The Quran Does Not Say How Many Rak'ahs There Are For Each Salah

TheNabi

Peace

So Joe, why on earth is it that every single of Muslim since the time of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him has prayed a certain number of raka'hs for each prayer?

Not sure. That would be a question better suited for someone who understands why.

Are you telling me that each and every single one of them came together and made this thing up?

I'm just saying, God does not say to do an ordered number of rak'ahs in the quran. Do you disagree with me here? If so why?

No, no. The Messenger came to teach us the Quran (3164) and when the Quran says that we should pray, the Messenger would teach it to us.

One teaches what one understands, or thinks they understand. You say the quran tells you to pray, but show me where it says there are to be an ordered number of rak'ahs.

Joe

phoenix1

So Joe, why on earth is it that every single of Muslim since the time of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him has prayed a certain number of raka'hs for each prayer? Are you telling me that each and every single one of them came together and made this thing up? No, no. The Messenger came to teach us the Quran (3164) and when the Quran says that we should pray, the Messenger would teach it to us.

peace

How do you know that everyone since the time of the prophet has been performing this ritual?
Christian priests will lead you to believe that everyone since Jesus has been following the Bible. Does that make it true?
No it doesn't.

Tay

Peace Unknown, and welcome,

The qur'an states that it is complete, perfected, and contains the explanations for everything. It's pretty clear, no?

6114 "Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you this Scripture fully detailed?"...

Peace,
Tay

Unknown

No Christian priests dont have us believe it. Its known when someone reads the letters of Paul or studies history, different groups arose in the early Church.

But the same cannot be said regarding the Muslims and their method of prayer.

The issue of the matter is that I am planning in the near future inshallah to go out public and start debating "Quran Onlys" such as yourselves. But before I do, i want to make sure about all your possible answers to my arguments. If these are the kind of quality arguments that i am to expect then i definately have nothing to worry about inshallah.

This is not intended to offend anyone.

Is there anyone out there with better answers?

Tay

Peace Unknown,

Doesn't this go against the concept of EVERYTHING being detailed in the Quran for us?

Yes, it does. So whom do you put your faith in God, or "scholars"?

Peace,
Tay

Unknown

Yes Tay, and the Quran clearly tells us that one of the duties of the Messenger is to teach it to us and that we should refer to him if we differe amongst our selves.

Tay

Peace Unknown,

the Quran clearly tells us that one of the duties of the Messenger is to teach it to us and that we should refer to him if we differe amongst our selves.

Well then you have yourself a contradiction. Can a human explain better than God? Is God not capable of teaching us in ways we can understand?

599 The messenger is only to deliver. And God knows what you reveal and what you conceal.

And what is the messenger to deliver? The message.
And what is the message? The Qur'an.
And it's been delivered.

Peace,
Tay

unknownuser

Peace all,

According to the Qur'aan there are 2 units per salat

And if you are with them and you uphold the salat for them, then 1. let a group from amongst them stand with you and let them bring their weapons; and when they have prostrated then let them stand guard from behind; 2. and let a group who has not yet performed salat come and perform salat with you?

As can be clearly seen in the above verse is that the Prophet performed 2 units of salat. The men, because of the war only performed one unit as given in verse 4101.

4 101. And if you are on the offensive in the land, then there is no harm that you shorten from the salat, if you fear that the rejecters will try you. The rejecters are to you a clear enemy.

So in the normal situation it is always 2 units. Whether it be in congregation or individual salat, and this is the same for all times. There is no prostration-kneeling-prostration mentioned in these verses. Only one prostration per unit, nothing more. You prostrate and stand up immediately. Of course there is no harm at all if a person desires to perform more units then 2 units in individual salat, as the salat is for the remembrance of The God.

?I am God, there is no god but Me, so serve Me and perform the salat for My remembrance.?

Let us dissect 4102 in detail

Taking their arms is emphasized here to confirm that the condition for shortening a salat IS fear of the unbelievers attack.

First of all let?s allow ourselves a basic conclusion. Anyone with an average level of reasoning would accept that there is a DETAILING in this verse no matter how different people understand it. Then, we ask ourselves ?Why do some people claim that this matter (and every other one) is NOT DETAILED in the Quran? Personally I can see only one reason for that TO JUSTIFY SOME OTHER DETAILING FROM OTHER BOOKS BESIDE GOD?S.

Now, let?s go back to God?s plain verse 4102. Let?s go step by step, patiently.

When you are with them, and stand to lead THEM in salat <fa aqamta lahumus salata>.

Here God clearly states that the messenger is establishing the complete salat <FAQMTA LHUMUS SALATA> and THEM here stands for both parties that are mentioned later in the same verse. So, the messenger, in this verse is to establish a complete salat with both parties (a unit with each of them)

Let one party of them stand up (in salat) with you, taking their arms with them. When they have prostrated <iza sajadoo>, let them take their position in the rear.

We can see that God uses the verb sajad (to prostrate) for the first party and not sala (to pray)! Why? The answer is in the verb used for the other group!

?And let the other party come up which HATH NOT YET PERFORMED SALAT <lam yusaloo> and let them perform salat with thee <fal yusaloo ma'k>.

Here comes the clarification for the use of sajadoo (have prostrated) for the first group and lam yusaloo (have not performed salat) for the other group.

