Is the Qu'ran really the final revelation?
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I know this is probably going to sound like heresy.
I was reading what remnants of the Gospel the Christians have left us last night and I noticed that there were still many commands to worship God alone. Then I realized that the words I was reading were not originally written in English, but in ancient Greek. Then I realized that they weren't originally spoken in ancient Greek, but in Aramaic. Then I thought about the Qu'ran; and how -- being a native English speaker and almost as far from Arabic, Hewbrew, Greek, and Aramaic language as I could possibly be -- I would never be able to fully understand ANY of the Scriptures!
Aside from the obvious language barrier, each language has it's own expressions that would never make sense translated, and each word can be translated to have multiple meanings in English (many of which may be appropriate simultaneously, thus impossible to accurately translate, such as in the terms "islam" and "salat" for example).
But the Qu'ran tells us that every people gets their messenger. As far as I know, the Jewish-speaking people have 20-something messengers, who brought them many scriptures in their own language. Have the English-speaking people (since the emergence of the English language which is well-documented) had a single messenger? One at all? Even one verse of scripture in our own language? Is it fair that we should only come to know the message of our Creator through interpretations of other people's scriptures?
Rashad Khalifa didn't bring us any scriptures and we have reason to believe he misinterpreted the Qu'ran on purpose, so he does not count. Joseph Smith's Mormonism is wacky (God having physical relations with Mary, atonement, etc, but God will judge between us in what we dispute) and so must be ruled out as it contradicts the Qu'ran (indisputably a miracle of God).
So my question is does the arabic Qu'ran explicitly state that it is the final revelation to mankind? I've seen the arguments that the words of the Qu'ran will be preserved by God and that the Qu'ran supercedes previous scriptures, but I haven't seen a verse that says "There will be no further scripture after this Qu'ran." If anyone knows of such a verse then I stand corrected.
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Salam,
I disagree.
Most Arabic speaking people are proponents of idolatry and live their lives in total opposition to the Quran eventhough they recite it day and night.
Language is not an issue as its is God who leads us to understand His words and not men
And had We made it a non-Arabic compilation, they would have saidIf only its verses were made clear!Non-Arabic and Arabic, sayFor those who believe, it is a guide and healing. As for those who disbelieve, there is deafness in their ears, and they are blind to it. These will be called from a place far away.``(Qur`an 4144)As for the Quran being the final revelation, yes, that is derived from the verses which soeas of Mohammed being the
seal of the prophets. without prophets we cant get any new scriptures (messengers dont bring new revelations, only prophets do) -
Peace,
It's true; there are people who have been reciting the Clear Book their whole lives but still insist that it is so unclear as to need hadith and scholars to explain it for them. If they don't understand it themselves then they are certain that I can never understand it. Context, the most appropriate definitions, continuity, etc. means nothing when I am always automatically "excused" for my ignorance of Arabic, no matter how much evidence I put forward.
Religion is vital, and scriptures are a pretty important part of it. The guidance is from God but the only communicable expression of that guidance (that is, what we can share between us as humans) is in scripture. If I read a verse in the Qu'ran and see it as about one thing, and an Arab reads it and sees it is about something else, then we are not on the same guidance at all. A clear statement should be something easily agreed upon by any two people in any language without much argument if any. Whenever there isn't agreement when the meaning seems obvious I have to wonder exactly how clear is the language itself? Why can't we even agree on the GENERAL TOPIC of a verse? If the Qu'ran is for all people everywhere you would think all people everywhere would be able to agree on what it said, even if they didn't agree to believe in it.
Especially if it's two people that both read it daily and both believe in it. No discussion should be ended with "I hope you learn Arabic soon, Word of God can't be translated."
peace.
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peace)
doesn't it say on quite a few occasions that quran was sent to all humanity? guess that would include us today. but it also says that a messenger was sent to every nation... does that mean another messenger is to come to my nation here in slovenia? or is the messenger the quran itself? or is a messenger just any person delivering some kind of a message? or is the messenger anthony wallace? ;D
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53 ... Today the rejecters have given up from your system, so do not fear them, but fear Me. Today I have perfected your system for you, and completed My blessings upon you, and I have accepted submission as the system for you. So, whoever is forced by severe hunger and not seeking sin, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.
