5 Prayers From Quran (in fever /against)
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Salam,
Are you related to Ahmed?
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As Salaamu Alaykum Naxus
Your translation of 1778 is correct and below are three links that addresses 1778/20130 and more
http//www.freewebs.com/suprememathematics/grabbingforstraws.htm
http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/wakaszeehlatifdebate.htm
http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/3salaattheoryexposed.htm
I just want to provide you with encouragement to say that you can arrive to the correct understanding pertaining to how many times we are suppose to do Salaat even if you do not have sound Arabic knowledge because this subject matter is so simple and clear it does not really call for that. But its easy to get caught up in a bunch of confusion even when dealing with people who claims to know Arabic, so be aware...
Salaam
Peace to bro wakas n bros n sis of free minds dear bro wakas i have ckeck the translation of 1778 n i think u r right Arabic is not my mother toungue so i depends on the translation mainly but any way i will wana know wuts u,r view n explanation on 20130 n 1778 this invitation is not just 4 bro wakas its 4 every one so we can increase our knowledge on the subject of salat thank u 4 reading Peace
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Fajre Prayer
Therefore, be patient in the face of their
utterances, and praise and glorify your Lord before sunrise
and before sunset. And during the night glorify Him, as
well as at both ends of the day, that you may be happy.It says here to praise and glorify your Lord before sunrise and before sunset. But does it say pray to your Lord? The questions is does praise and glorify equals pray? It says only glorify during night, not also praise ...?
You shall steadfastly persevere in carrying out
your Lord's command - you are in our eyes - and glorify and
praise your Lord when you get up.It says here glorify and praise your Lord when you get up. Does that mean to pray, i mean, does glorify and praise equal pray?
Also during the night glorify Him, and at dawn as
the stars fade away.See, here we are told to glorify Him during night, not during prayer, does that mean, glorify Him during night, any time, or during prayer? Then it says and at dawn, that must be the fajr prayer and then says as the stars fade away. Now, does this mean one time - and at dawn as the stars fade away - or does it mean two times - at dawn, being one time and as the stars fade away, being second time?
It seems more logical that it means one time, right? I think we are informed what dawn means, it means it is the time when the stars are fading.God knows best.
You shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) at
both ends of the day, and during the night. The righteous
works wipe out the evil works. This is a reminder for those
who would take heed.This is clearer to me observe the contact prayers. If The God wanted to tell me to glorify Him at both ends of the day, He would've told me, right? If He wanted to tell me to just do the prostration that time, He would've told me, right? If He wanted to tell me to read Quran for 25 minutes at both ends of the day and during the night, He would've told me, right?
The God does what He wants to do.
Therefore, be patient in the face of their
utterances, and praise and glorify your Lord before
sunrise, and before sunset.See, again, it says here and praise and glorify your lord and tells us also when - before sunrise and before the sunset. It tells us what to do and when to do.
Therefore, you shall glorify GOD when you retire at
night, and when you rise in the morning.Here, also, it says to glorify GOD when you retire at night and when you rise in the morning. To glorify - is that the same as to pray or praise?
O you who believe, permission must be requested by
your servants and the children who have not attained
puberty (before entering your rooms). This is to be done in
three instances - before the Dawn Prayer, at noon when you
change your clothes to rest, and after the Night Prayer.
These are three private times for you. At other times, it
is not wrong for you or them to mingle with one another.
GOD thus clarifies the revelations for you. GOD is
Omniscient, Most Wise.There is apparently The Dawn Prayer and also The Night Prayer. It says the noon when we change clothes to rest, .... this buggs me. Is this a prayer? I mean, it doesn't talk about prayer, it talks about changing the clothes at noon, probably from the sweat, i assume must be pretty hot in the desert. But it is clear about the two prayers - Dawn and Night Prayers.
