Medieval Arab Swords
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I thought this was very interesting.
DURING the middle ages, the Muslims who fought crusaders with swords of Damascus steel had an edge - a very high-tech one. Their sabres contained carbon nanotubes.
From about AD 900 to AD 1750, Damascus sabres were forged from Indian steel called wootz. Peter Paufler of the Technical University of Dresden, Germany, and colleagues studied samples of a 17th-century sword under an electron microscope and found clear evidence of carbon nanotubes and even nanowires.
The researchers think that the sophisticated process of forging and annealing the steel formed the nanotubes and the nanowires, and could explain the amazing mechanical properties of the swords (Nature, vol 444, p 286).
Linky
Damascus swords, first made in the eighth century A.D., are renowned for their complex surface patterns and sharpness. According to legend, the blades can cut a piece of silk in half as it falls to the ground and maintain their edge after cleaving through stone, metal, or even other swords. But since the techniques for making these swords have been lost for hundreds of years, no one is sure exactly why these swords are so exceptional.
Now studies of the swords' molecular structure are uncovering the tiny structures that may explain these properties.
Peter Paufler, a crystallographer at Technical University in Dresden, Germany, and his colleagues had previously found tiny nanowires and nanotubes when they used an electron microscope to examine samples from a Damascus blade made in the 17th century. Today in the journal Nature, the teams reports that it has also discovered carbon nanotubes in the swordthe first nanotubes ever found in steel, Paufler says. The nanotubes, which are remarkably strong, run through the blade's softer steel, likely making it more resilient. <snip>
More here
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I think it's the D&D that makes us interested in weapons my elf friend P I was thinking I really should start subscribing to a bunch of these sites, they always cut the good info out for the freeloaders...
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Ah yes! I forgot we still need our covers to be thought cool! ;D Sorry folks...this isn't the thread you are looking for, move along waving jedi fingers
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Interesting..
So could this have been the main reason why the crusaders were pwned* by Saladin and his army?
what's d&d?
It's a Satanic role-playing game. >
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So could this have been the main reason why the crusaders were pwned* by Saladin and his army?
Sure looks like they would have had an advantage, though personally I think they also used the holy hand grenades of antioch in a combo move (which they previously swiped from these crusaders using their space age weaponry). "Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it." Amen."
This sword this is really interesting, though. How'd they make carbon nano tubes, anyway?
It was in the way the steel was forged
The blades were generally made from metal ingots prepared in India using special recipes, which probably put just the right amount of carbon and other impurities into the iron.By following these recipes and following specific forging techniques, "craftsmen ended up making nanotubes more than 400 years ago," Paufler and his colleagues write. When these blades were nearly finished, blacksmiths would etch them with acid. This brought out the wavy light and dark lines that make Damascus swords easy to recognize. But it could also give the swords their sharpness, Paufler says. Because carbon nanotubes are resistant to acid, they would protect the nanowires, he theorizes. After etching, many of these nanostructures could stick out from the blade's edge, giving it tiny saw-like teeth.
Metalsmiths in India and Sri Lanka perhaps as early as 300 BC developed a new technique known as wootz steel that produced a high-carbon steel of unusually high purity. Glass was added to a mixture of iron and charcoal and then heated. The glass would act as a flux and bind to other impurities in the mixture, allowing them to rise to the surface and leave a more pure steel when the mixture cooled. Thousands of steel making sites were found in Samanalawewa area in Sri Lanka that made high carbon steel (Juleff, 1996). These steel making furnaces were built facing western monsoon winds and wind turbulance and suction was used to create heat in the furnace. Steel making sites in Sri Lanka have been dated to 300 BC using carbon dating technology. The technique propagated very slowly through the world, reaching modern-day Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan around 900 AD, and then the Middle East around 1000 AD.
This process was further refined in the middle east, either using locally produced steels, or by re-working wootz purchased from India. The exact process remains unknown, but allowed carbides to precipitate out as micro particles arranged in sheets or bands within the body of a blade. The carbides are far harder than the surrounding low carbon steel, allowing the swordsmith to make an edge which would cut hard materials with the precipitated carbides, while the bands of softer steel allowed the sword as a whole to remain tough and flexible.
