forgiveness

[Samia]

Before one forgives, it is essential that they establish their right first. There is no meaning for forgiveness if you are helpless. This is not forgiveness. That's what this verse tells us

42.40
The recompense for an injury is an injury equal thereto (in degree) but if a person forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from Allah for Allah loves not those who do wrong.

I also don't agree fully with the translation of "reconciliation" for the verb "aSla7a ". This verb has the notion of "doing a good deed", a step above forgiveness. For example you forgive someone who harmed you. You should not stop there, but help them solve the problem that makes them aggressive. This is "iSlaa7 ", not reconciliation.

[thegod]

abrar wrote

peace and greetings
Following Verses of Quran illustrate the concept of kindness
"...and do good as God has done good to you..." 2877
".......Let them pardon and forgive. Would you not like God to forgive you? And God is Forgiving, Merciful." 2422
"Take to pardoning, and order with what is good, and turn away from the ignorant ones." 7199
"It was a mercy from God that you were soft towards them; had you been harsh and mean hearted, they would have dispersed from you; so pardon them and ask forgiveness for them, and consult them in the matter; but when you are convinced, then put your trust in God; God loves those who trust." 3159
"Push away evil with that which is better. We are better aware of what they describe." 2396
"......and they counter sin with good; these will have an excellent abode." 1322
"And the servants of the Almighty who walk on the Earth in humility and if the ignorant speak to them, they Say Peace." 2563

indeed....very illustrative! -)

so does 1 completely forget the incident?

...like say i wrong somebody and ask for forgiveness....

is the other person within her/his rights to not afford me the same level of respect/trust as before?

...or would that mean i ve not been truly forgiven? -)

think i sound a bit vague....hope not too (vague)....! -)

peace and greetings! -)

[thegod]

samia wrote
Before one forgives, it is essential that they establish their right first. There is no meaning for forgiveness if you are helpless. This is not forgiveness.

establish their right..hmmm...so does that mean unless 1 has the power to avenge...1 does not have the power to forgive? and that in such a situation there really is no such thing as "forgiveness"? -)

That's what this verse tells us

42.40
The recompense for an injury is an injury equal thereto (in degree) but if a person forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from Allah for Allah loves not those who do wrong.

I also don't agree fully with the translation of "reconciliation" for the verb "aSla7a ". This verb has the notion of "doing a good deed", a step above forgiveness.

at the moment i agree that it does not seem to be reconciliation...i personally think slh has something to do with either "right", "correct", "acceptable", "beneficial", or "conducive"....hmmm...whatever! -)

For example you forgive someone who harmed you. You should not stop there, but help them solve the problem that makes them aggressive.

okay..."you should not stop there"....i think u are talking about the best approach and not the necessary approach? or have i got that wrong? -)

This is "iSlaa7 ", not reconciliation.

cool! -)

[Samia]

establish their right..hmmm...so does that mean unless 1 has the power to avenge...1 does not have the power to forgive? and that in such a situation there really is no such thing as "forgiveness"? -)

Sort of! For example, Someone owes you money, but he insists he paid you that. What are you going to forgive? You have to establish your right to that money, then forgive him and leave it for him, but not before. God set the law for us to establish our right. When it is punishment or payback time, you forgive.

okay..."you should not stop there"....i think u are talking about the best approach and not the necessary approach? or have i got that wrong? -)

You got it right. "iSlaa7" in this context is a degree higher than forgiveness.

[abrar]

Peace and greetings,

Peace and greetings,

"## so does 1 completely forget the incident?

...like say i wrong somebody and ask for forgiveness...."

Yes if you have done wrong and have repented and asked for forgiveness from the one you mistreated and compensated his loss in an appropriate way if you have caused any, you must forget your guilt completely and promise yourself not to do it again.

"is the other person within her/his rights to not afford me the same level of respect/trust as before?

...or would that mean i ve not been truly forgiven? -)"

It depends on the other person that how he reacts to your repentance and if he does not afford you the same level of respect/trust you must not get dishearted or concerned as the other person is a human and it takes time to adjust. It is advisable for the hurt person to forgive as easily as possible to ensure his personal peace of mind and in order to move away from undesirable feelings and anger. However it may take time to adjust but forgiving others is key to making peace and understanding. It is also peacful and good for one's own self as well.

[thegod]

samia wrote
Sort of! For example, Someone owes you money, but he insists he paid you that. What are you going to forgive? You have to establish your right to that money, then forgive him and leave it for him, but not before. God set the law for us to establish our right. When it is punishment or payback time, you forgive.

okay....i think i get what u r saying! -)

..but does that mean u carry "hard feelings" till then?

