Follow the Prophet Muhammad in the Quran?
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As Salaam Alaikum,
Right now I am not reading the Quran too much, but this just popped up in my head while surfing... (so please don't give me smart comments like , "look it up yourself"Does the Quran actually ever say, "follow the Prophet Muhammad"?
I ask this because many hadith followers will say we are suppose to obey and FOLLOW the Prophet.
The "follow" part gives them support to say that even if someone claimed to observed the Prophet doing something, it is enough to make it a command for folks. They obligate themselves to doing something based on what they believe the Prophet did, not nessarily commanded.
Does anyone have any insight on this?
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Peace "ibelieveinitonly",
The Quran asks us to obey the messenger yes. Qs is HOW do we obey him? By looking at hadith which are biased sources and things madeup in the name of the prophet or by looking at the Quran. YES the Quran ALSO contains the relevant sayings of the messenger. Heres an example of what the messenger really said
The messenger* said, "My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran."
NO one can EVER tell for sure as to what the prophet did or said except through 1) the Quran, 2) via independent arch evidence. The 2nd cannot have been deemed necessary by GOD and the following verse makes tht clear
Recall that you said to the one who was blessed by GOD, and blessed by you, "Keep your wife and reverence GOD," and you hid inside yourself what GOD wished to proclaim. Thus, you feared the people, when you were supposed to fear only GOD. When Zeid was completely through with his wife, we had you marry her, in order to establish the precedent that a man can marry the divorced wife of his adopted son. GOD's commands shall be done.Shows that Muhammad uttered sayings not as a messenger too. All things he uttered in regards to religious teachings relevant for all time are in the Quran. GOD Bless!
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Wa Alaikum As Salaam,
First of all most Sunnis are not aware of how flawed the Hadith are and how even "authentic" narrations are not really 100% verified. If you look at how they were collected you can see that it relies too heavily on hearsay and not very much on verifiable evidence. The Quran is different because people can read it and by themselves believe it is from God (and of course that depends on the person and their values - which is why there can be no compulsion in religion). With Hadith you need to be "told" they are divine sayings otherwise you would think they are just words of a normal human being and uninspired.
Most of the past believers had to follow the earlier prophets like Jesus etc.
352 So when Jesus felt their rejection, he said ?Who are my supporters to God?? The disciples said ?We are God?s supporters, we believe in God and we bear witness that we have submitted.?
353 ?Our Lord, we believe in what You have sent down, and followed the messenger, so record us with those who bear witness.?Does that mean we must find now out Jesus's Hadith and follow it? Its clearly means follow him while he is alive.
Read the following few posts for some more evidence against "follow the messenger".
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=16127.msg172522#msg172522
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Peace
http//www.rand.org/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1716/MR1716.pdf
In theory, the study of hadith is a science and, indeed, a highly complex one.
But in practice, the rigorous standards are meaningless, and politics reign
supreme.
Hadith is supposed to be judged by multiple complicated variables, the first of
which is the context and reliability of the hadith
? Who is the original source?
? How long was he or she a Muslim?
? How close was he or she to the Prophet?
? How directly involved was he or she in the event that is being narrated?
? Is there any independent corroboration?
? Which other narrations stem from this person?
? How reliable are they judged to be?
? How intelligent and educated was the person?
? Did the person remember the event or rely on notes?
? Did the person have a vested interest or were they a neutral observer?
? How was this narration passed along?
? Are there gaps in the transmission?
? How reliable are the transmitters?
A separate chain of analysis deals with the substance of the narration
? Is it a saying of the Prophet that is being reported, or an action he performed,
or both?
? If he did a particular thing, one can deduce that this thing is allowed?
? If something was done in his presence by others, and he refrained from
reprimanding them, is it likewise allowed?
? What was the context? For example, might he have been joking?
Finally, there are considerations of principle that allow hadith to be placed in a
hierarchy
? Does the application of a particular hadith benefit the common good, or
just the interests of an individual?
The Hadith Wars 51
? Does it make community life easier or harder?
? Do jurists and community practice agree on the issue, or are they at odds?
When scholars list just ?some of the rules? that apply to the evaluation and
application of hadith, they need seven densely written pages.2
But in practice, no such effort is made to weigh and assess, to consider the circumstances
and origins of a hadith or the credibility of its narrator. In reality,
hadith operates on the level of folk sayings, gaining credibility and popularity
through repetition and pithiness. The Islamic Web sites referred to earlier frequently
mention hadith, frequently mention hadith, but very rarely do they bother even to cite a source or
to say which collection they have drawn a particular hadith from or which version
they used. They simply ?allege? a hadith.This "Science" is extremely subjective and error prone yet people claim that Sahih Hadith are 100% proven Prophet Sayings
• Go through the above list and ask yourself how many of those questions can be answered accurately 200 years after the Prophets death (the time when most Sahih narrations were gathered)
• Many of these Questions are being asked of Dead people
• You have to assume noone lied and got away with it as there were no lie detector tests available during that time
• There are also many contradictions with Science/Logic/Quranic verses within the hadith
In conclusion, not only do they have little Quranic backing but the body of work itself is very unreliable.
