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  4. Alif Laam Meem

Alif Laam Meem

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • M Offline
    M Offline
    maxq
    wrote on last edited by
    #6

    Oh man now this is really interesting!! I just read wikipedia, and it mentions that Hamiduddin Farahi also used a similar interpretation! And he did use the Qabalic symbolism.

    http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muqatta'at

    Seems this may very well be the key to cracking the code! But it needs further study!!

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    • M Offline
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      maxq
      wrote on last edited by
      #7

      Another one! Chapter 38

      Saad in Arabic imples Saadiq or Full of Truth! And the Phoenician symbol is Papyrus Plant.

      Hence,

      This Book (Written on Papyrus) is Full of Truth! But nay, the deniers are lost in false pride and opposition for the sake of opposition. Hence, they split their own personalities forcing themselves into maintaining double standards in life, like flakes of papyrus that split! (?Shiqaq? = Opposition, schism, splitting, split-personality. Double standards; since denial of a reality does not make it disappear).

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      • U Offline
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        unknownuser
        wrote on last edited by
        #8

        Salam maxq,

        Excellent to see such an in-depth examination of the semitic languages!

        And a very good thought on alif-lam-meem.

        However, I think one must keep in mind the common definitions of the word as accepted in the different languages.
        Then we can compare the accepted definitions with the Phoenician in order to "fine tune" our understanding of the word.

        Let's look at alif-lam-meem.

        In Hebrew alif-lam-meem is defined as
        (strong's numbers 0481 and 0482, and Gesenius)

        1. to bind, to be bound (as in the tongue-to be silent)
          a. (Niphal)
        2. to be dumb
        3. to be bound
          b. (Piel) binding (part.)
        4. in silence, silent
        5. to be solitary, forsaken, widowed

        In Arabic alif-lam meem is defined as
        (Hans Wehr page 29, Lane's Lexicon vol 1 pg 119)

        1. to be in pain or suffer

        These two meanings are pretty different but one can see that in both cases the word doesn't suggest something pleasant.

        If you look at alif lam meem in Phoenician one could interpret it in a way that is somewhat consistant with the meanings in Hebrew and Arabic (in the sense that this word is not something one would consider pleasant)

        I would also alter the meanings of the ancient hebrew symbols somewhat, to be the following
        (source is ancient-Hebrew.org)

        Alif -> Phoenician Symbol = Ox = This is a picture of the head of an ox. The ox was the strongest and most versatile animals among the Hebrews livestock. The ox was used to pull carts or a plow, it provided meat and leather and it was one of the animals used in sacrifices. This animal was the "all" powerful and "all" versatile animal of the Hebrews.

        The strength of the ox is used for hauling and pulling.

        Laam -> Phoenician Symbol = Shepherd staff = The Hebrews raised sheep for wool, food, leather and milk. The Hebrew shepherd always carried a staff which could be used as a weapon to protect the flock from predators as well as to discipline the sheep. The staff also had a bent end that could be used to pull a "lamb".

        The staff is seen as the authority and protection of the shepherd over his flock. The kings scepter comes from this imagery.

        Meem -> Phoenician Symbol = Water= The picture is of the waves of water on the sea. There is no English word derived from this letter, but, our letter "M" was derived from this letter.

        The sea was seen by the Hebrews as a mighty and chaotic (from the storms) place.

        The main difference would be that I would interpret the meem to mean "chaos" or something similiar.

        Thanks maxq!
        Excellent work!

        Salam,
        Arnab

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        • M Offline
          M Offline
          maxq
          wrote on last edited by
          #9

          Better yet!! Chapter 68

          By The Inkpot and Pen, like a Fish in Water, (and the Word the Pen Traces like a fish swims its course!)
          You (O Messenger), by the blessing of your Lord, are not one for whom reality is hidden.

          In arabic, also represents the inkpot btw... but it does make sense from the Phoenician symbol since we see that the prophet Jonah is mentioned! Jonah and the fish that almost had him!! Wow, this is amazing!

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          • M Offline
            M Offline
            maxq
            wrote on last edited by
            #10

            This interpretation is definitely possible. Can you present a rendition of 21-2 so we can examin this further?

            Salam maxq,

            Excellent to see such an in-depth examination of the semitic languages!

            And a very good thought on alif-lam-meem.

