Oddness Of Muhammad Ancestry??
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I've found this in the Quran
Yaa-Sin
waalqur-aani alhakiimi
By the Quran Of Great Wisdominnaka lamina almursaliina
Verily you are one of the messengers'alaa shiraathin mustaqiimin
on a straight pathtanziila al'aziizi alrrahiimi
casted upon by the The Hounourable and The Compassionatelitundzira qawman maa undzira aabaauhum fahum ghaafiluuna
To warn people whose fore-fathers were never been warned, for they are unaware.Quran Yaasin 361-6
When the (Quraish / resident of Mecca) Arabs (the qawm/people which Muhammad ibn Abdullah is sent to as God's messenger) is truly a descendant of Abraham/Ibrahim through Ishmail, then the above verse is 'incorrect' because their fore-father has been warned before, but they're neglecting their commandment and plunged into idol worshipping.
The above verse then should readTo warn people whose been neglecting their promise / commandment / shalaat their fore-fathers once pledge.
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litundzira qawman maa undzira aabaauhum fahum ghaafiluuna
To warn people whose fore-fathers were never been warned, for they are unaware.Quran Yaasin 361-6
When the (Quraish / resident of Mecca) Arabs (the qawm/people which Muhammad ibn Abdullah is sent to as God's messenger) is truly a descendant of Abraham/Ibrahim through Ishmail, then the above verse is 'incorrect' because their fore-father has been warned before, but they're neglecting their commandment and plunged into idol worshipping.
The above verse then should readTo warn people whose been neglecting their promise / commandment / shalaat their fore-fathers once pledge.
Believe me or not, I've always "understood" this verse as "to warn people what their fore-fathers have been warned (before)" since I only read it in arabic and never looked at it as meaning "whose fore-fathers never been warned"!!! "ma" in this context supports both meanings but it does not make sense to be "unaware" (ghafilun) of something you are not supposed to know. In that case, the word "ignorant" would have been used ("la yaalamun", for example)
I mean that the "fore-fathers" have necessarily been warned and the message of the prophet PBUH is only a reminder (to the present) of what has been "delivered" before.I looked through most translations in english and french that I have in my possession and the only meaning I found is that you report!! Amazing!
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Peace,
So what if during his time of ignorance Ahmed worshipped idols before revelations from God came to him and cleared everything? I do not think there is a problem at all with that. Besides, who knows that MAYBE at some point of his life even Jesus worshipped Ezra.
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I mean that the "fore-fathers" have necessarily been warned and the message of the prophet PBUH is only a reminder (to the present) of what has been "delivered" before.
I looked through most translations in english and french that I have in my possession and the only meaning I found is that you report!! Amazing!The translations of above verse is my own..
And here's "another translations which similar to mine".
http//www.free-minds.org/quran/PM/36
366 To warn a people whose fathers were not warned, for they are unaware.And how bout Muhammad encircling the house (still) full of idols?
And the early muslims prostrating to the house (still) full of idols?
And God protecting a house full of idols from destruction by Abrahah?
And Muhammad wed his own daughter to his own cousin?Is there any verse in the Quran which assert that Muhammad is a Quraish Tribe?
Salam / Peace
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Besides, who knows that MAYBE at some point of his life even Jesus worshipped Ezra.
The Jews at Jesus time never worshipped Ezra. YHVH is still worshipped as their one and only God.
The problems of the Jews at Jesus (Hebrew Iashuah) and John (Hebrew Iochanan) is hypocrisy of their priest and political leaders who invent many lies, false dogma and bid'ah. Quite similar to the situation of today Islam.It is also interesting to note the existence of "The Jewish Zealot" at that time which was a group of Jewish fanatics dreaming of kicking the Roman butts back to Rome and build one great independent Jewish state. They are willing to do anything (including terrorism, suicide and deceit) to bring back their past time of glory (Kingdom of David and Solomon). Sounds familiar huh...?
Salam / Peace
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Peace Jafar,
You're making some great points and I'm reading your posts on this subject with interest; however you've lost me with this point.What exactly are you saying here?
And how bout Muhammad encircling the house (still) full of idols?
And the early muslims prostrating to the house (still) full of idols?
And God protecting a house full of idols from destruction by Abrahah?