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Salam,
Obeying the messenger is obeying the MESSAGE that was sent by God.
EXAMPLE
There is a boss who owns and operates a building with many offices.
The boss is in office A in this building.
The workers are located in various different offices in the building.
The boss has a list of things that he needs the workers to do.
So he sends his assistant (messenger) to the different offices to tell the workers of the tasks they are to perform.
The boss wants the workers to obey his assistant who recites to them the list of tasks by performing them.
There are Three groups of people that work for the boss
There are those who obey the message and perform the tasks without question. They thank the assistant for the information. These workers Ensure that the office runs smoothly.
Some workers disbelieve that this assistant was sent from the boss's office and they refuse to perform the tasks...
But, there are also workers who listened to the message and acknowledged that it was from the boss....
But thinking that the boss prefers his assistant over them and that the assistant was the model worker....
they want to be just like the assistant to find favor in the boss's eye.
So, they begin dressing like the boss's assistant and eating like him and walking like him....
they notice the assistant is right handed so they do everything with their right hand like the assistant....
they pester the assistant for minute details of his life...his likes and dislikes...etc.
This was not what the workers were informed to do.
To make matters worse the ones who mimicked the assistant started demanding that everyone else mimic the assistant as well. This too took up their time and they had even less time to perform the list of tasks.Because they were focusing so much on the assistant they put the message aside.
As you can imagine this caused chaos in the office....
Some refused to perform the tasks.
Some performed the tasks.
And some acknowledged that the list of tasks was from the boss but got so caught up in trying to compete with the assistant for the boss's attention that they DIDNT even perform the tasks that the boss wanted them to do!
There are only so many hours in a day. If you were the boss and had an office to run and your workers behaved this way, who would you fire and who would you keep on as staff? Remember the boss has clients with deadlines to meet, and obligations to live up to. He also has only so much money he can afford to spend on hiring workers. And he can't afford to employ people who won't do the tasks he needs them to.
If it were me,
I would promote the workers who performed their job duties as instructed (especially since they were surrounded by rejecters and time wasters).But I would fire the people who did not follow the instructions, both the ones who flat out rejected and the ones who wasted valuable time doing what I did not tell them to do and who also caused a chaotic work environment by insisting others waste their time as well.
and I would replace them with more of the types of people who ACTUALLY DID THEIR JOB.Salam,
Arnab -
Indeed Arnab, that is the perfect analogy that I have been looking for. May God increase your wisdom. Peace. I wish to compliment what you said with
AND THUS it is that against every prophet We have set up as enemies the evil forces from among humans as well as from among invisible beings that whisper unto one another glittering half-truths meant to delude the mind. But they could not do this unless thy Sustainer had so willed stand, therefore, aloof from them and from all their false imagery!
6112jedi
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Salam,
Thank you soof and dotty
Salam,
Arnab -
Peace Arnab, all
I agree, that was a powerful paralell. This is article material. You should write an article where you use this example/paralell/analogy, or something similar. I think the analogy-part could make a great article.
Let me compliment it also
A few years later, the assistant of the boss leaves the workplace, and the tasks he first bringed the workers will be forgotten by the workers. The task-papers lies on the shelves (just like the quran lies on the shelves of sunni and shia's), and people have totally forgotten the tasks which the assistant (messenger) gave them in the past. The task-papers lies on shelves as mentioned earlier, on all of the tasks that are needed for making the factory work is still there. However, some people start to say that the tasks which their boss gave them in the first place are not complete and detailed, so they start to claim that they need more details in the workplace. Soon new chiefs (scholars) will be born in the company, and everyone of them has a different style/way and tells that this way is the best way to make the company successful. Later the workers in the big company start to disagree, and they divide into different groups. The workers of the company all claim to follow the right chief (scholar), and they are content with the philosophy of their group. The tasks were easy to understand, but every worker was now claiming that they were hard 2 understand, and that they need their chiefs (scholars) to interpret the tasks for them.
The company which once was a great company that had unity among its workers, had great income in the past and produced lots of important food and clothes for the citizens of its country, has now become one of the most backward, divided and chaotic companies/workplaces in the city. The workers of the company goes even further by making new tasks (hadiths) that was never authorized by the assistant (messenger). And absolutely NOT authorized by the BOSS. The Boss of the whole company was on a vacation, and he suddenly returns from his vacation. When he returns, he sees that his workers have forgotten the original tasks (message) and he fires all of them, except the ones who obeyed and followed the tasks which the assistant (messenger) gave them. The ones who had followed the tasks which was written by the boss, got promoted . got higher salary from the boss and also other provisions and rewards for their loyality. But sadly those were few. Most of the workers had disobeyed and followed their own desires and wishful thinking.
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And some acknowledged that the list of tasks was from the boss but got so caught up in trying to compete with the assistant for the boss's attention that they DIDNT even perform the tasks that the boss wanted them to do!
Salam Arnab,
Your example got me thinking........ What about the people that acknowledged the list of tasks, performed them and yet performed more to be like the assisstant?