3340 Mohammed was not the father of any of your men, but he is the messenger of God and the seal of the prophets. And God is fully aware of all things.
381 And God took a covenant from the prophets ?For what I have given you of the Scripture and wisdom...
2213 The people used to be one nation, then God sent the prophets as bearers of good news and warners, and He sent down with them the Scripture with the facts so that they may judge between the people in what they were disputing. But after receiving the clarity, the people disputed in it due to animosity between them. And God guided those who believed with His permission regarding what they disputed in of the truth. And God guides whoever He wishes to a straight path.
379 It is not for a human that God would give him the Scripture and the authority and the prophethood, then he would say to the people ?Be servants to me rather than God!?, rather ?Be devotees for what you have been taught of the Scripture, and for what you studied.?
689 Those to whom We have given the Scripture, and the law, and the prophethood, if they reject it, then We will entrust it to a people who will not reject it.
I think "the Scripture, and the law/authority, and the prophethood" are all the same thing because scriptures are the only source of God's law and prophethood isn't the same as a prophet because a prophet's a mere human, while prophethood's his duty. Just like a banker isn't their job of banking; they're just a banker.
Given that Mohamed was the last person to be given a book/prophethood/God's law, no more books will come after the Quran.
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53 ... Today the rejecters have given up from your system, so do not fear them, but fear Me. Today I have perfected your system for you, and completed My blessings upon you, and I have accepted submission as the system for you. So, whoever is forced by severe hunger and not seeking sin, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.
Given that Mohamed was the last person to be given a book/prophethood/God's law, no more books will come after the Quran.Fact Quran and the above verse was created/recited about 1400 years ago..
Question How could God completed His blessings upon me at the time that I was not even existed yet?
I have received and continue to receives many of God's blessing.Fact After the Quran era (1400 years ago) humankind continue to find and reveal many other mystery in the universe (e.g. microbiology, DNA, dark-matter, relativity, black-hole etc..) and many others will be revealed in the future.
Question Where does the above 'revelations' came from if it's not from God?? As (Quran said) He is the one who taught mankind what they knew not...Salam / Peace
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It bothers me that the Torah and Gospel were corrupted by Jews and Christians respectively, so the Qu'ran was revealed; but the Muslims couldn't corrupt the words of the Qu'ran so they changed their whole language to make sure it's meaning would be almost completely obscured.
Why isn't there just one book that I can understand without question? One chapter? Even one verse?
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It bothers me that the Torah and Gospel were corrupted by Jews and Christians respectively, so the Qu'ran was revealed; but the Muslims couldn't corrupt the words of the Qu'ran so they changed their whole language to make sure it's meaning would be almost completely obscured.
Why isn't there just one book that I can understand without question? One chapter? Even one verse?Do you really need a book to understand something?
(Dude we live in internet era!!)
Do you really need a book to life a good life?Just a reminder, Abraham managed to lived a good life without reading a single book at all.
Torah, Gospel, Quran etc.. is just non-existent at his time.There are signs for those who understand..
And God signs is all around us..
Just ask Him to gain understanding on all of His signs...
And it shall be REVEALED to you... (yet another revelation from Him to you approx. 1400 years after the Quran bravo)"Keep asking, and it will be given to you. Keep searching, and you will find.
Keep knocking, and the door will be opened for you.
Because everyone who keeps asking will receive, and the person who keeps searching will find,
and the person who keeps knocking will have the door opened.
There isn't a person among you who would give his son a stone if he asked for bread, is there?
Or if he asks for a fish, he wouldn't give him a snake, would he?
So if you who are evil know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more
will your Father in heaven give good things to those who keep on asking Him!
Therefore, whatever you want people to do for you, do the same for them,
because that is the summary of the Law (Torah) and the Prophets."-- Iashua Ha Mossiach a.k.a Jesus Christ a.k.a Isa Al-Massih
Quoted from (supposedly) "corrupted" book.There is nothing new in the Qur'an which was not revealed to former messengers.
