What on earth is the Kitaab????
-
Salam bro Simple.
Salaams fahad,
Thanks Br.
2213
Mankind was one single nation, and Allah sent Messengers with glad tidings and warnings; and with them He sent the Book in truth, to judge between people in matters wherein they differed; but the People of the Book, after the clear Signs came to them, did not differ among themselves, except through selfish contumacy. Allah by His Grace Guided the believers to the Truth, concerning that wherein they differed. For Allah guided whom He will to a path that is straight.Mankind where one community and Allah sent the prophets (as) heralds of glad tidings and warners and sent with them their ordeals for/with justice to judge between people in what they differed (in it) and did not differ in it except those who where given.................
The arabic word for "their" is not there in the actual text. And the word you are translating as "ordeals"(plural) is actually singular(al-kitaab).
So far i can't seem to finds an ayah where this trans doesn't work - but would apreciate if you could throw one my way.
What do you find wrong with translating "al-kitab" as "the book". And by the way, some words cannot be perfecty translated into english.
-
Salaams fahad,
whilst looking at the link you provided
saw this
3969 And the earth will shine with the light of its lord, and Al Kitab/The Book will be placed, and the prophets and the witnesses will be brought forward, and it will be judged between them with the truth and they will not be oppressed.
It says the book will be placed and judged?
Why in heavens name is a book judged , ...
The verse does not say that "al-kitab" will be judged. The "judged" part is not referring to "al-kitab".
...unless we say its not the/a book but our ordeals/ deeds/ events e.t.c
Aren't specefic words already used in the Quran for "ordeals, deeds and events" ? Why do you think "al-kitab" should mean any of the above?
-
Salaams fahad,
The verse does not say that "al-kitab" will be judged. The "judged" part is not referring to "al-kitab".
please elaborate what is the "it" being judged .
okay - so i may be wrong at certain times at how i use the trans - but i think we may have to do this as there are certain things which cannot be directly transferred from one language to another, but putting that aside,
What is the AL-kitaab in simple terms to you?
Thanks in advance.
-
Salam Simple.
Salaams fahad,
please elaborate what is the "it" being judged .
Not "al-kitab", thats for sure. There is no pronoun used.
okay - so i may be wrong at certain times at how i use the trans - but i think we may have to do this as there are certain things which cannot be directly transferred from one language to another,
In my opinion, that is not the right thing to do. That would be like forced translation. And it would cause confusions. Like if you translate "kitab" as "ordeals", what would you translate "kutub" as?
but putting that aside, What is the AL-kitaab in simple terms to you?
"Al-kitaab" should means the same thing throughout the Quran. Not like sometimes "ordeals" , sometimes "the record of deeds". Again, this will cause confusion. For example, in verse 1038, the Quran is called "tafseel of al-kitab". So, which meaning/translation of "al-kitab" will you put in verse 1038 and why, if one uses multiple meanings for a specefic word like "al-kitab".
The word "kitab" can refer to different things, but "al-kitab" should refer to the same thing.
And your signature
The quran doesn?t want explanations but needs a re-translation
Ahh... What I have learnt is (the very opposite of your statement), that the Quran cannot be translated perfectly, since that is impossible. But it can be explained perfectly, by using the Quran itself.
Thanks in advance.
No problem, brother.
-
Peace be upon you all,
The word "kitaab" means book. The concept of AL Kitaab is "THE BOOK", and is a metaphor for the universe. The Go dcreates all through Words/Sound (BE..and it becomes). All of crewation is a compilation of words/sounds (all things vibrate-produce sound).
There is a verse that says the God will roll up the skies and earth as a scroll/book, to further clarify the metaphor.
-
Salam Simple,
I?m thinking about what you posted?.
But I?d like to point out the basics first?. Here are the Definitions of the words of 21-23 using Hans Wehr and Lane Dictionaries. Please correct any errors this may have or if I have given the wrong root etc. I am a student of Arabic at this time. Also, this is not a complete definition of each word but I have given dictionary references for a more complete study.21 to be in pain or suffer
HW 29 Lane Vol 1 pg 11922 that, that one
HW 354 Lane Vol 2 pgs 113-11422 Book, To write, record
HW 951 Lane Vol 7 pgs 117-11922 notno! with apoc. Expressing negative imperative?. also don't not etc., not, nothing, (a general negative)
HW 999 Lane Vol 7 pgs 190-19122 To disquiet, alarm, fill with suspicion or misgivings or
to doubt.