And Muhammad wed his own daughter to his own cousin?Thank you in advance for clarifications....
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Peace Jafar,
Peace
And how bout Muhammad encircling the house (still) full of idols?
On the "official" history and of course the good ol' "trustworthy Hadith", there are stories where Muhammad Ibn Abdullah the Messenger of God often perform the tawaf / encircling the Kaba while the Kaba itself is still full of all kinds of strange and silly Idols.
And the early muslims prostrating to the house (still) full of idols?
The Kaba in Mecca is supposed to be "the second qiblah", again according to the "official" history. While the "Kaba" itself back then has not yet been conquered thus there are still many idols standing merrily there. This "fact" from the "official" history then also said "Muhammad ibn Abdullah, his companion, his helper (anshar) and the mukminoon" once upon a time, prostrate to the Kaba filled with all kinds of strange and silly Idols.
And God protecting a house full of idols from destruction by Abrahah?
The Abrahah story, where the elephant troops is destroyed by God through strange birds from the sky throwing brimstone. The Abrahah troops (again according to the "official history" is trying to destroy the Kaba in Mecca, a house which back then was filled with many strange and silly idols.
(Please check the Quran wheteher there are explicit statements / verses on "Abrahah Troops is trying to destroy the Kaba in Mecca", because I haven't found any).
And Muhammad wed his own daughter to his own cousin?
Again and again according to the "official" history. Ali ibn Abi Thalib (Ali son of the father of Moon God) is Muhammad ibn Abdullah's (The praised one son of Servant Of God) cousin. Thus they share the same grandpa, this 'fact' also asserts that Muhammad ibn Abdullah is a member of Quraish Clan.
And Ali ibn Abi Thalib is married to Fatimah, one of Muhammad's daughter.
Salam / Peace
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Peace onto All
Jaafar you said
The problems of the Jews at Jesus (Hebrew Iashuah) and John (Hebrew Iochanan) is hypocrisy of their priest and political leaders who invent many lies, false dogma and bid'ah. Quite similar to the situation of today Islam.
and then
On the "official" history and of course the good ol' "trustworthy Hadith", there are stories where Muhammad Ibn Abdullah the Messenger of God often perform the tawaf / encircling the Kaba while the Kaba itself is still full of all kinds of strange and silly Idols.
I think you answered yourself. Hadith is full of hypocrisy and hence the need some Muslims feel to abandon it. You cannot rely on hadith to justify your premise if you yourself agree it is full of bid'ah.
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ohhhhh I didn't realize that was the point of the thread ... then I agree with you, Jafar, hadith is wacky tabacky ;D
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Additional information
I also just found out there's another "Pagan God's Name" in Muhammad's ancestry..
TA'LAB = Moon God...
http//www.pantheon.org/articles/t/talab.htmlAnd Abd' Al-Muthalib which means Servant of The Great Mu-Thalab..
Could this "Thalab" is actually TA'LAB the Arab's Moon God?Salam / Peace
SLM,
Could you "help" me,..
I try to know what is th? meaning of "mu" in "arabic" ?
Thank you.
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads" -
Muhammad Ibn Abdullah
The Praised One From Servant Of GodThis is the 'full / official name' which Muhammad often used on his letter.
Reference
http//muslim-canada.org/charter1.html
http//www.touregypt.net/featurestories/catherines5-14.htmWhat really 'unique' is the name of Muhammad's Father in full.. (When the 'official' history is correct and not some Arabs / Quraish fabrications)
Abdullah Ibn Abdul Muthalib
SLM,
Very interesting.
Could you help me,
I Would like to know, if there is ? "meaning" for "QURAISH" ?
Thank you,
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads" -
The translations of above verse is my own..
And here's "another translations which similar to mine".
http//www.free-minds.org/quran/PM/36
366 To warn a people whose fathers were not warned, for they are unaware.And how bout Muhammad encircling the house (still) full of idols?
And the early muslims prostrating to the house (still) full of idols?
And God protecting a house full of idols from destruction by Abrahah?
And Muhammad wed his own daughter to his own cousin?Is there any verse in the Quran which assert that Muhammad is a Quraish Tribe?
Salam / Peace
SLM,
Who is "Abrahah" ?
Is there ? misspelling !?
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads"