"Salat" poll
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Salaams All,
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12107.0
Where is it carried out
Wama kana salatuhumAAinda albayti illa mukaan watasdiyatan fathooqooalAAathaba bima kuntum takfuroona
Their prayer at the House (of Allah) is nothing but whistling and clapping of hands (Its only answer can be), "Taste ye the penalty because ye blasphemed."
The jews still do salat in their various types of bayt , so we can check out what is salat.
God Bless.
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peace
I agree with Tanveer about the times. Dawn and dusk makes sense.
I do not agree with him about what salat actually is. I don't think it is a ritual to show God our piousness.
I think it is meditation with the purpose of improving ourselves. Which makes perfect sense if you look at the times.
Dawn and dusk is when day and night meet.
We are awake during the day (day=awake, conscious)
We are asleep during the night (night=sleep, subconscious)
In the state of meditation, we are merging are conscious self with our subconscious self. -
peace max,
what I said is a fact.
Idolfree's the one who helped me connect this to salat. The man knows what he's talking about.Really!!! And you think that idolfree is right on some Allah's Words (as per Quran)? Who is Allah and how do you confer and what evidence/proof do you have, as per idolfree, that that is what happened 1500 years ago? Please explain?
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What?
I think that Idolfree is right in some things he says, sure.
Who is Allah? "allah" in arabic means "the god." If you wanna know what god is, i'm not the best person to talk to.
Who is talking about 1500 years ago? the sun rises and sets everyday if you havn't noticed. -
What?
I think that Idolfree is right in some things he says, sure.
Who is Allah? "allah" in arabic means "the god." If you wanna know what god is, i'm not the best person to talk to.
Who is talking about 1500 years ago? the sun rises and sets everyday if you havn't noticed.This one brother Marhaba does not even believe in God.
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that's ok. we can convert him. and if we can't, we can always make him pay a special tax or something.
just kidding Marhaba.
If you are an athiest (and you aren't Danish), one piece of advice, please stay calm and have patience with us deluded ones. Because I've seen athiests or even muslims come on this site and get frustrated and that frustration shows in their posts. What happens then is that their posts end up in the "trash" section and they get penalised. Plus, no one will listen to you if you come off as hostile and aggressive.
basically, introduce your views to us and give us a chance to understand. We both will learn something, I'm sure. -
Peace
I do not like the question. I think it is more important to think about what salat is. I feel it a group activity where people discuss pertinent issues and then implement them (hence the association of salat and zakat).
There are still many questions I have after this, but the above is my working hypothesis.
Roshan
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As-Salaat explained by G.A.Parwez
This word has occurred in the Quran 108 times in various forms and as Sal'at 67 times. Sal'at is the principle and one of the most important elements of Islam, and has special significance. Also in view of its extensive and repeated use in the Quran, it is necessary to discuss it somewhat in detail with reference to various verses. First its literal meaning
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As-Sal'a is the central portion of the backside, the portion from where tail of the animal comes out. Both sides are called Salwan and its plural is Salawatun (Taj).
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Mosalli is the horse which comes at second place in a race, and is so close to the first-placed that its ears are touching the other's back portion. (The first one is called S'abiq.) It, therefore, means to follow the first one very closely. There is a saying of Ali the fourth caliph, "Sabaqa Rasool-Allah, wa salla Abu-Bakr wa sallasa Omar wa khabatatna fitnatun." Rasool-Allah went away first, followed by Abu-Bakr and then Omar and thereafter chaos overtook us (Taj).
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According to Taj, Salea Wastala means attachment, to remain stuck. From this reference Raghib says that verse (74/43), "We were not Musalleen," means that they did not follow the Rusul. Accordingly Qurtabi also writes that Sal'at would mean to remain within the bounds of the Laws of Allah, and Tasleah means to walk behind a person so closely that there remains no distance; not to surpass him but remain closely behind.
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It is very important to understand the relationship of man and Allah. Allah is the One Who is Supreme, Most Perfect and Most Beautiful. He has various Attributes called Asma-ul-Husna and each Attribute is perfect and complete. Allah has also given a personality to man and referred to it as "Roohona" - the Divine Energy (see Rooh). The object or the purpose of man's life is to develop his personality according to the Laws of Allah and inculcate in himself as much of Allah's Attributes as may be humanly possible.