HW 429 Lane Vol 3 pgs 363-36522 (A) Group, Class, Party, portion, division, or distinct body of people (2) a division (a quarter)
HW 809 Lane Vol 6 pgs 110,25222 (B) Because, Through(?) (or a more general definition would be within, during, in, at, etc) Lane says is a particle governing the gen. case (and used in the manners and senses explained in what here follows). It relates to a receptacle and, when used in a wider sense, to that which has some near resemblance thereto; and also to what is considered as a receptacle (in other words,) it denotes inclusion, or inbeing, either in relation to place or in relation to time; properly and tropically.
HW 859-860 Lane Vol 6 pgs 250-25122 quiet, still, calm, or unruffled; tranquil was motionless; was silent
HW 1197-1199 Lane Vol 8 pgs 136-13722 Fearing, Cautious, reverence or piety Fear of God and fear of sin (2) preservation or guarding of oneself
HW 115 Lane Vol 1 pgs 346-34723(A) fault or vice (2) or this or that and (relating to an object of masculine gender) for the dual you say and (these and those), is the dual form of ;i.e., you indicate the masc. Dual by in the nom. Case, and in the accus. And gen.
HW 354 Lane Vol 5 pgs 113-155-15723(B) He who, that which, who which, that
HW 28 No reference in Lane23 ?Oh? or other exclamation (?)
Cannot find Reference23 To tempt, put to the test, try or afflict (2) suffer, sustain, undergo, experience (3) to find by good luck (4) raise desire, raise hopes, to promise(5) Fate or destiny (6) fate of death or death
HW 1086 and 1088 Lane Vol 8 pg 27923 to be or remain absent, be or stay away, withdraw (2) leave or vanish, disappear, be swallowed up, hide or be hidden (3) hidden, concealed, invisible or unseen absent from the range, or beyond the reach, of perception by sense, or of mental perception
HW 806-807 Lane Vol 6 pg 9623 and, also, too (2) with (with following accusative such as "with him" (3) while, as, when, whereas (introducing circumstantial clauses "he said while he smiled" (4) by (in oaths) (5) many a, how many (with following genitive"how many a cup have I emptied!"
HW 1224 Lane Vol 8 pg 30223 To rate according to value, evaluate, (2) to assess,
to interpret (3) to manage, conduct, ordere, regulate, or
superintend (4) to stand still or in place stop
traveling/walking etc. (5) to rise, stand, stand erect?
rise from sitting
HW 943 Lane Vol 7 pg 24923 prayer, worship (2) to supplicate or petition (3)Blessing (4) said of a horse means to follow next after the foremost in a race or more simply to follow. (suggested in Lane's book to be originally Hebrew)
HW 611 Lane Vol 4 pg 444-44623 and, also, too (2) with (with following accusative such as "with him" (3) while, as, when, whereas (introducing circumstantial clauses "he said while he smiled" (4) by (in oaths) (5) many a, how many (with following genitive"how many a cup have I emptied!"
HW 1224 Lane Vol 8 pg 30223 to rent, i. e., pull so that it tore, (a garment) to wear out, or render threadbare, (and ragged) (2)both of them (a third person dual of the personal pronoun)
HW 1211 Lane Vol 8 pg 15323 To provide the means of subsistence (2) livelihood, means of living (3) daily bread, nourishment or the means of subsistence or of the support and growth of the body (4) A thing whereby one profits, or from which one derives advantage
HW 389-390 Lane Vol 3 pgs 242-24323 to sell something well or find a ready market for an item (2) to be used up, be spent, run out (stores,provisions, money) or exhausted (3) to die or perish (esp. of an animal) (4) to dissemble, dissimulate, play
the hypocrite (5) to provide support for someone or bear the cost of someone's maintenance. (6) tunnel or underground passage way
HW 1158 Lane Vol 8 pg 290With this in mind, the conversation may take a turn. These verses have a different meaning in classical Arabic than we?re used to using mainstream translations.
Would appreciate any comments or criticisms.
Salam -
Peace.
