Is hell forever?
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Please read my article on Heaven and Hell, it is still a work in progress
http//19.org/index.php?id=91,420,0,0,1,0
Peace
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Verses 537; 2222; 3220 state that the deniers will want to exit Gehenna, but they will never be able to do so.
I think that is the exact qoute from Arnold in his article.
As long as earth and heavens the same, we'll remain either in heaven or hell. But, too bad (for the unbelievers, that is), "the deniers will want to exit Gehenna, but they will never be able to do so."
God's laws never change. And in God the believers trust.
I won't reply after this.
salam. -
peace Aimi,
You misunderstood the verse. It says the DENIERS will never be able to leave hell. But if they repent and change their ways, they will be able to leave.
There is a verse that talks about people rising from the fire and going towards paradise (389 or something...I'll look for it...again). -
Peace and greetings.
Dear phoenix1,
You misunderstood the meaning of deniers according to context in 389. Deniers are the disbelievers of current world and not hell dwellers. Current disbelievers have chance to improve and receive mercy from their Lord in this world and not in hell.
Chapter 3 verses 86 to 90,
How can God guide a people who have rejected after believing, and they witnessed that the messenger is true, and the clarity had come to them? God does not guide the wicked people. To these the punishment will be that God?s curse will be upon them as well as that of the Angels and the people all together! Eternally they will abide in it, the retribution will not be lightened for them, nor will they be reprieved.Except those who repent after this and make amends, then God is Forgiver, Merciful.Those who have rejected after their belief then increased in rejection, their repentance will not be accepted, they are the strayers.
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You may also check this article on the subject
http//19.org/index.php?id=14,176,0,0,1,0
Peace,
Edip -
peace Abrar,
I don't think it was 389 I was thinking of. I'll have to search for the verse.
According to my understanding, hell is experienced right here on earth in this life. So deniers are hell dwellers. The verse Aimi quoted also said "the deniers will not be able to exist gehenna" (if she was quoting a verse at all). -
Peace and greetings,
Dear Edip Uksel,
In your mentioned article you have stated "Then, the alternative is obvious total annihilation, ontological extinction together with Hell. Those programs with free choice that chose to corrupt themselves with the worst diabolic viruses (such as associating partners with God or killing an innocent program) will be sentenced to an eternal punishment after resurrection they will experience a period of diagnosis, justice, regret and then with the creation of a new earth and heaven, they will be hurled to non existence together with Hell."
Non existance is mercy and this is your explanation of how rejectors will attain peace and rest through total annihialation. You have misunderstood the concept of Death which is a state of Barzakh or cold sleep according to the Quranic definition of the word death. You perhaps do not understand the difference between soul and matter. Matter can perish into nothing as described by the God in Quran but souls have been ordered by the God not to perish. Where In Quran does God say that Jinns, angels, human souls, the spirit are destined to perish like matter ? These essence of lives are ordered by the God not to perish into nothingness like matter but have a destiny and future that is eternity as promised by the God starting from the time of creation of these entities. But their etenal existance is dependent on the command and orders of the God who is The Eternal, The First, The Last. These entities(angels, the spirit, Jinns, human souls) have a begining because they came into existance from the "be" command of the God but nowhere in Quran, the God has promised to perish them into nothingness. Quran does not contradict itself. It is your understanding which is finite and limited that gives rise to conjectures.
Chapter 78 verse 40 the God says, "I have warned you of a retribution which is close, the Day when man will look at what he has brought forth and the rejecter will Say ?I wish I were dust!?
Chapter 4 verse 56
"Those who have rejected Our signs, We will admit them to a Fire. Every time their skins are cooked, We replace them with other skin that they may taste the retribution. God is Noble, Wise."
Chapter 4 verse 93
"And whoever kills a believer intentionally, then his reward shall be Hell, eternally abiding therein, and God will be angry with him, and curse him, and for him is prepared a great retribution."
Chapter 4 verse 121
"For these, their abode shall be Hell, they will find no escape from it."
Chapter 4 verse 169
"Except to the path of Hell, in it they will abide eternally. For God this is very easy."
Chapter 7 verse 41
"They will have Hell as an abode, and from above them will be barriers. It is thus We recompense the wicked."
Chapter 17 verse 97
"..... their abode will be Hell. Every time it dies down, We increase for them the fire. "
Chapter 40 verse 3
"Forgiver of sins, and acceptor of repentance, severe in retribution, with ability to reach. There is no god other than Him, to Him is the ultimate destiny."
Chapter 21 verse 98
"Both you and what you serve (Jinns) besides God shall be fuel for Hell
; you will enter it."The unvieling of new heaven and earth will be for paradise and hell will be out of bounds in a realm of eternal torture.
Men and Jinn shall be fuel for hell for eternity. According to our current concepts something burns out eventually but in hell men and jinn will burn for eternity. Do not try to give excuses by perishing into nothing because this is what the disbelievers will say that it would have been better if we were dust and have perished like physical matter of the previous universe. Too much reliance on human emotions without consideration of the faculty of knowledge gives rise to philosophical jargons that leads to such explanations as you have given.
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Salam,
Hell is eternal as long as heavens and earth exist (which may be anything from millions to billions of years).
Also, my view is that this planet will be Hell for the disbelievers as the believers are carried away and the Earth is altered to become a fiery inferno, a barren wasteland.