When God says that the other group HAVE NOT PERFORMED SALAT YET <lam yusaloo> that, with no doubt, means THE FIRST GROUP HAD PERFORMED SALAT before them. But to make it clear for us, IN HIS BOOK, how many units are there, He uses sajadoo for the first group and lam yusaloo for the other group. In other words, the shortening of a salat in the case of fear is ONE UNIT. A complete salat has TWO UNITS and that is why the verb <AQAMTA> (a verb used throughout the Quran for the complete prayer) is in the singular and refers only to the messenger. So, the messenger, leading both groups (THEM, each group with one sujud) in the shortened salat, is himself doing a complete salat of two units (in the verse).

Some would ask (some really do) ?Why do we take <iza sajadoo> to mean one sujud or prostration?

There is one thing that is really interesting. TRADITIONALLY, the phrase iza sajadoo is translated as WHEN THEY FINISH PROSTRATIONS. So, we have prostration is in the plural which is the intention of this translation. But God, in this verse, does not use a noun (prostration), not in the singular nor in the plural. What God uses here is a VERB in the present perfect <fa iza sajadoo> WHEN THEY HAVE PROSTRATED.

Some people go further and ask ?How many times to prostrate?? The verb clearly indicates ONCE. It says WHEN THEY HAVE PROSTRATED, LET THEM TAKE THE REAR.

Check these Quranic verses where we have a similar situation. In 4103 God says ?When ye have performed your salat..? <fi iza qadaytumus salata> we have the same situation, a verb in the present perfect. What do you think, how many times have we performed the salat?

?So, when ye have accomplished your rites <fa iza qadautum manasikakum>, celebrate the praises of God?? 2200. How many times to accomplish the rites? The question would be here.

There are a lot of examples where it is quite clear how many times the action, that the verb refers to, happens.

Now let us see the next verse, which provide a good confirmation for few things we have already mentioned.

?When ye have performed the salat, remember God, standing, sitting, or lying down on your sides; BUT WHEN YE ARE FREE FROM DANGER, uphold the complete salat <FA AQIMUS SALATA>?.

In other words when there is no danger any longer, then establish or perform your salat completely and do not shorten it for there is no reason for that.

Two confirmations we can see here are.

The condition for shortening a salat is FEAR FROM THE UNBELIEVERS?ATTACK.
The verb <AQIMS SALATA> is used to mean a complete salat.

Check the using of <AQAMTA LAHUM> and <IZA SAJADOO> and <LAM YUSALOO> in 4;102 and <FA AQIMUS SALATA> in 4103, and it will, GW, be clear how many units are there.

Peace

TheNabi

Peace UnKnown

In my opinion everything that is detailed in the quran is all that is required of God's system layed out in it's pages. Therefore, if you cannot find that God says you have to do a thing, but in your tradition you have to do it, then clearly that part of your tradition has no part in God's system. When the quran offers no instruction of these units of rak'ah that means it is not part of the system. It may be a component of your tradition which is why you will probably not find it in the quran. This book, in my opinion, only gives it's detailed instructions.

Joe

unknownuser

Peace all,

According to the Qur'aan there are 2 units per salat

And if you are with them and you uphold the salat for them, then 1. let a group from amongst them stand with you and let them bring their weapons; and when they have prostrated then let them stand guard from behind; 2. and let a group who has not yet performed salat come and perform salat with you?

As can be clearly seen in the above verse is that the Prophet performed 2 units of salat. The men, because of the war only performed one unit as given in verse 4101.

4 101. And if you are on the offensive in the land, then there is no harm that you shorten from the salat, if you fear that the rejecters will try you. The rejecters are to you a clear enemy.

So in the normal situation it is always 2 units. Whether it be in congregation or individual salat, and this is the same for all times. There is no prostration-kneeling-prostration mentioned in these verses. Only one prostration per unit, nothing more. You prostrate and stand up immediately. Of course there is no harm at all if a person desires to perform more units then 2 units in individual salat, as the salat is for the remembrance of The God.

?I am God, there is no god but Me, so serve Me and perform the salat for My remembrance.?

Let us dissect 4102 in detail

Taking their arms is emphasized here to confirm that the condition for shortening a salat IS fear of the unbelievers attack.

First of all let?s allow ourselves a basic conclusion. Anyone with an average level of reasoning would accept that there is a DETAILING in this verse no matter how different people understand it. Then, we ask ourselves ?Why do some people claim that this matter (and every other one) is NOT DETAILED in the Quran? Personally I can see only one reason for that TO JUSTIFY SOME OTHER DETAILING FROM OTHER BOOKS BESIDE GOD?S.

Now, let?s go back to God?s plain verse 4102. Let?s go step by step, patiently.

When you are with them, and stand to lead THEM in salat <fa aqamta lahumus salata>.

Here God clearly states that the messenger is establishing the complete salat <FAQMTA LHUMUS SALATA> and THEM here stands for both parties that are mentioned later in the same verse. So, the messenger, in this verse is to establish a complete salat with both parties (a unit with each of them)

Let one party of them stand up (in salat) with you, taking their arms with them. When they have prostrated <iza sajadoo>, let them take their position in the rear.

We can see that God uses the verb sajad (to prostrate) for the first party and not sala (to pray)! Why? The answer is in the verb used for the other group!

?And let the other party come up which HATH NOT YET PERFORMED SALAT <lam yusaloo> and let them perform salat with thee <fal yusaloo ma'k>.