You got it right. "iSlaa7" in this context is a degree higher than forgiveness.

cool! -)

[thegod]

abrar wrote
Peace and greetings

peace and greetings! -)

Yes if you have done wrong and have repented and asked for forgiveness from the one you mistreated and compensated his loss in an appropriate way if you have caused any, you must forget your guilt completely and promise yourself not to do it again.

well...that isnt what i meant...but yes, u have made a very interesting point there! -)

....i was trying to ask should the wronged person completely forget the wrong done to him/her? -)

It depends on the other person that how he reacts to your repentance and if he does not afford you the same level of respect/trust you must not get dishearted or concerned as the other person is a human and it takes time to adjust. It is advisable for the hurt person to forgive as easily as possible to ensure his personal peace of mind and in order to move away from undesirable feelings and anger. However it may take time to adjust but forgiving others is key to making peace and understanding. It is also peacful and good for one's own self as well.

that's pretty good advice there! -)

just so that i can understand a lil better is it possible that the person has forgiven me.....even if s/he chooses not to be warm and friendly as before? -)

peace and greetings! -)

[Samia]

Abrar wrote

It is advisable for the hurt person to forgive as easily as possible to ensure his personal peace of mind

Forgive what if the guilty person repented and compensated? If this person is still angry, this is called transgression. He has no forgiveness to give, but he is asked to try to forget. After repentence and compensating, forgiveness is now in the realm of God. The repenting person is clear in this world and should not bother about the other one. But here comes the "iSla7" where the repenting person should teach the hurt one some good manners!!

[Samia]

....or take them for some councelling or healing session to help them move on..and pay for it

[thegod]

samia wrote
Forgive what if the guilty person repented and compensated? If this person is still angry, this is called transgression. He has no forgiveness to give, but he is asked to try to forget. After repentence and compensating, forgiveness is now in the realm of God. The repenting person is clear in this world and should not bother about the other one. But here comes the "iSla7" where the repenting person should teach the hurt one some good manners!!

okay...so how does 1 determine "compensation"? -)

[Alen]

Salam.

When a person thinks of revenge and not forgiving, that person should think, first of the near future (will the revenge harm or benefit his near future), then the person should think about the distant future (will the revenge harm or benefit his distant future) and finally the person should think about the Judgment Day will it matter if he avenges himself and gets angry and doesn't forgive and goes on what his feelings say and kills the man who, this is an example, who burned down his house.

Think of The Judgment Day.

Peace.

[thegod]

alen wrote
When a person thinks of revenge and not forgiving, that person should think, first of the near future (will the revenge harm or benefit his near future), then the person should think about the distant future (will the revenge harm or benefit his distant future) and finally the person should think about the Judgment Day will it matter if he avenges himself and gets angry and doesn't forgive and goes on what his feelings say and kills the man who, this is an example, who burned down his house.

Think of The Judgment Day.

an interesting example! -)

what if u think i am being unjust to u, but i disagree and think what i am doing is perfectly alright, and continue in my arrogance...

...how would u deal with me? -)

[Alen]

an interesting example! -)

what if u think i am being unjust to u, but i disagree and think what i am doing is perfectly alright, and continue in my arrogance...

...how would u deal with me? -)

Salam.

Person A says and thinks is just to person B.
Person B thinks person A is lying and that person A is really being unjust.
Person A knows this, ignores it and contnues.
That is why person B has the right to take action and defend himself.

Peace.

[thegod]

alen wrote
Person A says and thinks is just to person B.
Person B thinks person A is lying and that person A is really being unjust.
Person A knows this, ignores it and contnues.
That is why person B has the right to take action and defend himself.

"b" is powerless against "a", and "a" continues to exploit....what should "b" do here?

....hate/curse/wish evil for "a".....or something else? -)

..ofcourse, besides doing all else s/he can do, including praying to god n blah blah blah! -)

salam! peace! -)

salam! peace! -)

[nadeem]

Greetings, O fellow openminded students! (The rest of you, the logout button is on the top, below the search box. Thanks!)

Haven't read the whole thread, so please forgive me if I'm simply repeating.

'Forgiveness' for me is less about anyone else but more about me. Hate, anger and rage are ties, bonds and shackles that will burn and wear and weigh you down and tear you up. To forgive, for me, is therefore about escaping this 'hell' and setting myself free.

4243
And for he who is patient and forgives, then that is an indication of strength.

...it takes guts...

Nadeem

[thegod]

nadeem wrote
Greetings, O fellow openminded students! (The rest of you, the logout button is on the top, below the search box. Thanks!)

that's 1 of the more novel greetings i have come across....

though i am not sure why u are helping the rest to locate the logout button! grin

Haven't read the whole thread, so please forgive me if I'm simply repeating.

-S

'Forgiveness' for me is less about anyone else but more about me. Hate, anger and rage are ties, bonds and shackles that will burn and wear and weigh you down and tear you up. To forgive, for me, is therefore about escaping this 'hell' and setting myself free.

interesting take! -)

....but what do u do if somebody subjects u to the same treatment day in and day out?

