Why The Month Of Rammadan Does Not Mean The Moon Of Rammadn
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Peace Soof,
belal, does it say full moon in that ayat or is that a parenthesis, you yourself added? Because then you are describing the moon/qamar not full moon/shahr.
I think that we all know the answer to your question.
In addition to the fact that 2133 makes it indisputable that "qamar" doesn't mean "full-moon" but "moon" in general, perhaps Belal should also consider the following passage
- And the moon we have measured it to appear in stages, until it returns like an old curved sheath.
This clearly shows that even the cresent stage is a called moon/"qamar". So just like in English, the moon/"qamar" is the moon in all its stages while the "hilal" is the cresent-moon and the "shahr" is the full-moon.
Peace,
Ayman
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belal, does it say full moon in that ayat or is that a parenthesis, you yourself added? Because then you are describing the moon/qamar not full moon/shahr.
What does the Kamer "BAZEKAN" mean?
Is it a Bright Moon or not?Now watch the scorching Moon Here
http//oblate-spheroid.blogspot.com/2008/02/leap-year-red-moon-lunar-eclipse.html
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Salaam belal
It seems that you are adopting the notion of "attack is the best way to defend", because you are launching a thread after the other attacking the notion of shahr = full moon, when ALL classical dictionaries agree that this is the original meaning, and from it are derived other words such as fully pregnant (shahiira), famous (mashhuur), shahr (period from a full moon to a full moon). Yet you evade talking about (crescent), and from where you got the notion of (sighting a crescent), even if (shahru ramadaan = month of Ramadan) . Here you have a verse where God swears by the moon when it is collected (this is the meaning of it-tasaq), but not by the crescent that starts your dear month
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And the Moon in her Fullness; (84-1He mentioned the "crescents" only once in the qur'aan in the form of a question, but the answer He gave had nothing to do with fasting or ramadaan
(٩
They ask thee concerning the New Moons. Say they are but signs to mark fixed periods of time for men, and for pilgrimage. It is no virtue if ye enter your houses from the back; it is virtue if ye fear Allah. Enter houses through the proper doors and fear Allah that ye may prosper. (2-189)
Thus? the mark of Ramadan month is the beginning of new moon.
Peace
But you conveniently translated "ahilla crescents" into (New Moons what about waning crescent? Is it not a crescent?), and added "ramadaan" and "new moon" in your conclusion, as if God mentioned hajj but forgot ramdaan and fasting, or did not know that there are two, and not just one crescent, although He says they ask you concerning crescents (not just New Moons). Moreover, the verse says that it is timings for people, so they have nothing "religious" about them, and should be for all people, not just those adopting a so-called islamic calendar.
Now tell me, where did you get the notion of crescent-sighting-for-Ramadan from?
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Salaam belal
It seems that you are adopting the notion of "attack is the best way to defend", because you are launching a thread after the other attacking the notion of shahr = full moon, when ALL classical dictionaries agree that this is the original meaning
What is your proof from Quran that Shahr = Full Moon, when the Quran says that Shaher=month and the year has 12 month and the baby 30 month cycle (9 month in womb + 21 month breastfeeding), and the widow should wait 4 month + 10 days before getting marraied again.
The Quran supports that Shaher is Month, but your CLASSICAL DICTIONARIES supports other meaning; Well you tell me who should I FOLLOW confused
THE QURAN....The CLASSICAL DICTIONARIES. Well let me think.
Ok..I'm done thinking; THE QURAN IS WHAT I WILL FOLLOW -
Peace Samia,
(
It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light, and measured out stages for it that ye might know the number of years and the calculation. No wise did Allah create this but in truth and righteousness. (Thus) doth He explain His Signs in detail, for those who understand. (5)
Is it not enough for you to understand from the well-established verse that the Moon and its Stages (Full, Crescent) are what Moslems ordered to use to calculate periods of time.
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And the Moon We have measured for it stages, till it returns like the old "3rgoon"(39)MOON Stages is what Submitter Use to Calculate Period of time, Months and years.
Now, if the above is true, how should we calculate?
Well, if we are calculating Moon Cycle, we should count the days from the begining of cycle untill the end.They ask thee concerning the crescents. Say they are but signs to mark fixed periods of time for men, and for pilgrimage. It is no virtue if ye enter your houses from the back; it is virtue if ye fear Allah. Enter houses through the proper doors and fear Allah that ye may prosper. (2-189)
What is the begining of the Moon Cycle is it the Waxing crescent or the wining crescent? confused
Well, I say the one that marks the begining of the Moon Cycle--the Waxing Crescent.Peace
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Peace all --
What is your proof from Quran that Shahr = Full Moon, when the Quran says that Shaher=month and the year has 12 month and the baby 30 month cycle (9 month in womb + 21 month breastfeeding), and the widow should wait 4 month + 10 days before getting marraied again.
I was looking into resolving this issue which is more complex than the inheritance verses.
2233 And the mothers breast feed their children two years
3114...and his weaning/separation in two years
4615...and his wearing/separation thirty months
30 months = 2 years?