Zuhr Salat
You shall observe the Contact Prayer (Salat) when
the sun declines from its highest point at noon, as it
moves towards sunset. You shall also observe (the
recitation of) the Quran at dawn. (Reciting) the Quran at
dawn is witnessed.Okay, The Zuhr Salat it is clear FIRST; it says to observe the salat and tells us the time, THEN; it tells us to observe the Quran and tells us when. There's a difference, correct?
All praise is due to Him in the heavens and the
earth, throughout the evening, as well as in the middle of
your day.This talks about praise and how it is done throughout the evening as well as in the middle of the day. Not prayer, praise is done throughout the day.
Asar Salat
You shall consistently observe the Contact Prayers,
especially the middle prayer, and devote yourselves totally
to GOD.This one still bugs me. Why is the Middle Prayer made special?
Therefore, be patient in the face of their
utterances, and praise and glorify your Lord before sunrise
and before sunset. And during the night glorify Him, as
well as at both ends of the day, that you may be happy.It says to praise and glorify your Lord and tells us when - before the sunrise, before the sunset and when it talks about night, it just says glorify Him. Also, glorify Him at both ends of the day. So, glorification is before sunrise, before sunet, during the night and at both ends of the day. Gklorification is then all the time, correct. But does glorification equal praying or a prayer?
That's what i'd like to know.All praise is due to Him in the heavens and the
earth, throughout the evening, as well as in the middle of
your day.Praise is also done in the heavens, on earth, throughout the evening and also in the middle of the day. Praise, not praying.
Therefore, be patient in the face of their
utterances, and praise and glorify your Lord before
sunrise, and before sunset.See, praise and glorify the Lord before sunrise and before sunset. Praise and glorify, i'm not reading, pray to Him at these time or be inside of a prayer. Or am i missing something here?
MAGHRAB Salat
You shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) at
both ends of the day, and during the night. The righteous
works wipe out the evil works. This is a reminder for those
who would take heed.Now this is clear! Observe the Contact Prayers, both ends of the day, meaning, Dawn and Evening, right? Then also at night.
Therefore, be patient in the face of their
utterances, and praise and glorify your Lord before sunrise
and before sunset. And during the night glorify Him, as
well as at both ends of the day, that you may be happy.Again, we have to praise and glorify The God before sunrise - Dawn, and also before sunset - evening, correct? Also during the night, right?
Therefore, be patient in the face of their
utterances, and praise and glorify your Lord before
sunrise, and before sunset.This is understandable to me. I will do as i am told here i will praise and glorify my Lord before the sunrise and before the sunset.
ISHA Salat
Also during the night glorify Him, and at dawn as
the stars fade away.This is also clear.
And commemorate the name of your Lord day and
night.Now The God uses different word - commemorate. Sometimes it's glorfy, then praise, then observe the contact prayers, now it is commemorate.
During the night, fall prostrate before Him, and
glorify Him many a long night.This is clear.
Therefore, be patient in the face of their
utterances, and praise and glorify your Lord before sunrise
and before sunset. And during the night glorify Him, as
well as at both ends of the day, that you may be happy.This is clear.
You shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) at
both ends of the day, and during the night. The righteous
works wipe out the evil works. This is a reminder for those
who would take heed.This is clear.
Therefore, you shall glorify GOD when you retire at
night, and when you rise in the morning.This is clear.
All praise is due to Him in the heavens and the
earth, throughout the evening, as well as in the middle of
your day.This is clear.
thank u for reading the article peace
I will do some more research on this.
May The God bless you all.
As salamu alaykum wr wb. -
Salam Brother Alen,
One more time, the proof about the 3 times for salat are more evident.
thanks for your excelent insight about the difference between "Prayer" and 'Praise'.
In the site submission.org they put in the following sequence, but after his post above, their arguments fail.