....do u forgive them at the start and end of each day...and every second of the day? -)

4243
And for he who is patient and forgives, then that is an indication of strength.

...it takes guts...

yeah...and perhaps a good, level head? -)

greetings O openminded student! -)

[nadeem]

Salute to the openminded ones!

that's 1 of the more novel greetings i have come across....

Hehe... just thought I'd say something new -)

though i am not sure why u are helping the rest to locate the logout button!

... so that they may click it...

...but what do u do if somebody subjects u to the same treatment day in and day out?

....do u forgive them at the start and end of each day...and every second of the day? -)

Good question. As far as it is possible, I'd kill them... with kindness. -)

"The servants of the Almighty are those who tread the earth gently, and when the ignorant speak to them, they only utter peace." (2563)

But again, as far as it is feasible, and taking into account what kind of hostility it is that is being aimed at me.

If it's simple namecalling, or oral abuse, then I have very high pain treshold, and I'd follow the quran on this one, Insh'allah. Forgiveness won't even be a issue as I will refrain from hosting the feeling of blame towards him, insh'allah.

If it's physical abuse, or wrongdoing that can cause me physical, and through that mental, pain. I'd be more repsonsive and confrontational. Difficulties of setting one self free becomes harder proportionally to the strengt of the shackles.

If someone beats me everyday, sure it'll be a ball-busting task to forgive that person, and no sane person should expect me to do that either. But God-willing, I'll let time heal my wounds.

But, I want so much to able to look at violent and abusive people as those who are drowning in a big cold sea. If you go near them, they cling to you with such a force and in their panic they are likely to hit and knock out some of your theeth, but in those moments of stress, can you single out even one split second were you were hating that drowing person? Even if he is hitting you... Bothered, perhaps, but hating?

I'm not sure if I'm making any sense, but that's my 2 cents.

Nadeem

[thegod]

nadeem wrote
Hehe... just thought I'd say something new -)

lolz...and u suceeded mighty well at it!

... so that they may click it...

ah! kill so softly...u do..eh? gotta be wary of u bro! -S grin

Good question. As far as it is possible, I'd kill them... with kindness. -)

ah..the killer in u...not so off the mark...was i? hmm

"The servants of the Almighty are those who tread the earth gently, and when the ignorant speak to them, they only utter peace." (2563)

But again, as far as it is feasible, and taking into account what kind of hostility it is that is being aimed at me.

If it's simple namecalling, or oral abuse, then I have very high pain treshold, and I'd follow the quran on this one,
Insh'allah. Forgiveness won't even be a issue as I will refrain from hosting the feeling of blame towards him, insh'allah.

If it's physical abuse, or wrongdoing that can cause me physical, and through that mental, pain. I'd be more repsonsive and confrontational. Difficulties of setting one self free becomes harder proportionally to the strengt of the shackles.

If someone beats me everyday, sure it'll be a ball-busting task to forgive that person, and no sane person should expect me to do that either. But God-willing, I'll let time heal my wounds.

legends hail job...but u aint doing so bad urself! grin

But, I want so much to able to look at violent and abusive people as those who are drowning in a big cold sea. If you go near them, they cling to you with such a force and in their panic they are likely to hit and knock out some of your theeth, but in those moments of stress, can you single out even one split second were you were hating that drowing person? Even if he is hitting you... Bothered, perhaps, but hating?

...perhaps, if u are able to look at it that way! -)

I'm not sure if I'm making any sense, but that's my 2 cents.

sure u make (sense)! -)

salute to the openminded one! -)

[Alen]

"b" is powerless against "a", and "a" continues to exploit....what should "b" do here?

....hate/curse/wish evil for "a".....or something else? -)

..ofcourse, besides doing all else s/he can do, including praying to god n blah blah blah! -)

salam! peace! -)

salam! peace! -)

Salam.

B is powerless against A and the latter guy continues with his behaviour? Okay.
Mr., B should do this think of Heaven.
What is heavier Paradise or returning fire?

Let's say someone says to me"Hey, Alen, you look like a terrorist with that beard."
My response"May The God Almighty helps us all."
Why?
Because when i stand before The God Almighty, i will remember how back then i mentioned The God Almighty and all he did was naming me a terrorist and then The God Almighty will tell him the Truth. Among others, that i'm not a terrorist.

The God Almighty knows best.
Salam.

[thegod]

alen wrote
Salam.

B is powerless against A and the latter guy continues with his behaviour? Okay.
Mr., B should do this think of Heaven.
What is heavier Paradise or returning fire?

Let's say someone says to me"Hey, Alen, you look like a terrorist with that beard."
My response"May The God Almighty helps us all."
Why?
Because when i stand before The God Almighty, i will remember how back then i mentioned The God Almighty and all he did was naming me a terrorist and then The God Almighty will tell him the Truth. Among others, that i'm not a terrorist.

okay...how if "a" says to "b" hey "b" and whaps him on the head, every couple of hours! -S

salam! -)