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A Perspective on Salah

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  • U Offline
    U Offline
    uq
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Peace,

    What follows is my understanding of salaah based on the following verses

    1. 2014
    2. 3831-32
    3. 20130
    4. 1778-79
    5. 17110
    6. 2238-239
    7. 489
    8. 1911
    9. 11114
    10. 339
    11. 2144 and 2149/150
    12. 5039-40
    13. 4102
    14. 317
    15. 5118
    16. 443 and 56
    17. 2458
    18. 3018
    19. 4103

    I?ll explain my understanding of each verse

    1. 2014;
      a. Salaah is remembrance of God.

    2. 3831-32;
      a. In 3831 God says that the horses were brought before Solomon at al-3ashiyy. The dictionary lists two meanings for this word
      i. The time from sunset onwards, and,
      ii. The time at the end of the day when the sun nears the horizon.
      We can verify which one is correct by reading the following verse where Solomon says ???I enjoyed the material things more than I enjoyed worshiping my Lord, until the sun was gone.? Thus, the horses were brought to him before the setting of the sun, thus, al-3ashiyy, in 3832, means, I believe, the time at the end of the day when the sun approaches the horizon.
      b. I am inclined to think that what Solomon meant by ?dhikru rabbi?, in 3832, was salaah. Because, if we were to think about it, one can remember God at any time, however, Solomon said that he missed remembering God as if he missed a specific allocated time to remember God.

    3. 20130;
      a. Tasbeeh is done at the following times;
      i. Before sunrise
      ii. Before sunset
      iii.?aanaa? al-layl
      iv.atraaf an-nahaar
      b. Regarding ?aanaa? al-layl and atraaf an-nahaar, I understand it like this
      i. They are either used together as a phrase to mean ?all day and all night.?
      ii. Or they both carry separate meanings, in which case I understand it like this

    1. ?aanaa? al-layl means parts/hours of the night.
    2. atraaf an-nahaar means the edges of the day.
      c. atraaf is a plural signifying three or more, but there are only two edges in the day, i.e. the start of the day and its end. Only if we insert a third period in the day to conform with the plurality of atraaf, then it makes sense to me. I would place this third period at mid-day as per my understanding of 2238 (see below). However, if ?aanaa? al-layl means parts/hours of the night, then I understand this to mean tahajjud (see 1779 below). I reckon the last alternative is to say that ?aanaa? al-layl wa atraaf an-nahaar signify all day and all night, so God is telling us to remember Him and glorify Him constantly. It is also important not to ignore the preposition min in the verse, ?wa min ?aanaa? al-layl?, which means, ?and in parts of the night.?
    1. 1778-79;
      a. We are told to establish salaah from duluk al-shams to ghasaq al-layl
      i. duluk al-shams this has two meanings;
    1. the time when the sun approaches the horizon, and
    2. the time when the sun begins to decline at mid-day.
      ii. ghasaq al-layl this has two meanings;
    3. the darkness of the beginning of night, and
    4. the dead of night, when there is absolutely no sunlight in the sky, (which corresponds to Astronomical Twilight End).
      b. Now, if duluk al-shams means the sun?s decline at mid-day, then ? as I see it ? one has to perform salaah, according to 1778, from mid-day to night-time continuously! This doesn?t seem right, which is why I believe duluk al-shams is the time when the sun approaches the horizon, this is supported by the lesson God taught us about Solomon in verses 3831-32.
      c. ghasaq al-layl, as I understand it, is either the beginning of night when there is a little light in the sky (corresponding to somewhere in between Civil and Nautical Twilight End), or, the point at which there is no light at all (ATE).
      d. It is very important to note here that the verse says ??aqim al-salaah li duluk al-shams ?ilaa ghasaq al-layl?, i.e. ?establish salaah from the decline of the sun to night-time?. Thus, one uses the entire period to perform salaah. God didn?t say ?establish salaah in between the decline of the sun and night-time.?
      e. We are told to establish the practice of reading Quran at dawn.
      f. Reading/studying Quran at night is superfluous, this is mentioned in verse 1779, ?wa min al-layl fa tahajjad bi hi naafilatan laka?
      i. tahajjad; to stay up at night,
      ii. naafilah; something which is done for extra credit, which isn?t compulsory.
      I believe ?bi hi? refers to the Quran. Therefore, I understand it like this ?and stay up at night studying/reading the Quran as a bonus for yourself.?
    1. 17110;
      a. One?s tone of voice should not be too loud in salaah nor should it be too low, rather, it should be in between, ?wa la tajhar bi salaatika wa la tukhaafit bi haa?.
      i. jahara has two meanings which fit this context
    1. to announce, or,
    2. to raise one?s voice.
      ii. khaafata has only one meaning in this context
    3. to lower one?s voice.
      Khaafata has the exclusive meaning of to lower one?s voice; I couldn?t find a meaning of khaafata which means to make private or, secret. Thus, I believe 17110 refers to the tone of one?s voice in salaah.
    1. 2238-239;
      a. If one can assume that the plural salawaat is used to refer to the frequency of salaah in one day, then there are definitely at least three salaahs a day, because the plural salawaat is used in verse 238.
      b. I understand wustaa as being used as a preposition, specifically, in the temporal sense. Thus, I assume al-salaah al-wustaa is in the middle of the day. Wustaa is a feminine comparative adjective which means the middle most, thus it must be in ?the middle? of the two other salaahs. So, in my opinion, it?s either in the middle of the night, or, in the middle of the day, and I assume it?s at mid-day.
      c. I understand the verb qaama as to stand. So, one should be standing in salaah as per ??wa-quumuu lillaahi qaaniteen.?
      d. In a state of fear, one can perform salaah while on the move, whether walking, driving, or, riding. This lends weight to the idea that salaah is primarily remembrance and commemoration of God, and not a prescribed set of actions; verse 2014 supports this.