The banded carbide precipitates appear in the blade as a swirling pattern. By manipulating the ingot of steel in a certain way during forging, various intentional patterns could be induced in the steel. The most common of these was a pattern of lateral bands, often called 'Mohammed's Ladder', most likely formed by cutting or forging notches into the surface of the ingot, then forging it into the blade shape (this is the method Pendray (below) used to reproduce the pattern). The notches resulted in different degrees of work hardening between top and bottom, and thus controlled the size of the carbide particles in the surface at those areas, and thus the appearance of the bands.
Linky
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The swords from late 8th century onwards seem to be a Central Asian design (curved shape, similar to samuri swords that are made for severing limbs - albielt that Arab swords are double-edged) as opposed to the swords that seem to have been used by the Sahaabah, which seem to be like Gladiator swords, perhaps Roman inspired.
This is consistant with the fact that Nabataeans were highly inspired by the Romans/Greeks, so it may only be a fair assumption that early Arabs were using double-edged straight sowrds till the 7th century AD.
Perhaps a study of Central Asian or even East Asian sword making would also reveal the techniques the Damascus sword makers might have adopted/developed.
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The early arab swords they say were roman inspired but the latter ones were identical to european double edged ones. The damascene process (pattern welding) is also used for katana's but I think there was a difference in the steel and the other additional processes used to get the original blend right.
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"latter ones were identical to european double edged ones"
Are you sure? I will try to reveiew some of the material on weaponry that I have (I have to get my hands on it first)... To my knowledge, the curved shape that is considered the chanracteristic of Arabic swords, actually comes from central asian influence (later called the Turk region).
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It was in one of the first links I tried when searching for more info, don't know how accurate it is
The swords used by Arab warriors during the 12th and 13th centuries were almost always straight, double-edged weapons nearly identical to European swords. It is not until near the end of the 13th century that curved, single-edged blades are generally introduced and they only slowly become the common weapon of Arab warriors. In the 15th century, Arabs began to use highly curved swords such as the scimitar shown below.
I read in wiki regarding the earlier swords being similar to roman swords.
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I understand. You are correct about early Arabian swords (especially from uptil the 8th century) were straight and double-edged. They got curved quite later under Central Asian influence. European swords were inspired from the latter...
From what I know, even the name Excalibre comes from the Arabic "khalib", that itself is a Central Asian or Anatolian inspired word. Go figure
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I own a Katana and a Roman Gladiator sword mock-ups...
From looking at the pictures of the sword attributed to Khalid bin Waleed, one can't but notice the hellenistic influence, albeit the handle.
Obviously, the Scimitar is much like the Katana, but the curve is a lot more profound, which makes it more formidable when it comes to "dismembering" the opponent... Not very helpful if you are also trying to kick and box along with the sword fight.
For some reason, I have always found the Scimitar a bit clumsy, but it was a practical weapon for its wielder. The metal forming and annealing processes were also quite sophisticated considering the times they were made in.
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From what I know, even the name Excalibre comes from the Arabic "khalib", that itself is a Central Asian or Anatolian inspired word. Go figure
Wow didn't know that, what does khalib mean? Water nymph?
I own a Katana and a Roman Gladiator sword mock-ups...
I think we can safely include you in the group that must never be named, as in this thread. I dual wield a Katana +7 and a Wakizashi myself, just not in RL
Obviously, the Scimitar is much like the Katana, but the curve is a lot more profound, which makes it more formidable when it comes to "dismembering" the opponent... Not very helpful if you are also trying to kick and box along with the sword fight.
For some reason, I have always found the Scimitar a bit clumsy, but it was a practical weapon for its wielder. The metal forming and annealing processes were also quite sophisticated considering the times they were made in.
I agree with you, though I would still consider a dude with a scimitar, and who knew how to use it, quite dangerous. Especially if he's wearing black robes.
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Tempered steel eh, thanks for the info. I'm quite hooked on vr more so than rl at times and just sometimes it puts me in confusing situations where I'm trying to get at the reload button but there isn't one...and I realise life is tough ;D
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I'm quite hooked on vr more so than rl at times and just sometimes it puts me in confusing situations where I'm trying to get at the reload button but there isn't one...and I realise life is tough
Don't worry. It goes both ways... some people look for the "any key" lol