In the first Surah (Al-F'atiha) of the Quran, a Momin is taught to ask of Allah to guide him to Sira't-Al-Mustaqeem (and that, in fact, should be a Momin's purpose of life - to tread the Sira't-Al-Mustaqeem all along - the straight and the balanced path) and in the eleventh Surah (Hud) it is stated that Allah continuously stays at Sira't-Al-Mustaqeem. It transpires from the above that the only straight path a Momin is required to adopt during the course of his life, is the same at which Allah Almighty Himself is going and running this universe. This path can easily be adopted by closely and steadfastly following the dictates of Allah's Book, i.e., the Holy Quran. Hence the basic meaning of Sal'at is complete concordance with the Book of Allah and thereby incorporating in one's own self Allah's most balanced Attributes, of course, as far as is humanly possible.
In verse (24/41) a question is asked "Have you not pondered over the fact that whatever there is in the universe including the birds with wings spread out, is continuously carrying out their assignments with fullest play of their capabilities and each one of them knows its sphere of duties (Tasbeeh) and the way those are to be carried out (Sal'at)." This obviously means that everything in the universe knows by instinct, what are its duties and how to perform them and what is its destiny. As far as animal world is concerned, they do it by instinct. But if a human being wants to know, what is his Tasbeeh and Sal'at, it is a must for him to have faith in Wahi, through which all these directions containing do's and don'ts are explained. This is Iqamat-As-Sal'at, a special term used in the Quran.
To follow the Laws of the Quran is Iqamat-As-Sal'at. This is not possible individually and can only be done collectively; that is why the Quran has used the plural tense for this. It is the responsibility of an Islamic State is to establish this order (22/41), and they do it by mutual consultations (42/3. This system covers all the aspects of life, particularly the economic system. Verse (11/87) is very significant in this regard. It says "O Shu'aib! does your Sal'at not permit us even to spend our wealth as we desire?" They did not understand as to what type of Sal'at is one which gives directions even in economic matters; they thought Sal'at is just a prayer or some sort of ritual.In a nutshell it would pose one simple question. Would a person like to decide his affairs according to his desires, wishes or would he surrender before the Laws of Allah? This later position is called Sal'at. Verse (19/59) further clarifies "they were followed by people who abandoned or negated the Sal'at." Therefore, following the Divine Laws is called Sal'at. As such Ibn-e-Qutaiba says, Sal'at actually means Ad-Deen and Iqamat-As-Sal'at means Iqamat-ud-Deen.
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As-Salla means fire and firewood. Salla Asaho-Alan-Nar means he straightened and softened his stick by heating it with fire. As such Sal'at would also mean to remove one's defects. Author of Al-Minar says that Sal'at, in fact, is the recognition that one's personality needs guidance of a superior authority. In this way Qurtabi says that Sal'at means obedience to Allah.
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Another meaning of Sal'at is to subdue and arrest and attract someone's attention (Moheet). This view would explain another meaning of Sal'at which is taming and harnessing the forces operative in the Universe.
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One meaning of Sal'at is reverence and respect (Taj), i.e., to work for and establish a socio-economic system that proves the greatness of the Sustainer of this universe.
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In Hebrew dictionary Salawat (plural of Sal'at) is the praying place of Jews. In verse (22/40) this word is used in that context.
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Sal'at has also been used for a particular ritual. On the whole, whatever a Momin is doing by following the Laws of Allah, without any restrictions of time or formation, is Sal'at. But where ever in the Quran it refers to a particular action, its form and timing has to be fixed. In this regard there are various verses in the Quran, e.g.,
a. Verse (5/6) mentions ablution, which is to be performed before offering Sal'at.
b. Verse (4/43) prohibits the Momineen to perform Sal'at when they are under the influence of intoxication (the Momineen are, however, admonished to refrain from the use of intoxicants 5/90-91).
c. In Surah Al-Jum'aa (62/9-10) it is commanded "when you are called for the congregation on the day of Jum'aa, you should rush towards Zikr-Allah, putting aside your business - and after Sal'at spread out in the land in search of bounty of Allah and do His Zikr a great deal, so that you may prosper."
d. Some specific timings are also mentioned in the Quran. Verse (17/7 directs the Momineen to establish Sal'at from early morning till late night. In this verse the word "Dalook" has been used which means from morning till evening, thereby denying the earlier superstition that certain times of the day are good or bad. It is further explained in verse (11/114) that Sal'at be established on the two ends of the day and early hours of night. Verses (20/130) and (50/39) mention about Hamd before sunrise and sunset and also late night when stars start fading (52/49).
e. Verse (24/5 mentions about Sal'at-ul-Fajr and Sal'at-ul-'Ishaa when domestic servants are forbidden from entering private apartments without permission.
f. About recitation during Sal'at, the Quran says that you should understand as to what you are reciting (4/43) and do not recite loudly or in silence but adopt a course in between.
