Why There Can Never be a Quranic State

Wakas

Firstly, are you sure you have determined what "no compulsion in the obligation" means and refers to? If so, then you can deduce what you deduced.

Secondly, have you cross-referenced this with all relevant occurrences and does this support your position? If yes, then you can deduce what you deduced.

If not, then I think I would need more evidence than what you gave above!

phoenix1

peace
I'll have to admit, no, I havnt cross referenced it. I just thought about this and decided to share it.
Maybe we can discuss what "no compulsion" actually means, then.

abrar

Peace and greetings,

Dear phoenix 1,

I think that laws should be applicable according to people's different systems but there should be laws that ban inhumane laws and practices. There should be freedom to follow any system without any inhumane laws. If the state is a muslim majority its constitution should be according to Quranic laws allowing relaxation of system freedom
accordingly.

jankren

As I have said several times in the past there is no such a thing as Quranic State.

warner

Peace

2 256
Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth stands out clear from error; whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

La_ ikra_ha fid din(i), qad tabayyanar rusydu minal gaiy(i), famay yakfur bit ta_gu_ti wa yu'mim billa_hi fa qadistamsaka bil 'urwatil wusqa_ lanfisa_ma laha_, walla_hu sami'un 'alim(un).

The above is the verse in question. Do not confuse laws which have to be enforced in certain situations with compelling someone to become a believer instead of being a Jew, Christian, polytheists or even an atheist. The Quraan is very clear in so many places that people can live in whatever the faith they can without being forced to believe under compulsion even under a Muslim rule since the messengers work is to preach the criterion of good and bad , truth and falsehood. The consequence of false belief, here and in the hereafter, is made clear in the message but nowhere in the message it instructs prophet or anyone to forcibly convert people from what ever beliefs they have.

109 6 Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.
Lakum dinukum wa liya din

Please read the whole verse also the next verse 2256-257. The verse continues ?? Truth stands out clear from error;?.?

The Quraan says there is no need for compulsion since truth stands out clear from falsehood but if anyone wants to follow anything else it is at their own peril.

Coming back to enforcing laws for example no government in the world today compels people to choose a faith but every government enforces laws for murder, theft and most have laws for even enforcing speed limits. All of us have rights but at the same time we have no right take away others rights or create mischief. It is common sense if the ?no compulsion...? in 2256 would have applied to the laws and punishments those laws and punishments would not have been mentioned in the Quraan in the first place.

Alen

peace be upon all,
Because the quran promises "no compulsion!" All the laws, punishments, constitutions have to be enforced. The quran says that it's message and rules cannot be enforced. That everyone is free to choose.
This leads me to think that all the punishments and laws and commands could be figurative.
Just a thought (I may be waaayy off), what do you think? ? ? ?
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12958.0

Salam.

They don't have to be enforced.
You can simply install the Laws without calling them the laws.
For example, you run for office, you win, you buy the tobacco company and close it down. You do the same with factories that manufacture alcohol, you buy all the malls and stores that sell haram products and eliminate them and there you have it, semi-Quranic state, right?

No one has to know and you don't have to say"Hey, people, i'll be closing down the tobacco company because tobacco is sin." You simply say"I'll be closing the tobacco company because i intend to open a theatre." Or a hotel. Or a restaurant. Or a kindergarden. Or a school for Arabic language.

Then you buy bunch of banks, join them and remove the interests from it and buy .....libraries and remove the ..... you know ..... lying books ...... if you know what i mean.

I mean, you can have a Quran alone state like that, in a year or maybe ten years if only we try and if only we put our strength together, we could do this.

You opened a good question and i must say i have been thinking of something like this for a while now, brother.

Peace.

Layth

Peace,

There is no complusion to follow the system of God. However, once a people decide to apply the system to regulate their lives/community, then it is not an option for people who want to live within such a community to apply anything else.

To give an example, a Muslim living in the US is forced to accept US laws and regulations even though he/she may not agree with such system/deen. A Muslim in the US cannot apply the laws of the Quran as he/she may risk the penalty of imprisonment. The option in this case is to emigrate to a community/nation that applies the laws of God only (no such community exists these days to my knowledge).

abrar

Peace and greetings,

Brother Layth wrote
"However, once a people decide to apply the system to regulate their lives/community, then it is not an option for people who want to live within such a community to apply anything else."