This is what the Kitaab is
482
Do they not reflect on the Quran? If it was from any other than God they would have found it very different.See, this Book, this scripture, this Quran, this revelation, ..... is unique. It has all that we need to enter eternal bliss - the Paradise!
No book is like The Quran!
Peace.
-
Peace.
This is what the Kitaab is
482
Do they not reflect on the Quran? If it was from any other than God they would have found it very different.See, this Book, this scripture, this Quran, this revelation, ..... is unique. It has all that we need to enter eternal bliss - the Paradise!
No book is like The Quran!
Peace.
Salam Alen,
When I look closely at 482 this is what I see...Do they not reflect on the Quran? If it was from any other than God they would have found it very different.
If it was any different from Torah, Injeel, Psalms or any other book with universal truth....we would not recognize it as from God.
Salam
-
Peace be upon you,
The question was about "Kitaab", not "Quran", why are the two being put together? Al quran is an explanation os Al Kitaab, it is not EQUAL to al kitaab.
-
Salaams All,
Lets have a final go at this!!!!!!!!!
Kana alnnasu ommatan wahidatanfabaAAatha Allahu alnnabiyyeena mubashshireenawamunthireena waanzala maAAahumu alkitaba bialhaqqiliyahkuma bayna alnnasi feemaikhtalafoo feehi wama ikhtalafa feehi illa allatheenaootoohu min baAAdi ma jaat-humu albayyinatubaghyan baynahum fahada Allahu allatheena amanoolima ikhtalafoo feehi mina alhaqqi bi-ithnihiwaAllahu yahdee man yashao ila siratinmustaqeemin
Mankind was one single nation, and Allah sent Messengers with glad tidings and warnings; and with them He sent the Book in truth, to judge between people in matters wherein they differed; but the People of the Book, after the clear Signs came to them, did not differ among themselves, except through selfish contumacy. Allah by His Grace Guided the believers to the Truth, concerning that wherein they differed. For Allah guided whom He will to a path that is straight.
214.
Am hasibtum an tadkhuloo aljannatawalamma ya/tikum mathalu allatheena khalaw minqablikum massat-humu alba/sao waalddarraowazulziloo hatta yaqoola alrrasoolu waallatheenaamanoo maAAahu mata nasru Allahi alainna nasra Allahi qareebunOr do ye think that ye shall enter the Garden (of bliss) without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? they encountered suffering and adversity, and were so shaken in spirit that even the Messenger and those of faith who were with him cried "When (will come) the help of Allah?" Ah! Verily, the help of Allah is (always) near!
Loking into the two ayah?s above one can see what is being sent
In 213 Al-Kitaab is being sent to judge between them.
In 214 Allah is saying you cannot get away by not being sent what was sent to those before you ?suffering and adversity thus shaking them in spirit?Can one see what the Al-Kitaab is Brothers.
SALAAMS ALL.
-
Salam Simple.
Salaams All,
Lets have a final go at this!!!!!!!!!
Ok!!!
Kana alnnasu ommatan wahidatanfabaAAatha Allahu alnnabiyyeena mubashshireenawamunthireena waanzala maAAahumu alkitaba bialhaqqiliyahkuma bayna alnnasi feemaikhtalafoo feehi wama ikhtalafa feehi illa allatheenaootoohu min baAAdi ma jaat-humu albayyinatubaghyan baynahum fahada Allahu allatheena amanoolima ikhtalafoo feehi mina alhaqqi bi-ithnihiwaAllahu yahdee man yashao ila siratinmustaqeemin
Mankind was one single nation, and Allah sent Messengers with glad tidings and warnings; and with them He sent the Book in truth, to judge between people in matters wherein they differed; but the People of the Book, after the clear Signs came to them, did not differ among themselves, except through selfish contumacy. Allah by His Grace Guided the believers to the Truth, concerning that wherein they differed. For Allah guided whom He will to a path that is straight.
214.
Am hasibtum an tadkhuloo aljannatawalamma ya/tikum mathalu allatheena khalaw minqablikum massat-humu alba/sao waalddarraowazulziloo hatta yaqoola alrrasoolu waallatheenaamanoo maAAahu mata nasru Allahi alainna nasra Allahi qareebunOr do ye think that ye shall enter the Garden (of bliss) without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? they encountered suffering and adversity, and were so shaken in spirit that even the Messenger and those of faith who were with him cried "When (will come) the help of Allah?" Ah! Verily, the help of Allah is (always) near!