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Peace all --
I was looking into resolving this issue which is more complex than the inheritance verses.
4615...and his wearing/separation thirty months
30 months = 2 years?
The carrying and his weaning is thirty months...46-15
Carrying in Womb + Breastfeeding=30 month
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My question is older.
OK!!!!
I did answer your Question
Peace Samia,
(
It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light, and measured out stages for it that ye might know the number of years and the calculation. No wise did Allah create this but in truth and righteousness. (Thus) doth He explain His Signs in detail, for those who understand. (5)
Is it not enough for you to understand from the well-established verse that the Moon and its Stages (Full, Crescent) are what Moslems ordered to use to calculate periods of time.
(
And the Moon We have measured for it stages, till it returns like the old "3rgoon"(39)MOON Stages is what Submitter Use to Calculate Period of time, Months and years.
Now, if the above is true, how should we calculate?
Well, if we are calculating Moon Cycle, we should count the days from the begining of cycle untill the end.They ask thee concerning the crescents. Say they are but signs to mark fixed periods of time for men, and for pilgrimage. It is no virtue if ye enter your houses from the back; it is virtue if ye fear Allah. Enter houses through the proper doors and fear Allah that ye may prosper. (2-189)
What is the begining of the Moon Cycle is it the Waxing crescent or the wining crescent? confused
Well, I say the one that marks the begining of the Moon Cycle--the Waxing Crescent.Peace
Now you answer mine
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Peace all --
The carrying and his weaning is thirty months...46-15
Carrying in Womb + Breastfeeding=30 month
Exactly, now we have a definition of "time" and direct correlation between months and years.
46-15...and his weight/pregnancy with him, and his wearing/separation thirty months, until when he reached his maturity/strength, and he reached forty years
2233 And the mothers breast feed their children two years
3114 ...and his weaning/separation in two years
30 months - weight/pregnancy with him = 2 years breast feeding
936... the number of months with Allah is twelve months
12 months = 1 year
24 months = 2 years
30 months - weight/pregnancy with him = 24 months
6 months = weight/pregnancy with himTherefore, in the first trimester during the straightening stage the fetus is soul/spirit less.
329 Then He straightened Him, and He blew in Him from His Soul/Spirit, and He made/put for you the hearing/listening, and the eye sights/knowledge, and the hearts , little (is) what you thank/be grateful.
Peace
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Salaam belal
So? Just because the cycle starts with a waxing crecsent, then you have to use it to calculate your months and years? How long (or actually how short) will be your year? How long is God's year/number of months? With your lunar year you will have less than 12 months by about 10-12 days. Do we count days by the sun or the moon? How long is a moon day? What is the timing of salat based on?
Peace all --
Exactly, now we have a definition of "time" and direct correlation between months and years.
46-15...and his weight/pregnancy with him, and his wearing/separation thirty months, until when he reached his maturity/strength, and he reached forty years
2233 And the mothers breast feed their children two years
3114 ...and his weaning/separation in two years
30 months - weight/pregnancy with him = 2 years breast feeding
936... the number of months with Allah is twelve months
12 months = 1 year
24 months = 2 years
30 months - weight/pregnancy with him = 24 months
6 months = weight/pregnancy with himTherefore, in the first trimester during the straightening stage the fetus is soul/spirit less.
329 Then He straightened Him, and He blew in Him from His Soul/Spirit, and He made/put for you the hearing/listening, and the eye sights/knowledge, and the hearts , little (is) what you thank/be grateful.
Peace
This is the (number of years and the count)...Thanks Nun
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Peace all --
Exactly, now we have a definition of "time" and direct correlation between months and years.
46-15...and his weight/pregnancy with him, and his wearing/separation thirty months, until when he reached his maturity/strength, and he reached forty years
2233 And the mothers breast feed their children two years
3114 ...and his weaning/separation in two years
30 months - weight/pregnancy with him = 2 years breast feeding
936... the number of months with Allah is twelve months
12 months = 1 year
24 months = 2 years
30 months - weight/pregnancy with him = 24 months
6 months = weight/pregnancy with himTherefore, in the first trimester during the straightening stage the fetus is soul/spirit less.
329 Then He straightened Him, and He blew in Him from His Soul/Spirit, and He made/put for you the hearing/listening, and the eye sights/knowledge, and the hearts , little (is) what you thank/be grateful.
Peace
God Bless you;
Please note that in the first 3 month of pragnancy, the women does not feel that she is carying any thing yet.(also, please note that the thirty month are moon month, which are little less than sun month)
Peace -
Salaam belal
So? Just because the cycle starts with a waxing crecsent, then you have to use it to calculate your months and years? How long (or actually how short) will be your year? How long is God's year/number of months?
With your lunar year you will have less than 12 months by about 10-12 days.
Yes if you compare with Sun Year; but why and what is the wisdom behind it is what I do not know; but I like the opinion in the following link
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596845.0
Do we count days by the sun or the moon? How long is a moon day? What is the timing of salat based on?
the Day is measuerd by Sun Cycle as the Quran says (when measuring when to fast and breakfast).