Quran 4143Salam / Peace
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peace,
you're right, I really don't need a book to know what I need to do; actually I have been thinking about it a little more and I am afraid that I may have been guilty lately of idolizing the Qu'ran (that I don't even understand the Arabic of) above God. It's a rough road, looking for guidance and help, unless you look to God-alone.peace
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Peace,
Respectfully.53 Forbidden to you is that which is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was sacrificed to other than God, and that which has been strangled, and that which has been beaten to death, and that which has fallen from a height, and that which has been gored, and that which the wild animals have eaten from except what you managed to rescue, and what has been slaughtered on alters, and what you divide by the arrows of chance. This is all vile. Today the rejecters have given up from your system, so do not fear them, but fear Me. Today I have perfected your system for you, and completed My blessings upon you, and I have accepted submission as the system for you. So, whoever is forced by severe hunger and not seeking sin, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.
4142 No falsehood could enter it, presently or afterwards; a revelation from a Most Wise, Praiseworthy.
Peace.
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salam,
The way you understand the Quran is itself a test in this life. Keyword "mutashabihat" (words that appear to mean something else)
37 Huwa allathee anzala AAalayka alkitaba minhu ayatun muhkamatun hunna ommu alkitabi waokharu mutashabihatun faamma allatheena fee quloobihim zayghun fayattabiAAoona ma tashabaha minhu ibtighaa alfitnati waibtighaa taweelihi wama yaAAlamu taweelahu illa Allahu waalrrasikhoona fee alAAilmi yaqooloona amanna bihi kullun min AAindi rabbina wama yaththakkaru illa oloo alalbabi
37 He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.
So the Quran is this way for a reason. I.e. to distinguish true believers from those who have a disease in their hearts.
If you went back to prophet's days now and you heard the way they communicated and understood things you will faint. The language has changed so much.
Example about two generations ago the word "awful" used to mean something good. Something full of "awe". It was a positive word meaning inspiring awe or admiration or wonder.
Now however ironically it means the complete opposite. Awful = extremely bad, unpleasant, ugly, displeasing.
There are many examples of such. I'm a linguistics major myself and I advise that the Quran be understood thematically (by topic and Allah's logical advice to everything). You cannot necessarily trust dictionaries.
E.g. As mentioned in previous posts before the word "dharaba" in the Quran. Nowhere does it mean "to hit" but rather to put forth or separate or put out something/break up or away from something.
The easier way to understand the Quran though in this issue (hitting women) is to see other verses. I.e. Whenever Allah talks about relationship problems He mentions Separation/break period, appointing arbitrator from his family and one from hers etc.
So the Quran is easy to understand brothers and sisters.
Peace sun
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salam rsw. as a human being with a limited lifespan you have limitations consistent with your creation.
allah is a being with an unlimited lifespan and no limitations. when allah reveals quran, previous revelations and current revelation, the quran is not intended as a guide to one individual, it is a guide to all mankind. quran is intended to guide future generations who have not been born, who will live in worlds unrecognizeable to you today, and it was a guide to past generations who are long gone who lived in a world you do not comprehend. the apparent ambiguity is not ambiguity, it comes from our lack of knowledge of the future and the past. there will always be elements of quran that you comprehend and elements you do not comprehend, this is not a shortcoming of the quran, this is a shortcoming of human limitations.
for practical purposes, there is a point of diminishing returns, and the quran very eloquently avoids this trap. when i see the debates over when to say prayers, or when to fast, and watch people blindly blunder onwards debating down to the last picosend as to when a prayer should be said, i am reminded of the wisdom of the quran. in retrospect the debaters will realize eventually they spun their wheels in the mud, as allah says they say what does allah mean by this verse, instead of obediently complying.
allah is the best teacher.
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I'm not fond of this quoting the Quran to say the Quran is flawless and perfect. It's circular reasoning. A true judgement of the meaning and nature of the Quran must be purpose orientated and external to its pages.
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I'm not fond of this quoting the Quran to say the Quran is flawless and perfect. It's circular reasoning. A true judgement of the meaning and nature of the Quran must be purpose orientated and external to its pages.