Loking into the two ayah?s above one can see what is being sent
In 213 Al-Kitaab is being sent to judge between them.
Al-kitaab was revealed, not sent, according to the verse.
In 214 Allah is saying you cannot get away by not being sent what was sent to those before you ?suffering and adversity thus shaking them in spirit?
This verse is talking about what came to them. Two different words. And what came to them was ?suffering and adversity". Not al-kitaab.
Can one see what the Al-Kitaab is Brothers.
Yes. Al-kitaab is the book of Allah.
According to verse 373 , 'al-huda/the guidance' is 'hudallah/guidance of Allah'.
Using the same logic, 'al-kitaab/the book' is 'kitabillah/book of Allah' .
Case closed? Final go, you said.
-
Salaams Fahad,All,
Sorry Br you need to look at the very many meanings of the words rather then sticking with the meanings used in the common quran's - i think.
{One}
Mankind was one single nation, and Allah sent Messengers with glad tidings and warnings; and with them He sent the Book in truth, to judge between people in matters wherein they differed; but the People of the Book, after the clear Signs came to them, did not differ among themselves, except through selfish contumacy. Allah by His Grace Guided the believers to the Truth, concerning that wherein they differed. For Allah guided whom He will to a path that is straight.
Or do ye think that ye shall enter the Garden (of bliss) without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? they encountered suffering and adversity, and were so shaken in spirit that even the Messenger and those of faith who were with him cried "When (will come) the help of Allah?" Ah! Verily, the help of Allah is (always) near!New
2.213 He sent Al-Kitaab on account of deserving as a consequence of judgement?.
2.214 or you think that you will enter Paradise while has not yet come to you the like (of) those who passed away before you befell them adversity and affliction and where shaken???.See Allah sent Al-kitaab to the previous peoples and is asking, won?t you be sent likewise ? Al-kitaab-adversity and affliction?
The two ayahs? are intertwined.
{Two}
21-3.
Being in pain or suffering pain. (Alif, Lam, Mim)
That is Al-kitaab/ knowledge/ Decree/ Ordainment in it guidance for the pious who believe in unseen and perform counsel and out of what we have provided spend.So in any type of suffering or pain or problems people gather and resolve the issues/ find solutions the world over ? but only the God fearing are shown the solutions, are given guidance.
{Three}
Glory to (Allah) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless,- in order that We might show him some of Our Signs for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things).
We gave Moses the Book, and made it a Guide to the Children of Israel, (commanding) "Take not other than Me as Disposer of (your) affairs."Here when Moses kills the person and goes from a situation forbidding (killing) to a situation being wanted by law (Qassaa law), He is on the run and that suffering is his Al-kitaab.
{Four}
A. L. M.
(This is) the Revelation of the Book in which there is no doubt,- from the Lord of the Worlds.
Or do they say, "He has forged it"? Nay, it is the Truth from thy Lord, that thou mayest admonish a people to whom no warner has come before thee in order that they may receive guidance.New
321-3.
(Alif,Lam,Mim) Pain/ suffering .
Happening of Al-kitaab(pain/ suffering) in which is no doubt from the lord of the worlds.
Or do they say it is a weakness nay it is what they deserve from your lord that you may admonish a people not has come to them (any) warner before you in order that they may be guided.(Why are they being guided ? because they are doing evil and suffering because of it-no doubt.)
I believe every ayah where there is the word Al-Kitaab is translatable using the dictionary as above.
Salaams.
-
No Books at all.
Allah doesn't need them , but people do write them for themselves - i think.
-
Peace Alen,
This is what the Kitaab is
The quran is said to detail kitab . Kitab is that which makes manifest or clear , its inspiration/revelation is a mercy , its inspiration is from alamin , it has been given to Moses and has been a guide for COI , and relationships between people is in it .
Joe
-
No books at all ?! Where are you quoting the verses from then?
Of course Allah does not need the book. We need it.
I am quoting from a compilation of ayah's which where from Allah.
Salaams.
-
Peace Alen,
The quran is said to detail kitab . Kitab is that which makes manifest or clear , its inspiration/revelation is a mercy , its inspiration is from alamin , it has been given to Moses and has been a guide for COI , and relationships between people is in it .