Hence, the week is measuerd by the Sun (7 sun cycles= week); but who many Sun Cycle (days) does the Month containes is what will depend on the Moon Cycle. -
Salaam belal
When God speaks of years, what does He mean? A lunar or a solar? How can the count of days is solar and that of a year is lunar?
Please note that in the first 3 month of pragnancy, the women does not feel that she is carying any thing yet.
I know you are addressing Nun, but i could not resist the question What do you mean? If she does not feel it, it does not count? How do you know she does not feel it?
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Peace all --
Exactly, now we have a definition of "time" and direct correlation between months and years.
46-15...and his weight/pregnancy with him, and his wearing/separation thirty months, until when he reached his maturity/strength, and he reached forty years
2233 And the mothers breast feed their children two years
3114 ...and his weaning/separation in two years
30 months - weight/pregnancy with him = 2 years breast feeding
936... the number of months with Allah is twelve months
12 months = 1 year
24 months = 2 years
30 months - weight/pregnancy with him = 24 months
6 months = weight/pregnancy with himTherefore, in the first trimester during the straightening stage the fetus is soul/spirit less.
329 Then He straightened Him, and He blew in Him from His Soul/Spirit, and He made/put for you the hearing/listening, and the eye sights/knowledge, and the hearts , little (is) what you thank/be grateful.
Peace
Peace.
How so? 3114 specifically mentions weaning/breastfeeding for 2 years.
2 years = 24 months, as 1 year = 12 months
If 4615 is speaking of both pregnancy and weaning (for 2 years) being equal to 30 months, this would make the total pregnancy equal to 6 months, which we know is not the case. Your reasoning on the "soul/spirit less" fetus is incorrect."He created you from one person, then created from him his mate. He sent down to you eight kinds of livestock. He creates you in your mothers' bellies, creation after creation, in trimesters of darkness. Such is God your Lord. To Him belongs all sovereignty. There is no other god beside Him. How could you deviate?" (al-Qur'an 396)
Here, it says He creates humans in 3 periods. Then, it says
"Then we developed the drop into an embryo (hanging), then developed the embryo (hanging) into a , then created the into bones, then covered the bones with flesh. We thus produce a new creature. Most blessed is God, the best creator." (al-Qur'an 2314)
So, how do we know at one point the creation comes alive? Al-Qur'an further explains
"Once I design him, and blow into him from My spirit, you shall yield to him." (al-Qur'an 3872)
Here, it is implied that Adam was not alive before God's spirit was blown into him. After Adam, we were all conceived through reproduction.
"As for the one who maintained her chastity, we blew into her from our spirit, and thus, we made her and her son a portent for the whole world." (al-Qur'an 2191)
Since Maryam was mentioned as conceiving Esa through The God's spirit, this spirit signified Esa's conception. That means that Esa (as well as the rest of humanity) was alive upon conception, he wasn't dead until the 2nd trimester. This is the case with all of us... During the first trimester, the neural tube forms, the child's gender is determined, and the heart and circulatory system are developed. These are what give the embryo it's "soul"/life. According to scientific studies, heartbeats can begin as early as FIVE WEEKS. So, how can the child be considered lifeless? The child becomes considered a "fetus" during the first trimester as well, around the 10th week. During this period, still in the first trimester, life is clearly evident...
Since in qur'anic terms having a "soul" is equivalent to having "life", then the fetus is definately not "soul/spirit less" during this time period. Also, since a general pregnancy lasts 40 weeks, you can't base a timetable on this. The conclusion of "40 weeks" is completely dependent on the cultural view of the "week", just like the concept of a "9 month" pregnancy is dependent on the cultural view of the "month". By the cultural standpoint, a pregnancy is equal to 9 months, but in reality, 40 weeks is more than 9 months...
Here's my question
If 30 days equals 1 month, and 12 months equals 1 year, then that would make one year equal to 360 days - the remaining days would roll over into a 13th month... Likewise, if 31 days are equal to 1 month, and 1 year equals 12 months, then 1 year would equal 372 days, which is actually MORE than a year... So, if your reasoning is correct about the "month-long fast" for shahru ramadhan, how would you know which months equal 30 days and which ones equal 31 based on al-Qur'an?
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace Nun,
Therefore, in the first trimester during the straightening stage the fetus is soul/spirit less.
329 Then He straightened Him, and He blew in Him from His Soul/Spirit, and He made/put for you the hearing/listening, and the eye sights/knowledge, and the hearts , little (is) what you thank/be grateful.Unfortunately, many sectarian women have killed their unborn babies prior to the 3rd month of pregnancy based on such speculations about the spirit. Are you willing to bear the burden of the killing of such babies based on your speculation about the spirit (a matter which we are clearly told not to speculate about)?
Please see the following link and other scientific evidence clearly showing that all the organs are formed in the first 8 weeks of pregnancy. In fact, the heart begins to beat in the 3rd week. By the 8th week the baby is extremely reactive to its environment and his sex is determined.
http//www.islam101.com/science/embryo.html
Peace,
Ayman