SeeFIVE PRAYERS A DAY AND THEIR TIME
God gave us the times for the Salat (contact Prayers) in the Quran
(1) The Dawn Prayer (Fajr in Arabic) given in 11114, 2458
(2) The Noon Prayer (Zuher in Arabic) , given in 1778 and 3018
(3) The Afternoon Prayer (Asr in Arabic), given in 2238
(4) The sunset Prayer (Maghrib in Arabic), given in 11114
(5) The Night Prayer (Isha in Arabic), given in 2458Of course, the 3018 is the great confusion. But, after we know what means prayer and praise, the solution is clear one (the first) salat in dawn (before the sunrise), the second in dusk (after sunset but before the night) and the third salat in the night.
But and about the "extra salat" (after the isha salat) in the middle of the night mentioned in Quran?
Stay in peace, -
peace! handshake
makes sence to me...
FIVE PRAYERS A DAY AND THEIR TIME
God gave us the times for the Salat (contact Prayers) in the Quran
(1) The Dawn Prayer (Fajr in Arabic) given in 11114, 2458
(2) The Noon Prayer (Zuher in Arabic) , given in 1778 and 3018
(3) The Afternoon Prayer (Asr in Arabic), given in 2238
(4) The sunset Prayer (Maghrib in Arabic), given in 11114
(5) The Night Prayer (Isha in Arabic), given in 2458check it yourself...
handshake -
I believe that verse 2458 completely kills three salats (at least two for sure) noon and afternoon (asr). The word "thaheeranoon" is mentioned in this verse, but explained as when we put off our clothes, not when we perform salaat, whereas fajr salat and ishaa' salaat are mentioned by name (no other saalat is mentioned so explicitly in the Quran). It also puts to an end the notion that "middle salaat" means "afternoon salaat", because if it was so important, why wasn't its time mentioned in this verse as one of the "critical" periods we need for ourselves?
Verse 629 further confirms that no day prayers except on the day of gathering/Friday. God has created day/ nahaar for our bread-winning (7811), so He is asking us that on that day we should abandon all business to go to the gathering/Friday salaat. If we have to do this everyday (noon and afternoon salaat), why this emphasis on that day?
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I am not in "fever" sorry, please do not take it personally. I just couldn't help myself. I apologize in advance for the joke.
Actually, in my opinion, Salah has nothing to do with ritual worship or even contact...
5016 Now indeed, it is We Who have created man and We know the whispering that goes on within his mind (all the intricacies of his thought process), for, We are nearer to him than his Vena cava.
If He knows what we think and feel, explain why would He ask for us to physically bow and prostrate?
Maybe the ritual (and I hesitate to call it Salah) can be used as a tool to satisfy our human-limited idea of God, but certainly not if we are to follow the Quran. Quran urges us to be people of action. Each of our actions should demonstrate service to God, which in itself is "Ibaadah"... Please explain how would a ritual prayer be of any practical benefit to humanity in the long run? What kind of God demands ritual worship? Does He need reassurance by us that He is God? He would already know how we feel about Him by probing our hearts and minds...
maxq
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Peace all,
The word "yaum" in al-qur'aan refers to a time period and not necessarily daylight so 629 does not necessarily prove that there is no DAY salat.
In my understanding, there is no such thing as the Friday prayer. There is no basis of a seven day week from al-qur'aan. The proper name of the day Jumaa was hijacked from the common noun "al-jumaa" from 629 meaning "assembly or gathering" and "yaum al-jumaa" in 629 means "time of the assembly/gathering". Now Allah never leaves anything vague/unclear in al-qur'aan. Which time is the time of the assembly/gathering according to al-qur'aan then ? If we look closely we find that the only time we are called to gather/assemble in this world in al-qur'aan is for hajj
2227 And call out to the people with the hajj, they will come to you walking and on every transport, they will come from every deep enclosure.
In my understanding the "yaum al-jumaa" in 629 refers to this time when the people are gathered for hajj and 629 refers to the call to the salat at this particular assembly/gathering for hajj and then the command to hasten towards remembring Allah and CEASE ALL SELLING makes total sense.
There is evidence of only two REQUIRED salat for muslimeen/mumineen in al-qur'aan. 1779 when read combined with 1778 kills any REQUIRED salat after dusk, and 1778 kills any REQUIRED salat between dawn and dusk.
