My answers to Ayman's Alligations
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Peace,
Thanks Farida and i see your point but I think the fast is symbolic an if God wants it generalized to a fast in the same sort of season that the Quran was revealed in, then i don't see too much hurt or incorrectness in that. I understand your analogy with an event in human history being on a specific date. But what if God chose the date by season in instead (a natural date, I guess) and told us to do it in that season. Again i don't see why that is so wrong or impossible. All in all I admit that there can be two possiblities. The one I propose, or a corrected luni-solar calendar, which would then have to be calibrated back to try make sure it's accurate with the pre-islamic one. Technically the pre-isalmic one would have moved 11 dasy back for about 3 years until the extra month was stuck in every 3 years. And even still it probably would account for the 3 day shift left over when everything was said and done. Again we all know there are problems with tihs lunar and even the luni-solar calendar. it either needs to be corrected (if that's possible keeping to the Qurani guidelines of only 12 months or we need to stop looking at Ramadan like a name and look at it as a concept. All in all this takes away some of the universality of the Quran (where anybody can pick it up without previous knowledge of specific cultural phenomena like this and still be able to study it and understand just with a knowledge of the concepts behind Arabic words and grammar). But in essence the Quan can be saying "We revealed this book during a month of summer (something universal to all of us albeit at different times in different places and to different degrees) so fast during a month of summer." (that is a paraphrase). And in such a case would that be so inappropriate?
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace,
Thanks Farida and i see your point but I think the fast is symbolic an if God wants it generalized to a fast in the same sort of season that the Quran was revealed in, then i don't see too much hurt or incorrectness in that. I understand your analogy with an event in human history being on a specific date. But what if God chose the date by season in instead (a natural date, I guess) and told us to do it in that season. Again i don't see why that is so wrong or impossible. All in all I admit that there can be two possiblities. The one I propose, or a corrected luni-solar calendar, which would then have to be calibrated back to try make sure it's accurate with the pre-islamic one. Technically the pre-isalmic one would have moved 11 dasy back for about 3 years until the extra month was stuck in every 3 years. And even still it probably would account for the 3 day shift left over when everything was said and done. Again we all know there are problems with tihs lunar and even the luni-solar calendar. it either needs to be corrected (if that's possible keeping to the Qurani guidelines of only 12 months or we need to stop looking at Ramadan like a name and look at it as a concept. All in all this takes away some of the universality of the Quran (where anybody can pick it up without previous knowledge of specific cultural phenomena like this and still be able to study it and understand just with a knowledge of the concepts behind Arabic words and grammar). But in essence the Quan can be saying "We revealed this book during a month of summer (something universal to all of us albeit at different times in different places and to different degrees) so fast during a month of summer." (that is a paraphrase). And in such a case would that be so inappropriate?
Godbless,
AnwarSalaam Anwar,
I believe my God is not unjust and all mankind are equal in His eyes. It?s only their deeds that separate them into the successful and the failures. I do not see how my God could sanction everyone alike to fast in extremely hot weather. ?Extreme? heat in London is the best time of year and a time to rejoice whereas extreme heat in India is dreaded time, is considered hellish , I do not see my God unfairly asking all to fast in Summer .
I see in your reply that you are driven by the desire to somehow solve the puzzle of the irregular counting of the months. I see that as a separate issue and, if we all put in a concerted effort towards calculating the real number of years that Noah lived we may end up with a solution to this puzzle. As you can see below there is no given calculation to the age of Noah, but we are left to work out the age of Noah, maybe there is a reason why its left vague2914 And We had sent Noah to his people, so he stayed with them one thousand less fifty years. Then the flood took them while they were wicked
Also Please check thisIn 31.14 it says ending of breastfeeding is (within two ?am?) It does not say two complete years (am) as is said in 46.15 two complete hawl.
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Peace,
You are right about the driving force that is what started all this years ago for me. But as for different local conditions, well God gives us different conditions and things to deal with in life period. Does that make him unfair? Does he half to dish out the same thing to everyone, uniformly? In the next couple of years all of us will be fasting in August and June. This is very, very hot for many in the world and very cold for others. And a lunar Ramadan falls in different seasons all around the world as well, sometimes crazy hot or dry in one place and not so much in others. So is that unfair? If it is too hard to fast we can make it up, so I don't see the point if the summer being extremely hot in one place or not so hot in another being an issue of God being unfair.
