Which Cristians are Hell bound?
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Salam simple,
they are people of the book...right?What book? The Bible is the the scriptures mentioned in the Quran. It is impossible. The Bible we have today is not the words of Jesus back in the day. So it is evident that they are not people of the book, it doesn't matter what they claim.
Plus, dont worry about whose going to hell or heaven, let Allah deal with that. He judges in the best way with absolute truth and fairness.
Personally, I dont try to see whose going to hell or not, it gets me away from commemorating Allah and remembering Him.Allah will chastise him with the greatest chastisement.
Surely to Us is their turning back,
Then surely upon Us is the taking of their account.But leave them in their confused ignorance for a time.
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Salam simple,
they are people of the book...right?What book? The Bible is the the scriptures mentioned in the Quran. It is impossible. The Bible we have today is not the words of Jesus back in the day. So it is evident that they are not people of the book, it doesn't matter what they claim.
Plus, dont worry about whose going to hell or heaven, let Allah deal with that. He judges in the best way with absolute truth and fairness.
Personally, I dont try to see whose going to hell or not, it gets me away from commemorating Allah and remembering Him.Allah will chastise him with the greatest chastisement.
Surely to Us is their turning back,
Then surely upon Us is the taking of their account.But leave them in their confused ignorance for a time.
Salaams Br,
They are the people whose history is spread throughout the Quran.
And in their books aswell.
Kitaab means a number of things , Record,Recorder,Letter,Decree,Knowledge E.T.C
So you could say each time a prophet came the previous Record was passed on to Him by the Almighty simerlarly to our prophet.So the Record carried expanding - but some of them got corrupted aswell and the Quran was sent to correct this.
Wama anzalna AAalayka alkitabailla litubayyina lahumu allathee ikhtalafoo feehiwahudan warahmatan liqawmin yu/minoona
And We sent down the Book to thee for the express purpose, that thou shouldst make clear to them those things in which they differ, and that it should be a guide and a mercy to those who believe.The biggest corruption is calling Isa The Son of God.
Salaams Br.
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Salam brother,
I think you misunderstood my reply, moreover I think I did a bad job explaining my reply.
What I meant to do was answer your "Which Christians are Hell bound?" It doesn't matter who is hell bound or not. Its up to Allah. If we say that "these kinds of people are going to hell", sure, we may be right. But! Ultimatly it relys upon Allah.
O men! eat the lawful and good things out of what is in the earth, and do not follow the footsteps of the Shaitan; surely he is your open enemy.
He only enjoins you evil and indecency, and that you may speak against Allah what you do not know.Shaytan wants us to "speak against Allah what you do not know". So if we say, "He's going to hell", we might be competly wrong, or completly right, eitherway we dont know for sure. So we are speaking against Allah of what we do not know.
True, Allah does tell us what kinds of people are going to hell and heaven, but again, He forgives as He pleases, so He may or may not forgive them. Again, this all relys on Allah and its not up to us to determine or guess who's going to hell or heaven.
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Peace to al,
Brother Reza, I just wanted to say that I really like your posts, you are a breath of fresh air here on this forum, hope to hear more from you.
Kurt
I would say thanks, but I think this sounds more appropriate All praise and thanks be to Allah.
InshaAllah I will be around for a while and inshaAllah He will guide me aright. Everything relys on Him.
Allahu Akbar. )
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Salaams Br.Reza,
True, Allah does tell us what kinds of people are going to hell and heaven, but again, He forgives as He pleases, so He may or may not forgive them. Again, this all relys on Allah and its not up to us to determine or guess who's going to hell or heaven.
I do partly agree with what you have said , i suppose Allah has told us not to be polytheists as that is a path to Hell and He is telling them as well.
But my main reason for this topic wasn't as much to tell people they are going to Hell or not but simply to clarify the translation of the ayah as i havn't seen any other ayah where it specifically states this.
But of course we hope no one becomes deserving of Hell accept shaitan and His followers.
Thanks for your posts though as you said- We shouldn't finger point at anybody i think that is forbidden.
God Bless all.
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Wa Salam simple,
Sorry for misunderstanding your main statement brother. May Allah have mercy, if He wills. -
Salaams Br,
just one quistion, what would you call someone who is obeying God almighty-but out of ignorance or misunderstanding calls a dead person The God?
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A Christian
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Using QD.
Inna allatheena kafaroo min ahli alkitabiwaalmushrikeena fee nari jahannama khalideenafeeha ola-ika hum sharru albariyyati
Those who reject, among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures.
Freeminds Those who rejected from the people of the Scripture and those who set up partners are in the fires of Hell abiding therein, those are the worst of creation.