1779 is proof that there is no more required salat at night after the one at dusk (from rubbing of the sun against horizon to the darkness of the night)
1778 You shall perform the salat from the rubbing of the sun at the horizon and declination at the time of its setting (lidulook al-shams) till the darkness of the night/twilight; and the Quran at dawn; the Quran at dawn is witnessed.
1779 And from the night you shall reflect upon it additionally for yourself, perhaps your Lord would grant you to a high rank.By the usage of the words "wamina allayli" (and from the night) in 1779 it is clear that after the time of the dusk salat mentioned in 1778 (from the rubbing of the sun at horizon to the darkness of the night), there is no more REQUIRED salat at night.
"Dulook" means both "rubbing" and "declination" and at the time of setting of the sun, BOTH occur rubbing against the horizon and declination. Thus "lidulook al-shams" in 1778 can only mean "the rubbing of the sun at the horizon and declination at the time of its setting".
11114 also kills any required salat during day between dawn and dusk. The phrase "and the near parts of the night" also refers to the same time period of dawn and dusk where night and daytime overlap and merge. The phrase "atraaf al-nihaar" as mentioned in al-qur-aan in 20130 implies that daylight can have many edges. The phrase "and the near parts of the night" in 11114 qualifies which two edges of daylight are being referred to in 11114 the ones near the night. Thus the only CONSISTENT times of salat referred to in 1778, 11114, and 2458 are dawn and dusk.
In my understanding there is no such thing as the "middle" prayer in al-qur'aan. That is the wrong translation of "salat al-wusta" which means "best/balanced/moderate salat" in the context of 2238 and al-qur'aan as a whole. According to 2238 Allah wants us to uphold all our salaats in the best/balanced/moderate manner.
Firstly, which salat would be the "middle" salat ? If there are 3 salats x, y and z then depending on which one is the first or initial salat would determine the middle salat. For example if x is the first or initial salat then y would be the middle salat, but if y is the first salat then z would be the middle one, and if z is the first salat then x would be the middle one.
Allah never leaves something vague as al-qur'aan is clear and detailed. I challenge anyone to give qur'aanic evidence as to which salat is CLEARLY the first salat and which salat is CLEARLY the "middle" salat according to al-qur'aan. If the middle salat is so important as to be mentioned separately in 2238 then Allah should have clearly told us which salat He is talking about as the middle salat and not leave it unclear and up to guess work.
Secondly, in 2238 when it says protect the salats in the beginning of the verse, that logically includes ALL salats and then it is redundant to say AND the middle salat, if the middle salat is a separate salat, because the word salats in the beginning of the verse automatically includes the middle salat as well IF THERE IS INDEED A MIDDLE SALAT. That logically proves that by "salat al-wusta" Allah does not mean a separate middle salat but is giving a descriptive property of how ALL our salats should be, i.e. the best/balanced/moderate salat, meaning that all our salats should be upheld in the best/balanced/moderate manner.
Thirdly, if one studies the usage of all the words derived from the root WST in al-qur'aan one finds that the meaning "middle" does not fit in any of those usages but the meaning best/balanced/moderate fits in those occurrences. Thus in 2238 "wusta" cannot mean middle because of the logical contradiction presented in the second paragraph above, and can only mean "best/balanced/moderate" as per context of that verse and the usage of similar words throughout al-qur'aan.
Please also refer to following links for explanation of what "salat al-wusta" means in context of 2238
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6028.msg92976#msg92976
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=1171.0 (this link has a comprehensive forum discussion/debate on salat al-wusta)
http//www.free-minds.org/contact.htm
Peace
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Peace maxq, all,
Thank you brother maxq for the kind words.
Actually, in my opinion, Salah has nothing to do with ritual worship or even contact...
5016 Now indeed, it is We Who have created man and We know the whispering that goes on within his mind (all the intricacies of his thought process), for, We are nearer to him than his Vena cava.