But Noah's age is plainly 950 years. This type of style exists in all langauges where one refers to a number by rounding up and subtracting. That is not unclear at all.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace,
You are right about the driving force that is what started all this years ago for me. But as for different local conditions, well God gives us different conditions and things to deal with in life period. Does that make him unfair? Does he half to dish out the same thing to everyone, uniformly? In the next couple of years all of us will be fasting in August and June. This is very, very hot for many in the world and very cold for others. And a lunar Ramadan falls in different seasons all around the world as well, sometimes crazy hot or dry in one place and not so much in others. So is that unfair? If it is too hard to fast we can make it up, so I don't see the point if the summer being extremely hot in one place or not so hot in another being an issue of God being unfair.
Godbless,
AnwarSalaam Anwar,
When you see a person, in possession of more than another, this does not necessarily mean that he is a favoured one. Inequality exist in this world, like when you see a child born with deformity and you ask what was his fault, a question I could never answer. But then Satan imparts on you the illusion of unfairness and whispers ideas how to make this world an ideal world.
However on the question of fasting as I understand, when it rotates everyone has their share of bad and good seasons and the experience is designed to develop empathy and understanding for those who starve for lack of food, if you think carefully, it is linked to feeding poor when missed.But Noah's age is plainly 950 years. This type of style exists in all langauges where one refers to a number by rounding up and subtracting. That is not unclear at all.
Where does it say in the Qur'an that Noah's age is 950 years?
Just imagine what a curse such a long age would be for a person who has to go on living while all his folks passed away and he finds himself among one after another new alien generations, hmm
Can you imagine a human living for nearly a millennium?peace
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I hope many members, who put their trust in Arabic speakers would take note of this as, I too feel that Arabs somehow think they have a god-given authority to manipulate verses of the Qur?an simply because the Qur?an is in Arabic, a language native to them.
Then there are others who have taken 'Pharisees' as their gods and do not use their common sense at all. They end up asking the most ridiculous questions just for the sake of quizzing others.
i would remind them 399 Say "O ye People of the Book! Why obstruct ye those who believe, from the path of Allah, Seeking to make it crooked, while ye were yourselves witnesses (to Allah's Covenant)? but Allah is not unmindful of all that ye do."Salaam farida
If you do not understad Arabic, how do you know that those Arabic speakers you refer to manipulate verses of the quran? What's your reference your own understanding or a specific translation (made by a native or near native speaker of Arabic) or just by following the majority and the familiar understanding?
Reminds me of a neigbour who did not know any English, and who said about her son in the secondary school in Khartoum that "he spoke very good English, just like an Englishman" -
Salaam farida
If you do not understad Arabic, how do you know that those Arabic speakers you refer to manipulate verses of the quran? What's your reference your own understanding or a specific translation (made by a native or near native speaker of Arabic) or just by following the majority and the familiar understanding?
Reminds me of a neigbour who did not know any English, and who said about her son in the secondary school in Khartoum that "he spoke very good English, just like an Englishman"Salaam Samia
You got a point there, from now on I need to shut up and not doubt any Arabic speaker as I have no knowledge of the language, lets say ignore them, and follow my instincts.
peace -
Where does it say in the Qur'an that Noah's age is 950 years?
Just imagine what a curse such a long age would be for a person who has to go on living while all his folks passed away and he finds himself among one after another new alien generations, think
Can you imagine a human living for nearly a millennium?Like I said this is stylistic. You can say thamma ilaahun waahidun/ahadun wa huwa allaahu. (there is only one god and he is God) or you can say laa ilaaha illa allahu/a (There is no god, but God). So as you can see (and this is common to all language) a wrong idea is put forward in an absolute way, and then a but or except follows it to clarify that there is an exeption. I've red many things like this in English and a few in Arabic as well. saying a thousand minus 50 = 950. Now whether that is a curse for a person to live that long, is your perception. According to the Bible (and no we don't follow everything in the bible) everyone back then lived that long. Why? Who knows. We know from the Quran of the boys who lived for 300 years in the cave. What makest this possible? Some environmental factor that existed back then and in that cave, probably, but if God gives someone this age, why should we say it is a curse? Maybe it was a blessing and gave them great wisdom beyond our belief. I can, but I could never imagine it perfectuly unless I experienced it and I probably won't. But I have these questions to ask you as well. Could you imagine a woman having a child without a husband? Could you imagine a staff turning into a snake? Boys living in a cave for 5 hundred years? And to give you an anomly that you can see in our time, people crying sharp crystals or stones? http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W_smOrubuo
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5_Rj2zKMy4&feature=relatedEverything that happens has it's reasons whether we come to know them in our lives or not.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Like I said this is stylistic. You can say thamma ilaahun waahidun/ahadun wa huwa allaahu. (there is only one god and he is God) or you can say laa ilaaha illa allahu/a (There is no god, but God). So as you can see (and this is common to all language) a wrong idea is put forward in an absolute way, and then a but or except follows it to clarify that there is an exeption. I've red many things like this in English and a few in Arabic as well. saying a thousand minus 50 = 950. Now whether that is a curse for a person to live that long, is your perception. According to the Bible (and no we don't follow everything in the bible) everyone back then lived that long. Why? Who knows.