Joe
Salaams Nabi,
{one}
This Qur'an is not such as can be produced by other than Allah; on the contrary it is a confirmation of (revelations) that went before it, and a fuller explanation of Al-kitaab/ the suffering - wherein there is no doubt - from the Lord of the worlds.
{Two}
Ta. Sin. Mim.
These are Verses of the Book that makes (things) clear.
We rehearse to thee some of the story of Moses and Pharaoh in Truth, for people who believe.
Truly Pharaoh elated himself in the land and broke up its people into sections, depressing a small group among them their sons he slew, but he kept alive their females for he was indeed a maker of mischief.
And We wished to be Gracious to those who were being depressed in the land, to make them leaders (in Faith) and make them heirs,New
282-4.
These are indications of Al-kitaab/ pains-suffering the severing beyond doubt.
We recite to you the information (of) Moses and Pharaoh with judgement for a people who believe.
Verily Pharaoh exalted himself in the land and made its people sects weakening a group among them killing their sons???{Three}
And thou hadst not expected that Al-kitaab/ pains suffering would be sent to thee except as a Mercy from thy Lord Therefore lend not thou support in any way to those who reject (Allah's Message).
(So the prophet knew any pains and suffering were as a mercy ? and he is being encouraged to carry on his work and not to be a supporter of the disbelievers.)
If indeed it had been just a message from Allah, and not a pain would / can one expect it to be other then a mercy?{Four}
And who does more wrong than one to whom are recited the Signs of his Lord, and who then turns away therefrom? Verily from those who transgress We shall exact (due) Retribution.
We did indeed aforetime give the Book to Moses be not then in doubt of its reaching (thee) and We made it a guide to the Children of Israel.new
Look at what Allah is saying
3222- ?.Verily from those who transgress We shall exact (due) Retribution.
3223- We did indeed aforetime give such retribution/ Al-kitaab to Moses be not then in doubt of its reaching (thee) and We made it a guide to the Children of Israel.Let me rephrase this last explanation-make it easier
3219 For those who believe and do righteous deeds are Gardens as hospitable homes, for their (good) deeds.
3220 As to those who are rebellious and wicked, their abode will be the Fire every time they wish to get away therefrom, they will be forced thereinto, and it will be said to them "Taste ye the Penalty of the Fire, the which ye were wont to reject as false."
3221 And indeed We will make them taste of the Penalty of this (life) prior to the supreme Penalty, in order that they may (repent and) return.3222 And who does more wrong than one to whom are recited the Signs of his Lord, and who then turns away therefrom? Verily from those who transgress We shall exact (due) Retribution.
3223 We did indeed aforetime give (such) Al-kitaab to Moses be not then in doubt of its reaching (thee) and We made it a guide to the Children of Israel.The question is what is the subject matter of Ayah?s 22 and 23 .Is it the recited signs and Al-kitaab or the retribution and Al-kitaab?
Would the wicked rebellious doubt the recital reaching them or the retribution reaching them?
Of course they doubt the retribution reaching them that is why they are wicked.
So Al-kitaab = retribution and nothing other
I hope you can grasp it.
God Bless.
-
Salaam All
There is no one al-kitaab. We have Al-Kitab; Kitaab mubeen and Al-Kitaab bil Haq, each of which is different from the other.
There is an on going mistake in translating "maa bain yadayhi ه as meaning before (aka in the past). This is just the opposite of what it means. It actually means before as in (I am standing before you= in front of you). It has a present conotation and not a past one. If you check the quran, this is the only meaning. You will often find it in opposition to (past, behind) as in the expressions (min bain aideehim wa min khalfihim ).
So, 1037 should be "...a confirmation of what he has before him, in his hands, and a means of seperating (verses) of Al- Kitab".The verses of the quran contain the miracle of Muhammad, which in perpetual manifestation. The Book (Al-Kitaab), on the other hand, has the laws and rules for our life on earth, and are pretty clearer.
Another way how the quran's tafseel is explained in this manner is verse548"And we have sent down to you Al-Kitaab bil Haq confirming Al-Kitaab that he has and controlling it...". This shows clearly that Al-Kitaab is not Al-Kitaab bil Haq; and compared to 1037, we can deduce that Al-Kitaab bil Haq = al quran.