I agree with brother Layth because this is what happens in real life. You lose your freedom if your system is not compatable with the system of the people of your community.

Brother Layth wrote
"The option in this case is to emigrate to a community/nation that applies the laws of God only. "

Indeed this is the best option and an ideal solution. However real life solutions may somewhat be not upto our expectations.

Alen

Peace,
There is no complusion to follow the system of God. However, once a people decide to apply the system to regulate their lives/community, then it is not an option for people who want to live within such a community to apply anything else.
To give an example, a Muslim living in the US is forced to accept US laws and regulations even though he/she may not agree with such system/deen. A Muslim in the US cannot apply the laws of the Quran as he/she may risk the penalty of imprisonment. The option in this case is to emigrate to a community/nation that applies the laws of God only (no such community exists these days to my knowledge).

Salam.

I'm sorry but i will have to disagree with you on a certain issue here.
A Muslim living in a USA (US citizen or not) is not forced to abandon Quran even though he must accept and go by the US laws.

A Muslim in the USA can still follow just The Quran in his life anywhere in the world, in USA even more. Why? Because USA is a continent and in Iraq, if you pray "wrong" the other branch might hurt you.

Which laws of The Quran would you like to apply while in USA, if i may ask?

Peace.

Layth

Peace,

I'm sorry but i will have to disagree with you on a certain issue here.
A Muslim living in a USA (US citizen or not) is not forced to abandon Quran even though he must accept and go by the US laws.

A Muslim in the USA can still follow just The Quran in his life anywhere in the world, in USA even more. Why? Because USA is a continent and in Iraq, if you pray "wrong" the other branch might hurt you.

Which laws of The Quran would you like to apply while in USA, if i may ask?

Really? Fine, go ahead and publicly lash an adultress/adulter in the US and then call me from jail where they will haul you for carrying out a Quranic law.

salgan

Peace all

why do most people here want to run a state /country most of us here can not even get togeather and run a small community between our selves.
Also why Quranic state whos version/translation are you going to take up?

How many of you out there who have money and would invest buildding a community because thats what it takes in this world money commitment and faith in what you belive.Every thing else is just wishfull thinking.

Peace salim

unknownuser

Peace All

Theoretically speaking, I agree with all the brothers on the thread who explained that a Quranic state can exist based on quranic law, that none exists today, and that if it were to exist we should live there.

Realistically speaking, I agree with Bro Salgan. We are not united enough even in what we believe a simple aya to mean so I doubt it realistically is possible to form a quranic state.

Dion

There Can Never be a Quranic State???

Yes there can.
Freedom of speech, choice, believe, movement, trade and commerce...
Right to privacy, self defense, silence, fair trail if accused...

Some countries have adopted all these, all in line with the Quran.

Maybe we have a different understanding of "Quranic Country".

Wakas

peace salim,

I agree with the sentiment of your post.

Personally, I give priority to the Quranic "state" within.

Alen

Peace All
Theoretically speaking, I agree with all the brothers on the thread who explained that a Quranic state can exist based on quranic law, that none exists today, and that if it were to exist we should live there.
Realistically speaking, I agree with Bro Salgan. We are not united enough even in what we believe a simple aya to mean so I doubt it realistically is possible to form a quranic state.

Salam.

I agree.
We need to be more united, i wrote on that earlier.
But how?
How do we get together?
Is it just the meetings, the piling up the money, what?
I really wanna know, because i want this community, Quran Alone Muslims, to grow, be strong, stand and stay until The Judgment Day.

Peace.

jankren

There Can Never be a Quranic State???

Yes there can.
Freedom of speech, choice, believe, movement, trade and commerce...
Right to privacy, self defense, silence, fair trail if accused...

Some countries have adopted all these, all in line with the Quran.

Maybe we have a different understanding of "Quranic Country".