The Quran is flawless and perfect. It is us humans and our nafs (souls) that are not.
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It bothers me that the Torah and Gospel were corrupted by Jews and Christians respectively, so the Qu'ran was revealed; but the Muslims couldn't corrupt the words of the Qu'ran so they changed their whole language to make sure it's meaning would be almost completely obscured.
Why isn't there just one book that I can understand without question? One chapter? Even one verse?
The Koran came to confirm the previous scriptures. There is nothing in the Koran about the previous scriptures being corrupted.
ay "O People of the Book! Ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord, If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course But many of them follow a course that is evil. (5,68-69)
Let the People of the Gospel judge by what God hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. (5,47)
But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have (their own) Law before them?- Therein is the (plain) command of God; yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not (really) people of faith. (Surah 5, Maida, verse 43)
5.44. It was We who revealed the law (to Moses) therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to God's will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law for to them was entrusted the protection of God's book, and they were witnesses thereto therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) Unbelievers.
5.46. And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him We sent him the Gospel therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him a guidance and an admonition to those who fear God.
To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety so judge between them by what God hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If God had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to God; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute; Surah 5 Verse 48
All food was lawful to the Children of Israel, except what Israel made unlawful for itself, before the Law (of Moses) was revealed. Say,"Bring ye the Law and study it, if ye be men of truth." (Surah 3, Al-i-'Imran, verse 93)
And if thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that) was before thee... (Surah 10, Jonah, verse 94)
O People of the Book, now has come to you Our Messenger, clarifying to you much of that you used to conceal of the Book and passing over much ." (515)
"It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong)," (33).
2.41 And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone.
2.89 And when there comes to them a Book from Allah, confirming what is with them,- although from of old they had prayed for victory against those without Faith,- when there comes to them that which they (should) have recognized, they refuse to believe in it but the curse of Allah is on those without Faith.
2.91 When it is said to them, ?Believe in what Allah Hath sent down, ?they say, ?We believe in what was sent down to us? yet they reject all besides, even if it be Truth confirming what is with them. Say ?Why then have ye slain the prophets of Allah in times gone by, if ye did indeed believe??
The Koran says the previous are to be followed. This is a bad habit I noticed among many Koranist. They accept what the Koran says about istelf but not what it says about the previous scriptures. This is unethical.
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salam liquiddharma. the actions of a believer must be consistent with the principles enumerated in the quran, and within the limits established by the quran.
from your post it appears you reject the quran, you deny it is flawless and perfect. you seek to add to the quran by your purpose orientation and external to its pages innovation. you appear to have established yourself as the all knowing god, and rejected allah as all knowing.
allah is the light.
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If so, then appearances are deceptive. You must not confuse rigorous questioning of all unnecessary premises with genuine skepticism. I think faith in Allah demands of us that we do not blindly follow the claims of Imams but think for ourselves.
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Peace
In the early days of Islam the Quran was not a source of law. It was never discused by legal jurists in that period. In debates with Christans the Quran is absent. When mentioned in any promenint book of that period the mention is breif. It is sometimes overuled by a companions decision. Its norms were never considred final. Scholars knew the Quran had made a clear recomadition and sometimes even a clear command, yet they would ignore it. The Quran gained its esteemed position and importance in the 800's. Also even though the Quran was after the 9th century important, the physical text had not gained it present status. Imam Bukari (collecter of Sahih Bukari) thought that the Quran could be read in the bathroom. Also in the state of nakedness one could read it. He also said someone in the state of ritual impurity could read the book. Also the wording of the Quran was not resepected. A look at the dome of the rock will revel this. Countless inscriptions from this period have Quranic verses. But many times two unrealted verses are patched together and made to look like one verse. Also phrases are freely inserted without warning. Variant readings of the Quran were allowed (eventully only ten). Right after Muhammad's death the Quran was seen by both his companions and there desendants as a symbol of God's affection rather than the word of God. It was never thought to be all God wanted to say, it was only proof he would and has spoken. And whenever I reread a book I have, it reitaretes The Quran in other words had very little authority and its status low in the "faith" period.