The above verses explain that the meaning of Sal'at encompasses the congregational prayers as well. Wherever Aqeem-us-Sal'at is referred to, it means the establishment of the whole system, the obedience to the Laws of Allah, and the observance of all the duties expected of a Momin. At other places, it also refers to the offering of prayers as well other duties which are a part of the whole system. For this distinction one has to see the whole verse and the context in which it is brought. Similarly the word Musalleen is referred to those persons who are at the height of dignity ( 70/22-35).
g. Salla Alaihe, according to Raghib, means to respect, to give blessings, to encourage, to grow, to nourish, to stop getting decayed. So in those verses of the Quran where this root occurs with 'Ala, it means that Allah and all the heavenly forces encourage you, provide you with necessary means of growth and nourishment and make your efforts bear fruit (33/43). In verse (2/157) it is stated that when the Momineen face difficulties in the enforcement and establishment of Deen, they do not get disheartened, but remain steadfast and they deserve all the appreciation and encouragement from Allah. This is also mentioned in particular about Rasool-Allah (peace be upon him) himself saying, "Allah and all the heavenly forces help and encourage him in the fulfilment of the Divine program. So, O Jama'at-ul-Momineen, you should also help your Rasool (peace be upon him), by following him and submitting before him." (33/56)
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The above verses explain that the meaning of Sal'at encompasses the congregational prayers as well. Wherever Aqeem-us-Sal'at is referred to, it means the establishment of the whole system, the obedience to the Laws of Allah, and the observance of all the duties expected of a Momin. At other places, it also refers to the offering of prayers as well other duties which are a part of the whole system. For this distinction one has to see the whole verse and the context in which it is brought. Similarly the word Musalleen is referred to those persons who are at the height of dignity ( 70/22-35).
Peace
One of the issues that those who challenged the authority of Bukhari et al before us had, was that they felt a need to marry the Sunni/Shia religion with Islam. One of the major area where this can be seen is in 'salat'.
It is abundantly clear in the Quran that no ritual prayer is ever mentioned. What does one say, what does one do? This is never mentioned in the Quran. Those Muslims who believe 'salat' = ritualistic prayer simply take random bits of the Quran and pretend that they refer to salat.
The problem with the 'salat' issue is that the Sunnis/Shias have made ritualistic prayer a key part of their faith and that baggage is transferred onto others, either when they embrace Islam or through passive diffusion. Muslims also forget their principles which are that the Quran is either a) complete b)a false scripture. They get sucked into the Sunni trick of trying to show that salat is what the Sunni/Shia believe it to be. But in that regard, their sciptures will always be more 'complete' than ours because all they do is use the Quran very superficially to justify their own religious books.
It doesn't matter if one is unsure what salat is. Believing in God and doing good is also important. However, IMO, one should not get sucked into believing salat = ritual prayer.
Roshan
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Salam,
I say 2 times a day at dawn and dusk.
I have perform my salat during that times I guess 2 years by now and I feel it's right. Why else would God repeat himself so many times about those timings. ex. Obey your Lord morning and evening are found on many places in Quran.
Peace sis Majidah
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Salam,
I say 2 times a day at dawn and dusk.
I have perform my salat during that times I guess 2 years by now and I feel it's right. Why else would God repeat himself so many times about those timings. ex. Obey your Lord morning and evening are found on many places in Quran.
Peace sis MajidahSalam.
True, on many pages i too have found that we are to mention The God and even though i pray at those times, i also pray at other times, i find myself praying more and more, because sometimes people just don't realize how hard Judgment Day will be.
I will tell you this if i don't pray during the day and night, i feel like The God will strike me with the lightning, i become more afraid of The God, if i decided not to pray during the day and the night.
Any thoughts on that ....
Peace.
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Peace be upon you all,
Salaat is the process by which we PROGRAM our subconcious(spirit/nafs) by removing/purifying wrong conditionings and allow the God attributes that we were created upon to come forth. That is why we are told that those who purify the nafs(subconcious) succeed and those that dont fail and thatis why those in the fire, when asked how they got there, the first response is "we were not of those who programmed the nafs(musaleen)."