If He knows what we think and feel, explain why would He ask for us to physically bow and prostrate?
Maybe the ritual (and I hesitate to call it Salah) can be used as a tool to satisfy our human-limited idea of God, but certainly not if we are to follow the Quran. Quran urges us to be people of action. Each of our actions should demonstrate service to God, which in itself is "Ibaadah"... Please explain how would a ritual prayer be of any practical benefit to humanity in the long run? What kind of God demands ritual worship? Does He need reassurance by us that He is God? He would already know how we feel about Him by probing our hearts and minds...
Very well said brother maxq and I agree with the underlying wisdom in your post above. Having said that, I wanted to express my own thoughts on this topic which are in no way final and are open to refinement/improvement.
Allah does not need our service, submission, obedience etc.; they are for our own benefit.
Allah does not need our salat WHETHER PHYSICAL OR MENTAL; it is for our own benefit.
Allah does not need our ruku or sujood, WHETHER PHYSICAL OR MENTAL, to know how we think or feel; they are for our own benefit.
Salat does have mental AND physical components as is clear from al-qur'aan.
Ruku (humility) and sujood (obedience) do have mental AND physical components as is clear from al-qur'aan. The usage of the word "kharra/fall down" before ruku and sujood in some places in al-qur'aan e.g. 17107, 17109, 3824 is clear evidence that at least SOMETIMES the ruku and sujood CAN BE physical in addition to mental, especially in 17107 where the believers are asked to fall down on their CHINS in prostration "yakhirroona lil-athqani sujjadan". Furthermore the physical ruku has to be kneeling as per al-qur'aan as one cannot fall down bowing, and the physical sujood is on the chins according to al-qur'aan. Of course the ruku and sujood always have the mental component. Thus in my understanding,
RUKU and SUJOOD = ALWAYS MENTAL according to qur'aanic context
RUKU and/or SUJOOD = SOMETIMES PHYSICAL in addition to mental, depending on context.
As I see it, the physical component is not because Allah needs to be worshipped or for Him to know how we think or feel, BUT FOR OUR OWN BENEFIT. The physical component REINFORCES the mental component for ourselves; it reinforces and aids in the programming of our nafs/soul and solidifying our mental/neuronal pathways of humility and obedience so that we are able to walk the straight path and do good deeds in a better/best manner (it improves our CONDITIONED POSITIVE RESPONSES).
An analogy is when someone is learning how to play chess. One can go over all the moves and resultant board positions mentally only. On the other hand, one can move the actual pieces physically as well as go over the moves mentally, which will enable one to learn more efficiently, especially when one is not an advanced chess player yet. Now some grandmasters can play the whole game mentally only but to reach that grandmaster position they had to play those moves physically also on a chessboard at the initial stages !
This is just an expression of my present understanding and thoughts on this complicated subject and I am not trying to engage in a debate on this topic. The reader is advised to do his own research on this topic from al-qur'aan and verify it for oneself as per 1736.
Peace
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salaam,
this is from a non-RK translation that people may find less 'distorted' or, to be objective, closer to the original arabic. this translation is done by Dr. AR Fazely, who knew RK, saw some shortcomings, and wanted to more closely follow the arabic in his translation. i use the same verses as the original poster, because they are the salat-addressing verses ).
- dawn prayer
20130 Therefore, be patient in the face of their utterances, and glorify and praise your Lord, before sunrise and before sunset and also glorify during the night and during the day that He may be pleased.
- noon/middle prayer
2238 Remember the contact prayers, as well as the middle prayer and rise up for God humbly.
- afternoon (declining sun) prayer
1778 Observe the contact prayer when the sun starts its decline from the highest point in the sky towards the darkness of the night, and read the Quran at dawn, indeed the reading of the Quran at dawn is witnessed.