            However, I think one must keep in mind the common definitions of the word as accepted in the different languages.
            Then we can compare the accepted definitions with the Phoenician in order to "fine tune" our understanding of the word.

            Let's look at alif-lam-meem.

            In Hebrew alif-lam-meem is defined as
            (strong's numbers 0481 and 0482, and Gesenius)

            1. to bind, to be bound (as in the tongue-to be silent)
              a. (Niphal)
            2. to be dumb
            3. to be bound
              b. (Piel) binding (part.)
            4. in silence, silent
            5. to be solitary, forsaken, widowed

            In Arabic alif-lam meem is defined as
            (Hans Wehr page 29, Lane's Lexicon vol 1 pg 119)

            1. to be in pain or suffer

            These two meanings are pretty different but one can see that in both cases the word doesn't suggest something pleasant.

            If you look at alif lam meem in Phoenician one could interpret it in a way that is somewhat consistant with the meanings in Hebrew and Arabic (in the sense that this word is not something one would consider pleasant)

            I would also alter the meanings of the ancient hebrew symbols somewhat, to be the following
            (source is ancient-Hebrew.org)

            Alif -> Phoenician Symbol = Ox = This is a picture of the head of an ox. The ox was the strongest and most versatile animals among the Hebrews livestock. The ox was used to pull carts or a plow, it provided meat and leather and it was one of the animals used in sacrifices. This animal was the "all" powerful and "all" versatile animal of the Hebrews.

            The strength of the ox is used for hauling and pulling.

            Laam -> Phoenician Symbol = Shepherd staff = The Hebrews raised sheep for wool, food, leather and milk. The Hebrew shepherd always carried a staff which could be used as a weapon to protect the flock from predators as well as to discipline the sheep. The staff also had a bent end that could be used to pull a "lamb".

            The staff is seen as the authority and protection of the shepherd over his flock. The kings scepter comes from this imagery.

            Meem -> Phoenician Symbol = Water= The picture is of the waves of water on the sea. There is no English word derived from this letter, but, our letter "M" was derived from this letter.

            The sea was seen by the Hebrews as a mighty and chaotic (from the storms) place.

            The main difference would be that I would interpret the meem to mean "chaos" or something similiar.

            Thanks maxq!
            Excellent work!

            Salam,
            Arnab

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            • M Offline
              M Offline
              maxq
              wrote on last edited by
              #11

              Would it be "This is a Protection of your Assets from Chaos?" ... not from the root meaning perhaps... but should hey be taken as words or symbols... that's the question

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              • U Offline
                U Offline
                unknownuser
                wrote on last edited by
                #12

                Salam maqx,

                That's interesting and definitely possible.

                My thoughts were leaning more towards "strong teaching in chaos" in the abstract
                or more along the lines of your original thoughts but replacing "water" with "rought water"
                such as goading the ox through rough waters.

                Salam,
                Arnab

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                • M Offline
                  M Offline
                  maxq
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #13

                  Just studied the Heiroglyph and its transition to Phoenician

                  The symbol for Mem in Ancient Egyptian, and it is indeed "water" and not sea. Water ws the bread and butter for them, and I think the same goes for Phoenicians. They were in the Lebanon area, so a sea strom is unlikely. Rather an earthquake would be more of a problem for them.

                  So I think my interpretation is correct as well.

                  Also, another interesting point. Ha or "H" as in Kaaf, Haa, Yaa, Aeen, Saad means window, or Jubilation of BIRTH!!! Both Jesus and John-Baptist are spoken of in this Chapter (Maryam)

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                  • U Offline
                    U Offline
                    unknownuser
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #14

                    salam maxq,

                    That's a good point. Especially when you point out the Egyptian meem is "water" It would make more sense that water would be something favorable as opposed to unfavorable.
                    Very interesting.

                    Salam,
                    Arnab

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                    • M Offline
                      M Offline
                      maxq
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #15

                      Thanks Arnab,

                      Further, extending the concept of K H Y 'A tS based on the context of Chapter 19 (Mariam)

                      Kaaf -> branch/palm-of-hand
                      Haa -> Birth
                      Yaa -> Arm/Extending/Extension/Reaching-Out
                      'Aeen -> Eye/Vision
                      tSaad -> Papyrus/Plant/Truth

                      Hence Kaaf Haa Yaa 'Aeen tSaad -means- A Branch's Sprouting Extends the Vision of Truth (of the Scripture)

                      Just studied the Heiroglyph and its transition to Phoenician

                      The symbol for Mem in Ancient Egyptian, and it is indeed "water" and not sea. Water ws the bread and butter for them, and I think the same goes for Phoenicians. They were in the Lebanon area, so a sea strom is unlikely. Rather an earthquake would be more of a problem for them.