Programming involves us getting into a highly receptive state, which is called the TRANCE state. It is nothing wired, in fact, we enter this state many times during the day, in fact, everything that you have learned(remembered) is because you were in a trance state. So we must realize that we are always being programmed, so its time to take control of this programming ourselves. As the God says "woe to those who are programmed but are heedless of this programming". Meditation is the best means of programming the subconcious, and it involves getting to that state BETWEEN awake and sleep, which is symbolized by the day merging with the night, DAWN and DUSK.
I have been procrastinating for a long time in really putting this together. I just started a new job today and hopefully I wil have time on Mondays now where I can sit down and put this all together in an article with more evidence and examples by which everyone ca verify for themselves, cause that is the only way to know anything.
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Peace all,
My current understanding of the timed salat according to the Qur'aan.
I believe that the Qur'aan is fully detailed relevant to our guidance and it contains all details regarding the timed salat of the muslimeen, which really matter. We should be careful and perform our salat according to the details and within the limits mentioned in the Qur'aan, even though those details and limits might be different from how our fathers have been performing salat
2170 And if they are told "Follow what God has sent down," they say "No, we will follow what we found our fathers doing!" What if their fathers did not understand anything and were not guided?
I believe that the Messenger never contradicted the Qur'aan in how he performed salat. Hence any contradiction in the way people currently perform salat, with what is mentioned in the Qur'aan cannot be the correct way.
Salat is much more than just "praying" to God. In the Qur'aan the word used for prayer/call is "dua" and not "salat". Salat includes reading and understanding the Qur'aan, remembering The God, and glorifying/praising The God. Of course after salat and at any time of day or night, one can perform "dua". In addition to that, when we are reading with understanding certain passages from the Qur'aan which are "dua" to The God, we are also performing "dua" during salat.
A better translation for "salat" in my opinion would be "connection" or "learning connection" or "commitment to read/study the words of The God and remember and glorify Him".
Upholding reguar salat results in PROGRAMMING of one's soul/mind which enables one to better/purify oneself (zakat) and follow the divine commandments closely at each and every moment of one's life and submit to/obey The God's will by following the straight path as outlined by Him.
Please see the following articles and discussion about what "salat" is
http//free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat_mirghani.htm
http//free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/name.htm
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7820.0
http//free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat_wakas.htm
Salat is both mental and bodily. Following are the important details of salat according to the Qur'aan, in my understanding
- Salat and zakat are obligatory for all muslims (muslimeen), and not just the believers (mumineen), contrary to what a lot of people on free-minds think that salat is only for believers. Please see the following discussion for my evidences from al-qur'aan
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12990.0
- The obligatory salat is two times per day according to the Qur'aan. Please see the following for evidences from the Qur'aan
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12200.msg92976#msg92976
http//free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat2.htm
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7727.0 (for a detailed discussion on "salat al-wusta"
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9110.msg107691#msg107691
One can perform additional salat (naafilah) if one likes for extra credit, which is optional
1779 And from the night awake for it additionally (naafilatan) for yourself, perhaps your Lord would grant you to a high rank.
- Mental direction towards "masjid alharam"/institution of hearing and obeying the forbidden (2144). The focal point is not just during salat, but wherever one is (2149, 2150) and the evidence confirms it is non-physical (2115, 2142, 2177) (sectarians face their idol in makkah). Thus the physical direction could be in any direction.
Please see the following for more details
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13210.msg110854#msg110854
- The call to salat is for group salat only (558, 629). The call and salat should use Qur'aanic words only. Sectarians testify the messengership in the call and during salat, whereas in the Qur'aan nowhere are we required to testify/witness the messengership. We are required to BELIEVE in messengership, not testify/witness it.
1343 And those who reject Say "You are not a messenger." Say "God is sufficient as a witness between me and you, the One who has the knowledge of the Scripture."
Please note that even the messenger himself did not testify/witness his own messengership, but said that God is sufficient as a witness !!!
4828 He is the One who sent His messenger with the guidance and the system of truth, so that it would expose all other systems. And God is sufficient as a witness.
Testifying/witnessing messengership without actually witnessing it ourselves is giving false testimony and being a false witness, and actually would make one a hypocrite/liar
631 When the hypocrites come to you they Say "We bear witness that you are the messenger of God." And God knows that you are His messenger, and God bears witness that the hypocrites are liars.
Those with knowledge, however, can testify/witness the oneness of The God
318 God bears witness that there is no god but He, as do the Angels, and those with knowledge, He is standing with justice. There is no god but Him, the Noble, the Wise.