- sunset prayer
20130 again, and 5039 Therefore, be patient with their utterances and glorify and praise your Lord before sunrise and before sunset (this is the other "end" of daylight, along with dawn)
- night prayer
3018 And to Him belongs praise in the skies and the land and in the dark of the night and in the middle of the daylight.
wakas, you may like this translation of 1778 better than RK's. i am still learning arabic but i think it may be more accurate.
being people whose hearts are wide open to submission, we can volunteer to do more than the required number of prayers, no? even 5 prayers takes only about 10 minutes of reverence. the angels and the whole universe glorify and praise God constantly. this is truth. isn't that what we are here for?
also, God does not spell everything out in the Quran. yes, the necessary details and everything we need are included. but does He tell the women the exact number of inches below the knee to wear their skirt? no. it's because He tells us He endowed us with common sense; we should use that too, God willing.
peace,
farah -
Salaam Farah, all,
First of all welcome to the forum welcome
i use the same verses as the original poster, because they are the salat-addressing verses
No, not all of them are salat addressing verses.
When al-qur'aan mentions salaat to be upheld the phrase "AQIMI AL-SALAT" is used, not glorify (sabih) or praise (hamd) or remember (uzkur), or call (udu'u) or any other imperative. Of course "salaat" is for Allah's remembrance and praise but is not the only way of remembering and praising Allah and is also more than just praise and glorification of Allah. We can remember and praise Allah many times a day but lets try to find out how many times a day we are advised to uphold "salaat". When Allah tells us about the timings and names of "salaat", He clearly uses the word "salaat" in the verse, and not "praise" or "remembrance".
Thus we cannot use 20130 or 3018 to determine timing of salat.
2963 and 3125 are clear proof that praise of Allah can be done outside salat
2963 And if you ask them "Who sends down water from the sky, thus reviving the land after its death?" They will Say "God," Say "Praise be to God." But most of them do not understand.
3125 And if you ask them "Who created the heavens and the Earth?" They will Say "God." Say "Praise be to God." Yet, most of them do not know.Here the Prophet is praising Allah while in a conversation with the rejecters and not during salat.
3533 They will enter the gardens of Eden, where they will be adorned with bracelets of gold and pearls, and their garments in it will be of silk.
3534 And they will Say "Praise be to God who took away our sorrow. Our Lord is Forgiving, Appreciative."3973 And those who reverenced their Lord will be driven to Paradise in groups. When they reach it, and its gates are opened, its guards will say to them "Peace be upon you. You have done well, so enter to abide herein."
3974 And they said "Praise be to God who has fulfilled His promise to us, and He made us inherit the Earth, enjoying Paradise as we please. What a beautiful recompense for the workers!"Here the residents of Paradise are praising Allah after entering it, obviously not while upholding salat.
425 The heavens would nearly shatter from above them, and the Angels praise the glory of their Lord, and they ask forgiveness for those on Earth. Surely, God is the Forgiver, the Merciful.
To my knowledge, nowhere in al-qur'aan are angels mentioned as upholding salat but they praise Allah, thus praising Allah can be done outside salat.
5248 You shall be patient for the judgement of your Lord, for you are in Our sights; and glorify the praise of your Lord when you rise.
This is another proof that praise is not necessarily same as salat. We are being asked to praise Allah when we rise. Now one can rise before dawn or immediately after sunrise; does that mean that there is a required salat before dawn or immediately after sunrise ? One can however praise Allah at anytime even when one is not upholding salat.
- dawn prayer
It is not dawn prayer but dawn salat. For prayer Allah uses the word "du'a", so dawn prayer would be "du'a al-fajr" and not "salat al-fajr". The dawn salat is mentioned as "salat al-fajr" in al-qur'aan.
- noon/middle prayer
2238 Remember the contact prayers, as well as the middle prayer and rise up for God humbly.
"salat al-wusta" in the context of 2238 cannot mean "the middle prayer" but can only mean "the best/balanced/moderate salat". I will re-quote from my post above
"In my understanding there is no such thing as the "middle" prayer in al-qur'aan. That is the wrong translation of "salat al-wusta" which means "best/balanced/moderate salat" in the context of 2238 and al-qur'aan as a whole. According to 2238 Allah wants us to uphold all our salaats in the best/balanced/moderate manner.