Such has always been my thought of a 'Quranic state'.
I once said in some ways countries like USA is more 'Quranic' than most other countries.

Andya_Primanda

Such has always been my thought of a 'Quranic state'.
I once said in some ways countries like USA is more 'Quranic' than most other countries.

Bro Jankren, given the United States we see today, I am reluctant to call it Quranic... Pick another example. Say... Finland?

jankren

Bro Jankren, given the United States we see today, I am reluctant to call it Quranic... Pick another example. Say... Finland?

Well that works for me. I think all of the scandinavian countries are pretty good examples. However, one thing is sure is even USA is way more 'quranic' than say Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan.

AspeRin

peace
now how things are,u cant be a politician and run for president promising people a quranic state,but someday when things cant go more wrong than they are,people will understand better,and learn that they have to live under a law of God.we know very well,human made laws fail,and if human made laws are good are related to quran.the constitution of usa its close to quran,not exatcly it(its use doesnt exist,the new gov created new laws that contradict the constitution...quran and constitution,hadith and patriot act.similar).but a time when people its searching for divine law,where will u find it? what about a book full of happenings that were discovered due to today's technology? quran , a numerical code that proves its from God? quran , hasnt changed in 1400+ years and can be proven? finally quran...
we will experience this event with the time.it just takes God's order to happen.
peace

guest

Peace to All, there is no such thing as more Quranic States. Either it is or not. For a proper understanding of what a Quranic State is, I urge you to read the article entitled ?State Affairs? by G. A. Parwez Translated by Dr. Abdul Wadud. Here is the link http//www.tolueislam.com/Parwez/QL/QL_1.htm

Following are highlights of the article

The difference between an Islamic State and a secular state is that in an Islamic State, affairs are conducted within limits laid down by the Quran. Nobody has the right to transgress these limits; in other words, the right to rule belongs to Allah alone
An Islamic State is an agency that enforces the divine command. On the contrary, the system of government in which the right of law-making is exercised by human beings, is a secular regime, whatever its shape may be. That is the line of demarcation between infidelity and Islam
It has been ordained by Allah, that "in it, all affairs shall be settled by consultation." This system shall differ from the western system of democracy in which the nation or the representatives of a nation possess the comprehensive powers of law-making; in other words sovereignty belongs to the nation as a whole but in an Islamic Government the sovereignty belongs to (the Book of) Allah. Leaving aside the representatives of the people, even the entire nation has no right either to make laws against it, or bring about a change in it. The opponents of this system used to ask the Rasoole "If you could make a change in the Quran according to our liking we are ready to compromise with you". In answer to their demand Allah addresses the Rasoole thus (1015) "Say It is not for me, to change it of my own accord. I follow not but what is revealed unto me. If I were to disobey my Rabb, even slightly, I am afraid of the punishment I shall receive according to the Law of Requital". It is apparent that when even the Rasoole could not make any change in it at his own, how can anybody else be allowed to do so Now, as far as the system of majority and minority in a democratic system is concerned, it is apparent that since every matter shall have to be decided in accordance with the Quranic Injunctions, so the question of casting the votes does not arise. The concept that the decisions made by the majority are based on truth is false. The Rasoole is addressed as follows (6117)
In order to conduct the affairs of the state, there shall be an administrative centre and under this centre there shall be legally authorised officers. Because a system like this was first organised by the Rasoole, thus the term 'Allah and Rasool' has been used for it in the Quran, which means Divine organisation put in to practice by the Rasoole. Thus the obedience to 'Allah and the Rasool' meant the obedience to the Centre of this Divine System. Under command of this Centre were the officers Ulil Amr authorised to take decision according to the Law. An appeal against the cases decided by these authorised officers was permissible, but the decisions made by the Centre used to be final
According to the Quran, obedience belongs to the Divine Laws and an Islamic Government is an agency to put these laws into action. Thus any decision by the government which goes against the Quran, its obedience shall not remain mandatory (182
According to the Quran the entire Ummah, as compared to the non-Muslims, is one party. Within the Ummah itself the presence of parties, may it be religious parties or political parties, is 'shirk' (assigning partners unto Allah)