaba never means a cuboid structure.
Until then, Allah Hafiz.
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Peace all,
I think that people need to focus the discussions about Kaaba on what is of primary importance as far as proving or disproving sectarian claims.
Let there be no mistake, the primary source of legitimacy of the sectarians' stone block is that they guarantee that The God endorsed such pagan structure in 595 and 597. Now let's focus on the fact that everyone here (including Danish) agree on
The word "kaaba/kaab" means "base" NOT "cube"
The above is complete and sufficient proof to destroy the sectrians' guarantee that The God endorses their revered stone block. Without this, all other points would be irrelevant. How many sectarians would travel and spend thousands of dollars to spin around a stone structure if they were informed that it is not true that The God endorses their revered stone block? Not many.
As I said, this is all the proof that matters and is complete and sufficient by itself. Now add to the above the following facts that everyone also agrees on
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The word "kaaba" is not mentioned in any pre-quranic or "post-quranic" inscriptions or manuscripts in relation to the stone blocks. Those stone blocks are always associated in inscriptions and manuscripts with idols such as Allat, Manat, and Al3uzza (which we are told are "jinn" in the great reading (and of course its manuscripts) - see Chapter 53 and 3440-41).
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We KNOW for a FACT that sectarians were in the habit of borrowing common nouns in the great reading and turning them into proper names of structures that they themselves built in post-quranic times. For example, we KNOW for sure that the so-called Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa was built in post-quranic times and no such structure existed prior or during the time when the great reading was descended. Even the staunchest sectarian is forced to acknowledge this fact.
After this there should be absolutely no doubt that sectarian and atheist Sunni claims that The God endorses their pagan structure are bogus.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace all,
The word "kaaba/kaab" means "base" NOT "cube"
The above is complete and sufficient proof to destroy the sectarians' guarantee that The God endorses their revered stone block. Without this, all other points would be irrelevant. How many sectarians would travel and spend thousands of dollars to spin around a stone structure if they were informed that it is not true that The God endorses their revered stone block? Not many.
Peace,
Ayman
Salaam All,
I believe there is some confusion in Ayman's mind. Does it make any difference that Kaaba means cube and/or base.
Kaaba or Caaba (both k?'b or k?'bə , the central, cubic, stone structure, covered by a black cloth, within the Great Mosque in Mecca, Saudi Arabia. The sacred nature of the site predates Islam tradition says that the Kaaba was built by Adam and rebuilt by Abraham and the descendants of Noah. Also known as the House of God, it is the center of the circumambulations performed during the hajj, and it is toward the Kaaba that Muslims face in their prayers (see liturgy, Islamic). Pre-Islamic Meccans used it as a central shrine housing their many idols, most notable of which were al-lat, al-uzza, and manat, collectively known as al-gharaniq or the daughters of god, and hubal, a martial deity. The Black Stone, possibly of meteoric origin, is located at one of its outside corners. Also dating from pre-Islamic times as a heavenly relic, this stone is venerated and ritually kissed. Worn hollow by the centuries of veneration, the stone is held together by a wide silver band. The actual structure of the Kaaba has been demolished and rebuilt several times in the course of its history. Around the Kaaba is a restricted area, haram, extending in some directions as far as 12 mi, into which only Muslims may enter.
Behold! Safa and Marwa are among the Symbols of Allah. So if those who visit the House in the Season or at other times, should compass them round, it is no sin in them. If anyone obeys his own impulse to do good deeds, be sure God is Grateful, the all Knowing.
The below literal and Free-Minds translation for the same above quoted verse are both from this site http//yaqb.org/
Check out the massive difference between the literal of the verse and the translation by Free-Minds
Literal That the Saffa/rock and the Marwa/flint stones (are) from God's methods/ways of worship, so who performed pilgrimage (to) the House/Home , or headed to/visited so no offense/guilt/sin on him that (he) circles/walks around by them, and who volunteered good , so that God (is) thankful/grateful, knowledgeable.
Free-Minds The camel and goat heavy with milk are amongst God's decrees. So whosoever makes Pilgrimage to the sanctuary, or is merely passing through, commits no error that he should partake of them. And whoever donates for goodness, then God is Appreciative, Knowledgeable.
Cooking and spinning, milk, camel and goat turning and turning into rock and stones, cooking and spinning into milk, camel and goat. As we are noting but MILK for CAMELS and GOATS, full of ROCK and STONES! Baa! Baa!
Baa, baa, black sheep, Have you any wool? Yes sir, yes sir, Three bags full. One for the MILK, One for the ROCK, And one for the little boy, who is full of STONES ...
Mohamed
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Peace Ayman,
I think what Danish is saying is that although kaaba doesn't mean cube, it could still be a proper name of a structure. Just like Nadeem's not really a drunk. So can you give us proof that kaaba is in fact a common noun, not a name?Peace Yar,
Yes, can you give us proof that nadeem is in fact a common noun, meaning drunk, and not a name of Nadeem!
As there are more people in the world who are drunk (nadeem) than people who are named Nadeem!
Mohamed