Shouldn?t this have been
Those who reject, among the people of the Book whilst polytheistic, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein??
Salam Simple,
I?d like to address your original post.
Good point, that "wa" while usually translated accurately as "and" can sometimes mean "2. with" and "3. while," although "while" is a third definition being used less frequently than either "and" or "with."
I would say that my personal thoughts are that "and" is probably the correct rendering for the following reason
986 (Freeminds) Those who rejected from the people of the Scripture (Group A) and those who set up partners (Group B) are in the fires of Hell abiding therein, those are the worst of creation.
(Group A)
There are those who are ?concealers / rejecters? from the people of the scripture who have been given clear proofs, have not corrected themselves and are rejecting God?s laws even though they know better.Sometimes the rejecters of scripture do set up partners with God but not always.
If we translate ?wa? as ?while? the people who are ?concealers / rejecters? are fine as long as they don?t set up partners and we know from other verses that this isn?t true (Quran 968, 949, and 178 just to name a few)(Group B)
Those who set up partners can include people never given scripture at all. So they wouldn?t fall into the category of being given scripture (ie Group A) however their mistake was setting up partners.
We know from other verses that those who set up partners are in danger whether they are people of the scripture or not (Quran 486 and 9113)If the translation of ?wa? is ?while? then we would have to believe that people of the book can reject as long as they are not polytheistic. And rejecting God?s laws is not acceptable. That?s why I think that ?while? wouldn?t work in this case.
According to the following the Christians are eligible for heaven as well.
Inna allatheena amanoo waallatheenahadoo waalnnasara waalssabi-eenaman amana biAllahi waalyawmi al-akhiriwaAAamila salihan falahum ajruhum AAinda rabbihimwala khawfun AAalayhim wala hum yahzanoona
Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
Here is the closest I can translate the above verse using Hans Wehr and Lane Dictionaries
That those who have faith and those who are
calm / tranquil ( Hans Wehr 1197 lane Vol 8 pg 137)
and the helpers / aides / assisters ( Hans Wehr page 1138 Lane Vol 8 pgs 56-57)
and those who turn away gifts ( this definition I am not so sure of the reference is Lane Vol 4 page 373)
from the faithful in God and the last day and work good/righteous/proper
their dent / notch ( Hans Wehr 849 Lane Vol 6 pgs 217-219)
their reward near / by / with their Lord and upon them no fear / dread / fright and they won?t grieveI think sometimes translators translate words as ?Christian,? or ?Jew,? when these are not the main definitions of the words in classical Arabic. As far as I can tell the meanings of these Arabic words being defined as ?Christian,? or ?Jew,? evolved to have these meanings and may not be the original intention. Sometimes these labels that we are used to in English are secondary third or fourth meanings of the word and not consistent with the original Arabic definition.
An example of the use of ?WA?
Alif-lam-ra tilka ayatualkitabi waqur-anin mubeenin
A. L. R. These are the Ayats of Revelation,- of a Qur'an that makes things clear.
God Bless.
I would say that ?wa? means ?and? here as well.
Here is the closest I can translate the above verse using Hans Wehr and Lane DictionariesAlif-Lam-Ra is the subject of much debate and probably better left for another thread as to how to translate or interpret this meaning so I will leave it in Arabic for now.
These signs / tokens/ marks/ miracles / wonders the writing / record / book
and connection / link / union / joined ( QURAN = CONNECTION / LINK etc Hans Wehr 889-890 Lane Vol 8 pgs 241-242)
clarity / evident .perhaps I should limit each word to one translation per word to make it clear
"These miracles, the writing, and connection are evident."
Note that the classical Arabic meaning of Quran is roughly translated as Connection.
Please feel free to comment or correct any of my translations, I'm still learning and will appreciate the feedback. Thank you.
Salam
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I think the whole message is very simple
What is true Islam? Monotheism. Belief in One God, and not setting up any partners with Him.
The message came down to Moses's people with the Torah. Monotheism. But the Jews now say that God is uncapable of doing certain things (ally out of weakness). God sent another message through Jesus. Monotheism. But the Christians started saying that Jesus is the son of God. Then, again, the message came down through Muhammad. Monotheism. And now traditional Muslims revere Muhammad.
So what is Islam? It's monotheism. No matter if you're Jew, Christian, Muslim, or whatever, if you believe in one God, you're saved. But even if you are a Jew, Christian, Muslim, etc, and you set up partners with Him, then you're commiting the one unforgivable sin.
Aren't those ayats clear now?
(edit=him->Him)