Please see the following article about "shahada"
http//free-minds.org/articles/hadith/testimony.htm
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Location of salat could be sanctuaries or homes (2458, 339, 2436)
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Physical cleanliness and clarity of mind as prescribed in the Qur'aan before salat (56, 443). Sectarians have a different version of washing; they add putting water in their mouth and nose and perform each washing 3 times. The sectarians actually break their fast while fasting each time they put water in their mouth for washing before salat in contradiction to the Qur'aanic way, as water is readily absorbed from the oral mucosal surfaces.
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Standing to uphold salat (4102, 339, 2238, 4142). "Aqeemu al-salat" can also mean persist in salat. Thus standing in salat is both physical and mental and we should persist in salat as well as stand in salat.
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Oration or recitation of ayat from the Qur'aan (4103 - "kitaban mawqootan"/timed BOOK, 1778 - "qur'aana al-fajri"/dawn reading, 17106-110) with understanding (443) in a moderate tone (17110, 111). The oration should include Qur'aanic words and ayat only and one should remember and glorify Allah only (2014, 17110, 111). Sectarians recite verses from the Qur'aan silently in certain salats, and in other salats they have silent recitation in parts of salat and they recite certain words that are not part of the Qur'aan, like aameen, and they praise and remember certain messengers in addition to Allah.
The only obligatory part of the Qur'aan that one is required to say is one that sectarians don't normally say in their salat (See 17111).
- Kneeling position during salat (555) with humility. Thus ruku' during salat is both mental and bodily. There is no evidence of the sectarian bowing position according to al Qur'aan. For more info on "kneeling" versus "bowing" please see the following link
http//free-minds.org/articles/hadith/refute2.htm
Physical ruku' is not bowing. According to the Qur'aan one is to go down and sit on the knees. See 3824
"? he fell "raki'an"?" (3824)
One cannot fall into bowing, however, one can fall to one's knees. Therefore the bowing position has no support in the Qur'aan.
Of course, "ruku'" also means humility, so we should be humble in our salat, which is also "ruku'".
- Salat is ended with physical sujud in which one falls to/with the chin and not to the forehead (17108, 109), accompanied by mental submission/obedience. Thus sujud during salat is both mental and bodily. Sujud of sectarians, on the other hand, is on the forehead. Please see the following for a discussion about physical sujud
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12918.msg107735#msg107735
Probably that is why the disbelievers will not know how to "sujud" on the Last Day, and they will be dragged by their lying and errant foreheads
6842 The Day will come when they will be exposed, and they will be required to prostrate, but they will be unable to.
9615 No but if he does not cease/desist, We will pull and drag by the forehead/forehead's hair.
9616 A lying, sinning/erring forehead/forehead's hair.Of course "sujud" also means submission/obedience so we should obey and submit to The God at each and every moment of our lives, which would be "sujud" too. Salat should be performed with humility (ruku' and followed with submission/obedience (sujud).
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The last utterance should be "alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-3alameen" (see 1010).
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There are two units in each salat, and my evidence from the Qur'aan is at the following link
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12981.msg106616#msg106616
In case of fear or war, the salat can be shortened to one unit, and can also be performed while walking or riding (4101, 2239).
- My understanding about "yaum al-jum3a" is at the following link
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12991.msg106788#msg106788
An alternate understanding is that muslims can be called to salat at any time they are assembled anywhere.
Only by performing our salat according to the Qur'aan will we be able to preserve and uphold ALSALAT ALWUSTA (the balanced/best salat - 223 thereby bringing forth the purification/betterment (zakat).
May The God guide us all to the truth and the straight path and improve our understanding of His system so we can follow it and submit to His will in the best manner.
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Peace Tanveer,
Thank you for clarifying your understanding of salaat. It's nice to read and to contemplate how you see it. However, I'm not sure I'm with you on all the points....
anyway....
Be well and always walk in the light.... sun
(idolfree.....I'm still waiting.....any progress?)
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Peace Lisa,
Thank you for the warm wishes !
Thank you for clarifying your understanding of salaat. It's nice to read and to contemplate how you see it. However, I'm not sure I'm with you on all the points....
It would be nice if you can share your understanding too; no debates but just how you differ, so we can have a mutually beneficial learning connection !
I still haven't made up my mind on some points and would welcome your input, as well as others
Regards and best wishes peace
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Peace all,
Cld i get more votes and feedback on this poll? Also in cse you opt for salat having nothing to do with any prayer and rather means following the laws of GOD then what do you make of the washing before standing up for salat as mentioned in the Quran? Thanks. sun GOD Bless!