I ask because this is what I hear a lot from Hadith followers......... as long as they are aware that whatever extra they are doing is not God ordered. They are still obeying God and following Muhammad.
What's your view on this?
Regards
Ramzi
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Salam Arnab,
Your example got me thinking........ What about the people that acknowledged the list of tasks, performed them and yet performed more to be like the assisstant?
I ask because this is what I hear a lot from Hadith followers......... as long as they are aware that whatever extra they are doing is not God ordered. They are still obeying God and following Muhammad.
What's your view on this?
Regards
Ramzi
Salam Ramzi,
The short answer is
?A servant cannot serve two masters; for the servant will either hate the one and love the other, or be devoted to the one and neglect the other. You cannot serve God and materialism.? (Luke 1613)
A more specific answer to your question is this
Using the example of the boss with the workers?.
In the first place we have to remember that if an employer hires someone for a job and sets the hours at say 8 hours a day and is committed to paying that person for each and every hour. The boss intends to fill those hours with work. He doesn?t want to waste his time or money by not filling those hours with work.
So in this example I do not believe that the list of tasks can be performed in less time than estimated by the boss. There will be no time for the workers to focus on being like the assistant.
So one might say to hadith followers
Try doing your job at your work and also have your mind on being EXACTLY like a co-worker at the same time?..
OR
At the end of the day of work?.have you completed every task with enough time to spare (within the working hours) to try to be EXACTLY like a co-worker without neglecting any of your job?
And if they say that they can go home and study being like the co-worker after work, they are not working within the boundaries of the analogy, because, it is only possible to complete the tasks or be like the assistant within the hours that the boss is paying them.
Here are some verses from the Quran
12106
And most of them do not believe with God, unless and (while) they are sharing/taking partners (with Him).
480
And who obeys the messenger, so he obeyed God, and who turned away, so We did not send you on them (as) a protector .
488
Why should you divide yourselves into two groups regarding hypocrites (among you)?
GOD is the one who condemned them because of their own behavior.
Do you want to guide those who are sent astray by GOD?
Whomever GOD sends astray, you can never find a way to guide them.
Salam,
Arnab -
As Salaam Alaikum,
Right now I am not reading the Quran too much, but this just popped up in my head while surfing... (so please don't give me smart comments like , "look it up yourself"
Does the Quran actually ever say, "follow the Prophet Muhammad"?
I ask this because many hadith followers will say we are suppose to obey and FOLLOW the Prophet.
The "follow" part gives them support to say that even if someone claimed to observed the Prophet doing something, it is enough to make it a command for folks. They obligate themselves to doing something based on what they believe the Prophet did, not nessarily commanded.
Does anyone have any insight on this?Peace,
With all due Respect,This is simple.
We are told to obey God and obey rasool. Right?
So.
We are to obey what Rasool tells us - keep in mind that rasool means Messenger and The Message - and that means that Rasool (Muhammad) did everything he was told to do according to The Quran.For example, prophet Muhammad told them O you who believe, when you observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), you shall (1) wash your faces, (2) wash your arms to the elbows, (3) wipe your heads, and (4) wash your feet to the ankles. If you were unclean due to sexual orgasm, you shall bathe. If you are ill, or traveling, or had any digestive excretion (urinary, fecal, or gas), or had (sexual) contact with the women, and you cannot find water, you shall observe the dry ablution (Tayammum) by touching clean dry soil, then rubbing your faces and hands. GOD does not wish to make the religion difficult for you; He wishes to cleanse you and to perfect His blessing upon you, that you may be appreciative.
Now the prophet went home and had a bath. After he washed his ears really good and his nose and his neck. Then he prayed.
Somebody outside his window was watching him so that person wrote that down and wrote this"I saw prophet washed his ears, nose, neck.."
What this person, who was watcing the prophet forgot, is this he didn't ask the prophet why would he wash ears, nose and neck when he had just told them how to perform ablution before a prayer?Had he asked the prophet one simple question"O prophet, why did you wash your ears, your nose and your neck prior to the prayer, when you just told us how we are suppose to perform the ablution before the prayer?"
He might have gotten this answer from a prophet"Because, my friend, i just came from a - let's say Syria - and i was travelling through the desert and there was a sand storm and i was covered with sand, i had to really clean myself and if you watched long enough, you'd see that i cleaned myself properly and then i performed the ablution before the prayer."Of course, this event did not take place and i'm just assuming here, this is just my theory, God knows best but i think this is how the mistake might have happened. They didn't ask the prophet about the important stuff, they spied on him, watched his every move and just kept writing and wriitng and writing and writing. If they asked the prophet more questions, they would be more informed.
Of course, they did bother the prophet a lot and did ask him plenty of questions but they shouldn't write down things they had no knowldge about.
I hope The Exalted God AllPowerful guides me right and gives me more knowldge. I have no idea how i thought of this theory but it keeps hanging out there and it seems possible. God knows best and i hope i didn't do anythign wrong by posting it here.
Peace. jedi