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Peace and greetings,
Dear Layth,
Hell will be just like a lowest pit with bounded space to torture the unbelievers.They will have no place to rest as we imagine in space bound by heaven and earth. In my view paradise is already existing and on the day of judgement it will be brought near by unvieling (not formation or contruction) of new heaven and earth which will unviel the hidden paradise close to God's throne whereas hell will be the lowest pit out of bounds of pardise. hell will be kindled on the day of Judgement. Those heaven and earth will be eternal.
In Chapter 81 verse 11 to 13.
11.And when the sky is unvieled("Kusheitat" means "unvieled" and not "removed" as in the progressive muslim translation)
12.And when Hell is ignited.
13.And when Paradise is made near.In Chapter 53 verse 7 to 19.
"7.While he(muhammad) was at the highest horizon.
8.Then he drew nearer by moving down.
9.Until he became as near as two bow-lengths or nearer.
10.He then conveyed the inspiration to His servant what was to be revealed.
11.The heart did not invent what it saw.
12.Do you doubt him in what he saw?
13.And indeed, he saw him in another descent.
14.At the ultimate point.
15.Near it is the eternal Paradise.
16.The whole place was overwhelmed.
17.The eyes did not waver, nor go blind.
18.He has seen from the great signs of his Lord.In Chapter 101 verse 9
"9.His destiny is the lowest.
10.And how would you know what it is?
11.A blazing Fire."In Chapter 14 verse 48
"The Day the Earth is replaced with another Earth, as are the heavens, and they will appear before God, the One, the Irresistible."
Earth and heaven of that world are already built but they will be unvieled on judgement day by replacent of current heaven and earth which will be destroyed.
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Peace and greetings,
Dear guest,
The God is The Eternal means He was always Eternal, is always Eternal and will always be Eternal. The God is The First and The Last . These are His exclusive attributes and no one can have them. Other creations like jinns, human souls, angels and the spirit had a begining when they began so they cannot have the attribute "The First".
Eternity of these entities is dependent on the "Be" command of the God. He created them with "be" command so their eternity is also dependent on the "be" command of the God. When something has a begining even if it lasts for eternity it cannot be The Eternal because there was a time before the begining of those things.
The God is The Eternal, The First, The Last. Nothing can ever have these attributes. -
Peace abrar, you say ?hell will be the lowest pit out of bounds of pardise?. I recall a verse that says people of paradise will talk to the people of hell and the hell people will ask the people of paradise let some of your food flow down to hell. How does "out of bound" fit in? I know of a boundry of seperation but not out of bound.
You also say ?The God is The Eternal means He was always Eternal?. Are you equating The Eternal = Eternal? What is your definition.
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Peace TheNabi, by your definition, I am assuming your answer to my question is a ?No?. This implies that hell, men, and anything else cannot possess the eternal attribute. Then the question is how long will hell last? Is it from creation to forever? How is forever related to al-Aakhir (the Last)?
I do not have any problem with the length of punishment simply because The God tells us upfront that such is the punishment for such crime.
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Peace and greetings,
Dear Guest,
Yes I have also read the verse about people of hell talking to people of paradise for the flow of food. Remember people of paradise will have full access to everything, even to people of hell even though they will be out of bounds of paradise in lowest pit. Hell according to Quran seem to be a prison of enclosure by barriers to keep it isolated from the universe of paradise.
Chapter 7 verse 41
"They will have Hell as an abode, and from above them will be barriers. It is thus We recompense the wicked."
The Eternal cannot be defined by counting mathematically. But just eternal can always be defined because from first day of paradise you can keep on counting to eternity which will always remain finite no matter how long you live. You would be able to have a calender for life in paradise even if it continues forever so it remains finite and mathematically calculated. You begin counting from first day of paradise and keep counting, it would always be a number. The Eternal cannot be defined by counting.
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Anyone see the Robin Williams movie "What Dreams May Come"????
Me personally, this is what I believe Hell to be.
A self-inflicted punishment, knowing that you spent your years rejecting God, rejecting your provider, rejecting your protector.
And there really is no way out of this, the rejectors will lament on this mistake forever. For me this punishment is much more severe than burning.
Think about it, when you realise you've made a grave mistake you have a burning sensation inside, like drinking hot water.
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Wow! Thanks for all the replies. A lot of different opinions out there. Phoenix also seems to have a problem with eternal hell like I do. I haven't got around to reading all the recommended articles but I certainly will soon.
I understand that the concept of eternity is not something humans can understand, us being finite beings with finite minds and not infinite beings able to grasp the concept of infinity and eternity. I believe the descriptions of heaven, hell, angels, jinn etc in the Quran to be metaphorical for we cannot understand those concepts in this life because we haven't experienced anything that comes remotely close to them.
But to quote TheNabi,
By "eternal" I take it that there has been no beginning. In other words God has had to always been .
How can hell be eternal? It had to have a beginning, right? It couldn't have existed forever. Only God exists eternally.
I know the Quran talks about people being in hell forever but this still doesn't jibe with me for the reasons I stated in my first post. God also says somewhere in the Quran (I don't know where) that He rewards with more than what a person is due but punishes with only what a person deserves and not more than that.
Am I right?So existing forevermore in a state of hell seems contradictory. At some point or the other, a person would have "paid for his sins" (so to speak) and then remaining in a state of hell would become "unfair", don't you think?
And I do know that only God knows what absolute and correct justice is and we don't, but I can't get my head round this eternal hell business...