Firstly, which salat would be the "middle" salat ? If there are 3 salats x, y and z then depending on which one is the first or initial salat would determine the middle salat. For example if x is the first or initial salat then y would be the middle salat, but if y is the first salat then z would be the middle one, and if z is the first salat then x would be the middle one.
Allah never leaves something vague as al-qur'aan is clear and detailed. I challenge anyone to give qur'aanic evidence as to which salat is CLEARLY the first salat and which salat is CLEARLY the "middle" salat according to al-qur'aan. If the middle salat is so important as to be mentioned separately in 2238 then Allah should have clearly told us which salat He is talking about as the middle salat and not leave it unclear and up to guess work.
Secondly, in 2238 when it says protect the salats in the beginning of the verse, that logically includes ALL salats and then it is redundant to say AND the middle salat, if the middle salat is a separate salat, because the word salats in the beginning of the verse automatically includes the middle salat as well IF THERE IS INDEED A MIDDLE SALAT. That logically proves that by "salat al-wusta" Allah does not mean a separate middle salat but is giving a descriptive property of how ALL our salats should be, i.e. the best/balanced/moderate salat, meaning that all our salats should be upheld in the best/balanced/moderate manner.
Thirdly, if one studies the usage of all the words derived from the root WST in al-qur'aan one finds that the meaning "middle" does not fit in any of those usages but the meaning best/balanced/moderate fits in those occurrences. Thus in 2238 "wusta" cannot mean middle because of the logical contradiction presented in the second paragraph above, and can only mean "best/balanced/moderate" as per context of that verse and the usage of similar words throughout al-qur'aan.
Please also refer to following links for explanation of what "salat al-wusta" means in context of 2238
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6028.msg92976#msg92976
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=1171.0 (this link has a comprehensive forum discussion/debate on salat al-wusta)
http//www.free-minds.org/contact.htm"
- afternoon (declining sun) prayer
1778 Observe the contact prayer when the sun starts its decline from the highest point in the sky towards the darkness of the night, and read the Quran at dawn, indeed the reading of the Quran at dawn is witnessed.
"Dulook" means "declination" or "rubbing"; it does not mean "when the sun starts its decline from the highest point in sky". Declination could be at any time during the sun's movement from the highest point; so which exact time of declination is Allah referring to ?
In my understanding it is the time when the sun is both "declining" and "rubbing at the horizon" at the time of sunset which fulfils BOTH meanings of "dulook". Thus "li dulook al-shams" in 1778 can only mean "from the rubbing of the sun at the horizon and declination at the time of its setting".
Thus the time for salat according to 1778 would be from the declination and rubbing of the sun at the horizon to the darkness of the night, which would be dusk.
- sunset prayer
20130 again, and 5039 Therefore, be patient with their utterances and glorify and praise your Lord before sunrise and before sunset (this is the other "end" of daylight, along with dawn)
I hope you don't mind but this is a bit funny. Do you mean to say that the "sunset salaat" is BEFORE SUNSET ? ;D
being people whose hearts are wide open to submission, we can volunteer to do more than the required number of prayers, no? even 5 prayers takes only about 10 minutes of reverence. the angels and the whole universe glorify and praise God constantly. this is truth. isn't that what we are here for?
We are trying to find the required number of SALAAT not required number of PRAYERS (DU'A). I still agree with you that one can perform voluntary salaat as many times as one wants. That is not, however, what we are trying to find out. We are trying to find out how many times muslims/mumins are REQUIRED or OBLIGATED to perform/uphold salaat according to al-qur'aan.
Thus for example according to 7626
7626 And from the night you shall prostrate to Him and praise Him throughout.
This verse is asking us to praise Allah THROUGHOUT the night; DOES THAT MEAN WE SHOULD NOT SLEEP AT ALL DURING THE NIGHT ?
Tanveer
