Question about ..
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AOA guys
OK this question has probably been asked a million times but does the article on alcohol on the freeminds website say that it's fine to drink alcohol ?
You're right, and you've asked the same question before... atleast a couple of times from that million. Twice on the same thread.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12684.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12684.msg104659#msg104659Peace
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AOA guys
OK this question has probably been asked a million times but does the article on alcohol on the freeminds website say that it's fine to drink alcohol ? The article is quite convincing though!
Hello
Actually i was thinking that the article is right based on the fact that we can't claim somthing is haram unless Allah claimed as such
in the case of Khamr, yes it has to be Haram because
if A is called Haram
and B is described as being part of A
then B is haram
in the Quran we read that all Ithim are haram and we read that Khamr is described as Ithim hence it has to be haram and the article on FM has to be wrong
Salam
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Drinking alcohol can not be haram for several reasons.
If something is haram than Quran tells us the possible punishment. Punishment can be earthly or divinely. Quran talks of both.Haram is killing of a human. Possible punishment - Money....
There is no discrepancy in the Quran.
We are told to avoid contatc prayers when drunk... if alcohol is forbiden why bring it up at all in this aya???
Little vitamine C is good for humans. Little alcohol is good for humans.
Too much Vitmine C can be damaging for humans, to much alcohol can be damaging for humans.But we dont make Vitamine C haram do we?
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Peace
Again it all depends how you want to take the word "avoid it" ... and why vitamin C was not mentioned in the quran but alcohol was ... what are the differences in the two, not only the similarities.
Edit
Welcome Back AB! welcome
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Drinking alcohol can not be haram for several reasons.
If something is haram than Quran tells us the possible punishment. Punishment can be earthly or divinely. Quran talks of both.Haram is killing of a human. Possible punishment - Money....
There is no discrepancy in the Quran.
We are told to avoid contatc prayers when drunk... if alcohol is forbiden why bring it up at all in this aya???
Little vitamine C is good for humans. Little alcohol is good for humans.
Too much Vitmine C can be damaging for humans, to much alcohol can be damaging for humans.But we dont make Vitamine C haram do we?
Peace,
I'll not go into the discussion anymore as I have answered ammar enough already, and I believe AB again makes a real good point. But Dion, i wanted to ask you. I have studied Biochemistry, but 'little bit of alchol is good' theory never came across my table.
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Hello all,
Alcohol consumption CAN be devastating if used promiscously but no doubt has its benefits to certain extent.
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Welcome Back AB! welcome
Thank you
cheers
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hi bro....can u post the relevant verses...cuz it could really be quite conclusive...i think! -)
Hello mate
it was a comment by sister Myr on FI web site and I say that it is irrefutable so I'm not going to waste my time debating it here with those who say it is allowed in lil amounts
Salam Ahmed, all,
I tend to disagree with you on some of your statements but for now I would like to tackle item # 7 and your claim about alcohol/fermentated drinks (khamr) in the light of the Quran. This is the research that I did and shared on Free-minds a while ago, about the khamr in Quran and why I believe it is really "forbidden"-). This is what I wrote (in green)
....Let me explain why I believe the khamr is not allowed or is "haram"
I am sure you would agree with me if I say if A is equal to B and B is equal to C, A would be equal to C , wouldn't you?
Now in Quran, we are told in verse 733 that "hurima" (made haram) any "ithm". And in verse 2219 , we are told there is "ithm kabeer" (BIG ithm) in khamr. So what would be the logical conclusion? Please note that I did not translate any words but kept them in Arabic to avoid shifting the subject through all kinds of elaboration and philosophy around the translations we tend to see on this forum.
Peace. Myr.
and i conceded to her without arguning at all, i was some how blinded not to see 2219
Salam
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ahmedbahgat wrote
it was a comment by sister Myr on FI web site and I say that it is irrefutable so I'm not going to waste my time debating it here with those who say it is allowed in lil amounts....
and i conceded to her without arguning at all, i was some how blinded not to see 2219
yes...that's a strong argument against consumption of alcohol! -)
what i would like to add is that the fact that there is in it "ithmun kabeerun" is in itself enough of a deterrent...who would want to be counted among indulgers in "ithmun kabeerun"!
...and also...in it is "manafiAAu lilnnasi", and not "khayr"! -)
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Peace
Wow I never thought of it that way either. Thanks Bro AB for posting Sis Myr's explanation. It sheds a new clarity on the subject.
God Bless you both
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....Let me explain why I believe the khamr is not allowed or is "haram"
I am sure you would agree with me if I say if A is equal to B and B is equal to C, A would be equal to C , wouldn't you?
Now in Quran, we are told in verse 733 that "hurima" (made haram) any "ithm". And in verse 2219 , we are told there is "ithm kabeer" (BIG ithm) in khamr. So what would be the logical conclusion? Please note that I did not translate any words but kept them in Arabic to avoid shifting the subject through all kinds of elaboration and philosophy around the translations we tend to see on this forum.
In 2219, intoxication/alcohol is NOT a prohibition since it clearly mentions the benefit/advantage. If anything has some good usage, it cannot be prohibited but rather restrictive or conditional. This is plain common sense. 733 has nothing to do with alcoholism.