Everything that happens has it's reasons whether we come to know them in our lives or not.Godbless,
AnwarSalaam Anwar,
I was not disagreeing with the stylistic calculation and I do agree with you that long age being a curse is only my perception of it. I know that Noah?s same age has been mentioned in the Bible and I do not, altogether reject the Bible, but I wanted to draw you attention to 2914 which, according to my understanding does not give away the age of Noah but the time he spent with his people before the Deluge. As he lived after the storm, I believe, his age (?til he died) is not given in the Qur?an.
Also if we read the story of Noah we also do not see him, in anyway, living uncommonly long. He did not outlive his son due to long life, but his son perished in the storm. So he had his family, except his son, with him.
2176 NOAH, when he cried (to Us) aforetime We listened to his (prayer) and delivered him and his family from great distress.
Therefore it is my understanding that we have to calculate the time Noah spent with his people in terms of what we consider a year made of 12 months and I believe the years calculated in surah . 2914 are multiplied between two type of calculations for the year we see as ?sanatin? and ?AAaman ?Walaqad arsalna noohan ila qawmihi falabitha feehim alfa sanatin illa khamseena AAaman faakhathahumu alttoofanu wahum thalimoona
We know from the Quran of the boys who lived for 300 years in the cave. What makest this possible? Some environmental factor that existed back then and in that cave, probably, but if God gives someone this age, why should we say it is a curse? Maybe it was a blessing and gave them great wisdom beyond our belief. I can, but I could never imagine it perfectuly unless I experienced it and I probably won't. But I have these questions to ask you as well. Could you imagine a woman having a child without a husband? Could you imagine a staff turning into a snake? Boys living in a cave for 5 hundred years?
Of course I do not dispute the above and those in the cave were preserved by the God1817,18 and ....? They are among our wondrous signs? 189 nor do I dispute the account of Mary
A stick turning into a snake, if we take it literally then too I believe it, but I see that narration more in the terms of two sides putting forward their supporting arguments.
The sorcerers were using illusionary methods, like the ones you see used by the politicians and Hollywood movies and many intellectuals who use deceptive theories to dominate the scene in all areas. They have no real power and, if we all use the support in the book of guidance we can defeat the pharaohs of today.And to give you an anomly that you can see in our time, people crying sharp crystals or stones? http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W_smOrubuo
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5_Rj2zKMy4&feature=relatedThat is a strange video about tears of crystal and stones; I am waiting to see when it make world news headlines as it can?t go unnoticed if it?s really happening.
peace -
That is a strange video about tears of crystal and stones; I am waiting to see when it make world news headlines as it can?t go unnoticed if it?s really happening
Many things that really happen go unnoticed.
And as it concerns Noah, again if we look at the Bible (and we are not obligated to believe anything beyond Moses' and Jesus' words therein) everynoe back then was living that long. He is the oldest person besides Adam (if you believe he is a person, and I don't believe that Adam is a person) to be mentioned in the Quran. Now many of the prophets mentioned in the Quarn don't have the biographies of the people around them mentioend eithers. So The Quran is giving us what we need to know, and the fact that the Bible confirms this and has everyone living that long back then, well I think there was something going on evironmentally that is not going on any more.
Walaqad arsalna noohan ila qawmihi falabitha feehim alfa sanatin illa khamseena AAaman
This is the Arabic. It is interesting because it could be translated as 1000 sanah BUT 50 aaam. Now sanah is used first and aam is used second. And that could say something, but in this case sanah in Cl. Arabic is if anything just more connected with the natural seasonal year, and 50 possibly with years according to human calendars. I'll look into the sanah/aam difference some more too. However, I'm not going to ecpect much because it is possible that these are all synonyms deriving from different people's view of a year, for some it is more connected to a calendar (poss. the aam connection), to others more with the seaons and crops (the sanah connection), to others, the full circle of an event like the solstice (possibly the hawl connection).
Godbless,
Anwar