CHARITY POLL
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Peace rsw
Is 2219 about charity? I thought it was about intoxicants and gambling, saying they have little benefit and greater harm, and we should give up excess in them?
I think it speaks of both.
Here are some interpretations
Yousuf Ali They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say "In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit." They ask thee how much they are to spend; Say "What is beyond your needs." Thus doth Allah Make clear to you His Signs In order that ye may consider-
Literal They ask/question you about the intoxicants/substances affecting the brain and the gambling , say "In them (B) (is a) great sin/crime and benefits/uses to the people and their (B's) sin/crime (is) bigger/greater from (than) their (B's) benefit/use, and they ask/question you what they (should) spend, say "The excess over expense/goodness ." Like that God clarifies for you the signs/verses/evidences, maybe you think.
Pickthal They question thee about strong drink and games of chance. Say In both is great sin, and (some) utility for men; but the sin of them is greater than their usefulness. And they ask thee what they ought to spend. Say that which is superfluous. Thus Allah maketh plain to you (His) revelations, that haply ye may reflect.
Free Minds They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say "In them is great harm, and a benefit for mankind; but their harm is greater than their benefit." And they ask you how much are they to give, Say "The excess." It is thus that God clarifies for you the revelations that you may think.
Asad THEY WILL ASK thee about intoxicants and games of chance. Say "In both there is great evil as well as some benefit for man; but the evil which they cause is greater than the benefit which they bring." And they will ask thee as to what they should spend . Say "Whatever you can spare." In this way God makes clear unto you His messages, so that you might reflect
It seems quite clear that the verse speaks of a) intoxicants & gambling and b) how much one should spend ( in the God's cause I think). I could be wrong. I am not sure hoiw you arrive at the conclusion that the second part of the verse refers to giving up excess in gambling intoxicants. Could you please explain how you arrived at this conclusion.
If 841 clearly says "one-fifth" there shouldn't be any question?
Many people believe, as I did for a long time, that this is specific to the spoils of war. The verse, however does not specify this.
Imraan
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peace.
Was under the assumption that "Yunfiquna" (ن in 2219 could also mean "give" (as this is how the Free-Minds Qu'ran depicts the word) but upon searching for real evidence to back this up (instead of just "look! it's been translated like that by someone!" I could only find "spend" as the meaning. I am not sure if it could be still be used for the meaning of giving up the excess of alcohol and gambling; that is something for someone more knowledgable than me to figure out. I just assume the two questions are related because they are in the same verse, and also, the question of charity was answered just four verses prior
2215 They ask you what they should spend (yunfiquna), say ?What you spend out of goodness should go to your family and the relatives and the orphans, and the needy, and the wayfarer. And any good you do, God is fully aware of it.?
841 And know that anything you profit, one-fifth shall go to God and the messenger, and the relatives, and the orphans, and the poor, and the wayfarer.? You will do this if you believe in God and in what We revealed to Our servant on the day of the Criterion, the day the two armies clashed. God is able to do all things.
As far as I can tell the same word is used in 2215 which actually seems to be about charity as it mentions "relatives, orphans, poor, wayfarer" just the same way 841 does. Therefore, why would God answer the same question twice in the same discourse (in 2215 and also in 2219)? 2215 doesn't specify any particular quantity, it just says "what you spend out of goodness;" therefore if we combine it with one-fifth as stated in 841, which is obviously talking about the same thing (since it mentions the same recipients) we still give one-fifth.
Also because alcohol and gambling are kind of "fuzzy" to us humans, it would need explanation for how much. It makes sense to me that people would ask "what about drinking and gambling", and God would say "they have little benefit and great harm", then the people would ask "well how do we know how much is beneficial and how much is harmful? How much of it should we give up?" and God would say "the excess;" however, I may have only come to this conclusion because the society I live in have labeled alcohol and gambling as OK as long as they are not in excess -- I may be being influenced by that.
But 841 supplies us with a clear statement and a clear number, and further says that believers will do it. A clear statement where the verse is not split into two parts seems like a solid reasoning; however the verses just prior to it and just after it are about combat. It is entirely possible that 841 is about the spoils of war and I am completely off-base.
Also, as a side note to 841 discussion, if you believe in the distinction between believers and submitters in 1449 (as described here http//free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/mumin.htm), that would make this charity voluntary (and thus, indeed a charity) and one of the actions that a person does to distinguish themselves before God as a believer. If the verse was only given for the spoils of war that condition of belief "you will do this if you believe" wouldn't have been necessary as they were already fighting in the cause of God and should have been believers by default.
We could say that the first half of 2219 is a question about alcohol and gambling, and the second half of it is a question about charity; and 2215 is also a question about charity. Or we could say that the question of charity was answered in 2215 and 2219 is entirely about alcohol and gambling. To adopt the second point of view is consistent with 841 all the way and does not create contradiction in Qu'ran. To accept the former creates a dispute one-fifth or the excess? This is my reasoning as clearly as I can put it.
I donno if any of that makes sense. I pray to God that maybe I have said something good, and am not just spreading ignorance around as usual. God knows best.
peace.
edit- actually, after reviewing 841 in its context I'm obliged to believe the one-fifth is indeed for war spoils, and the amount for charity is left to our discretion as complies with 2567. Well, what I thought I knew about that subject quickly changed~!
and peace!
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Peace all,
THank you fo your valuable input on this issue. I have however decided to discuss this issue in a broader sense, viz. Economic System of the Quran. It can be found here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597204.0
Please participate in this discussion if you can.
Imraan
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I can't get into this site. Its banned in the country I reside so could anyone of you investigate it and tell us what it say about zakat and traditional Islam
http//www.mukto-mona.com/Articles/raihan/traditional_islamic6.pdf
I can't open it either (UK). It starts the download but immediately I get a message saying "The file is damaged and cannot be repaired"
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The tiltle of the link says "is traditional rites in Islam fabricated? its either a defense of that or a refutation. I can't get to the link cause its banned here meaning its anti-Sunni.
Yeah it is banned on my side too; D criticism is not allowed in sunnism police