                      So I think my interpretation is correct as well.

                      Also, another interesting point. Ha or "H" as in Kaaf, Haa, Yaa, Aeen, Saad means window, or Jubilation of BIRTH!!! Both Jesus and John-Baptist are spoken of in this Chapter (Maryam)

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                      • U Offline
                        U Offline
                        unknownuser
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #16

                        Salam,

                        maxq can you please post a referrence where I can find that the Egyptian meem=water?

                        I just did some quick research on Egyptian hieroglyphics and I keep coming up with meem being the symbol of an owl and nun being a symbol of water.

                        However, I still think that water might be favorable as opposed to unfavorable.

                        Salam,
                        Arnab

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                        • U Offline
                          U Offline
                          unknownuser
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #17

                          Salam,

                          Nevermind maxq, I just answered my own question.
                          For all those interested there is a brief history of meem on wikipedia

                          http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M

                          quote from wikipedia

                          "The letter M derives its shape from the Phoenician Mem, via the Greek Mu (, &#956. Semitic Mem originally pictured water, in all probability. It is speculated that Semitic people working in Egypt c. 2000 BC borrowed a hieroglyph for Water that was first used for an alveolar nasal (/n/, because of the Egyptian word for Water, "n-t". This same symbol became used for M in Semitic, because their word for water began with that sound."

                          Salam,
                          Arnab

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                          • M Offline
                            M Offline
                            maxq
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #18

                            what do you think of K H Y 'A tS?

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                            • U Offline
                              U Offline
                              unknownuser
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #19

                              Salam,

                              Further, extending the concept of K H Y 'A tS based on the context of Chapter 19 (Mariam)

                              Kaaf -> branch/palm-of-hand
                              Haa -> Birth
                              Yaa -> Arm/Extending/Extension/Reaching-Out
                              'Aeen -> Eye/Vision
                              tSaad -> Papyrus/Plant/Truth

                              Hence Kaaf Haa Yaa 'Aeen tSaad -means- A Branch's Sprouting Extends the Vision of Truth (of the Scripture)

                              Very possible!

                              Would you mind posting some links as to where you are studying?

                              Salam,
                              Arnab

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                              • M Offline
                                M Offline
                                maxq
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #20

                                for now I am looking though wikipedia... I do not have access to book at the moment. All my books are in Hamilton and I am in Toronto (

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                                • M Offline
                                  M Offline
                                  maxq
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #21

                                  http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Bronze_Age_alphabets
                                  http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet
                                  http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Canaanite_alphabet

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                                  • M Offline
                                    M Offline
                                    maxq
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #22

                                    And also judging based on context of the chapter...

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                                    • M Offline
                                      M Offline
                                      maxq
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #23

                                      The reason why I think Kaaf here means branching and not hand-palm is because of the Verse, "Allah-u Noor-us Samaawaat-i w allArdh" mentions that the allegory of His Light is as if it were a lamp that is hung on an "OLIVE" tree... Then another instance where the Quran says "W at-Teen-i w az-Zaitoon-i wa Toor-i Seeneen" ... It mentions mount Sinai (Moses) and the (Mount of) Olive (Jesus). You see the connection?

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                                      • U Offline
                                        U Offline
                                        unknownuser
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #24

                                        Salam,

                                        Interestingly enough, the word kaph in hebrew (strongs # 3709) is defined as the following

                                        1. palm, hand, sole, palm of the hand, hollow or flat of the hand
                                          a. palm, hollow or flat of the hand
                                          b. power
                                          c. sole (of the foot)
                                          d. hollow, objects, bending objects, bent objects
                                        2. of thigh-joint
                                        3. pan, vessel (as hollow)
                                        4. hollow (of sling)
                                        5. hand-shaped branches or fronds (of palm trees)
                                        6. handles (as bent)

                                        Salam,
                                        Arnab

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                                        • M Offline
                                          M Offline
                                          maxq
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #25

                                          I think I need to cross-corelate between Phoenician and Musnad glyph symbols... so far, the results look very interesting. I'll leave that as a cliffhanger for now

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