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danish wrote
In 2219, intoxication/alcohol is NOT a prohibition since it clearly mentions the benefit/advantage. If anything has some good usage, it cannot be prohibited but rather restrictive or conditional. This is plain common sense. 733 has nothing to do with alcoholism.first in it is "ithmun kabeerun"...an indulger in alochol would be an indulger in "ithmun kabeerun"!
not necessarily "good usage"....maybe plain usage! -)
how is alcohol beneficial? -)
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first in it is "ithmun kabeerun"...an indulger in alochol would be an indulger in "ithmun kabeerun"!
not necessarily "good usage"....maybe plain usage! -)
second in it is also "manafioo linnasay" (benefit for people)...an indulger in alcohol would be an indulger in "manaf" (benefit/good/use/advantage). You are attempting to stress upon one half of the verse while neglecting the other.
how is alcohol beneficial? -)
medicinal (pharmaceutical, coronary/urinary, surgery), food/confectionaries (taste), stress/pain/mood (cuts, bruises, body/facial clensing, relaxation), etc. and I'm sure there are many. Alcohol doesn't mean to consume just hard liquor all day long and drop dead, and certainly doesn't mean to become habitual, hence restrictive and conditional.
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Peace Bro Dan
food/confectionaries (taste)
alcohol tastes like as* yuck
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danish wrote
second in it is also "manafioo linnasay" (benefit for people)...an indulger in alcohol would be an indulger in "manaf" (benefit/good/use/advantage).nafa need not have an inherent quality of being "good"...i already pointed out "nafa" is different from "khayr"! -)
if v have an equal share (50 %) in some profit...
and u kill me/cheat me (or vice versa) so that u have all of it (the profit) to urself...u will have 100 % profit to urself....
is it "good profit" or "bad profit"! -)or say i have 100 bucks on me...
and somebody robs me...the person benefits by 100 bucks...
is that a "good benefit" or a "bad benefit"?...likewise nafa does not inherently mean "good"...."benefit/use/advantage"....yes...but u are attempting to confuse "nafa" and "good"! -)
You are attempting to stress upon one half of the verse while neglecting the other.
could u elaborate? -)
medicinal (pharmaceutical, coronary/urinary, surgery), food/confectionaries (taste), stress/pain/mood (cuts, bruises, body/facial clensing, relaxation), etc. and I'm sure there are many. Alcohol doesn't mean to consume just hard liquor all day long and drop dead, and certainly doesn't mean to become habitual, hence restrictive and conditional.
cool...not so sure about the taste part...and maybe some other too...but it can wait -)
...so how much should an individual consume to "benefit" from it...and under what conditions? -)
how is gambling or "almaysir" beneficial? -)
do u think god's assertion that these contain "ithmun kabeerun" and the following verses
590 O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper.
591 Satan's plan is (but) to excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah, and from prayer will ye not then abstain?
...are of any relevance to the issue of permission and restriction? -)
...also from where have u gathered that "restrictive and conditional" consumption is beneficial/useful....could u provide the words so that i may benefit? -)
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danish wrote
second in it is also "manafioo linnasay" (benefit for people)...an indulger in alcohol would be an indulger in "manaf" (benefit/good/use/advantage).thegod wrote
nafa need not have an inherent quality of being "good"...i already pointed out "nafa" is different from "khayr"! -)
if v have an equal share (50 %) in some profit...
and u kill me/cheat me (or vice versa) so that u have all of it (the profit) to urself...u will have 100 % profit to urself....
is it "good profit" or "bad profit"! -)or say i have 100 bucks on me...
and somebody robs me...the person benefits by 100 bucks...
is that a "good benefit" or a "bad benefit"?...likewise nafa does not inherently mean "good"...."benefit/use/advantage"....yes...but u are attempting to confuse "nafa" and "good"! -)
Boy you sure give fanciful illustrations. Strictly speaking, "nafa" means profit or gain. Anything that is received or given as profit/gain is a direct representation of being beneficial/advantageous/good/use. A profit/gain is never used in negative renderings. Cheating, robbing, killing, etc., is not a profit/gain but a "negative deed" or a "criminal act". There's no such thing as "bad profit or bad benefit".
Danish wrote You are attempting to stress upon one half of the verse while neglecting the other.
thegod wrote # could u elaborate? -)
It is simple common sense that needs no elaboration. Part of the verse stresses the "bad" side of intoxication while the other half the "good" side, although the "bad" side outweighs the "good" side. That does not conclude a prohibition. Example given below.
thegod wrote...so how much should an individual consume to "benefit" from it...and under what conditions? -)
There's no set amount or volume of consumption and conditions are circumstantial on individual cases. Knowledge, experience and maturity are the key words.
how is gambling or "almaysir" beneficial? -)
In similar respect to alcohol.
do u think god's assertion that these contain "ithmun kabeerun" and the following verses
590 O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper.
591 Satan's plan is (but) to excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah, and from prayer will ye not then abstain?
...are of any relevance to the issue of permission and restriction? -)
...also from where have u gathered that "restrictive and conditional" consumption is beneficial/useful....could u provide the words so that i may benefit? -)
First you deliberate 2219 by quoting and stressing upon half the verse and then collaborate 590/91 to conclude that intoxication and gambling are prohibited. 590/91 is weighted on the first part of 2219, not the second part. If this weren't the case, then there lies either a major contradiction or a meaningless 2219 with respect to 590/91. If I were to mention that "", does not mean that sex is altogether prohibited but is restrictive and conditional. Do you understand what I am expressing.