    2. 489;
      a. Tasbeeh is done at the following times;
      i. al-bukrah; this has two meanings

    1. the beginning of the day after sun rise, or,
    2. the time between first light and sun rise.
      ii. al-?aseel;
    3. the time between 3asr and al-3ashiy.

    1911;
    a. Tasbeeh is done at the following times;
    i. al-bukrah this has two meanings (see above)
    ii. al-3ashiy

    1. the time at the end of the day when the sun nears the horizon.
    1. 11114;
      a. We are told to establish salaah at both edges/ends of the day.
      b. ?wa zulafan min al-layl? zulaf is the plural of zulfah; it has the following meanings
      i. a degree
      i. a level
      iii.closeness
      iv.a part of the night
      v. the first part of the night
      vi.the hours in which night and day meet
      The latter four significations seem to fit the context of the verse, so ?zulafan min al-layl? can mean one of the following
    1. close to the night (at the end of the day, just before the sun sets)
    2. parts of the night
    3. the first part of the night (before CTE or NTE)
    4. the hours in which night and day meet
      Numbers 1, 3, and 4 involve the same times, more or less. Number 2 would mean that one should perform salaah during parts of the night. However, the meaning is clear to me, because most of the meanings of zulaf speak about the hours when night merges into day and vice versa.
    1. 339;
      a. I understand the verb qaama in this verse as to stand. So, one should be standing in salaah.

    2. 2144, and 2149-150;
      a. If qiblah means the direction one faces in salaah, then the instruction to face al-masjid al-haraam occurs in these verses.
      b. The fact that the instruction ?fa walli wajhaka shatr al-masjid al-haraam? occurs (in the 2nd person singular) three times within a space of six verses is, in my opinion, uncanny. This fact is not to be ignored.

    3. 5039-40;
      a. Tasbeeh is done at the following times;
      i. before sunrise
      ii. before sunset
      iii.at night
      iv.after sujuud

    4. 4102;
      a. Salaah involves sujuud.

    5. 317;
      a. One can choose to seek forgiveness before dawn.

    6. 5118;
      a. One can choose to seek forgiveness before dawn.

    7. 443 and 56;
      a. Purification for salaah.

    8. 2458;
      a. The times and names of two salaahs confirmed salat al-fajr and salat al-3ishaa?
      i. al-fajr first light (i.e. when the sun begins to light the sky)
      ii. al-3ishaa? the time at the end of the day when the sun declines (please note, as I see it, 3ishaa? and 3ashiyy mean the same thing)

    1 3018;
    a. Praise is to God at al-3ashiyy and at al-zuhr;
    i. al-3ashiy the time at the end of the day when the sun declines
    ii. al-zuhr mid-day
    b. I cannot use this verse to prove that al-salah al-wusta is at mid-day, however, seeing that it was used together with another salaah time (al-3ashiyy), and also based on my interpretation of 2238, I use this verse to support my case, but it doesn?t prove it.

    1. 4103;
      a. Salaah has been prescribed at specific times.

    Conclusions

    I?ve split my conclusions into four parts

    1. What is salaah?

    Salaah is remembering God.

    1. Number of salaahs

    There are at least three salaahs because God uses the plural salawaat.

    1. Times of salaahs

    I am almost certain of the times of two salaahs, that is, salaat al-fajr and salaat al-3ishaa?. As I see it, salat al-fajr starts at first light (i.e. when the sun?s light begins to light the sky), and ends after sunrise at the beginning of the day, this takes between one, and one and a half hours. Salaat al-3ishaa? starts at the end of the day before sunset, and ends when there is no or little light in the sky from the sun, this also takes approximately between one and one and a half hours (depending on geographical location as well as time of year). Now, because the Quran uses the plural salawaat (which I believe refers to the frequency of salaahs in one day), there must be at least one more salaah. I base this third salaah partly on assumption and partly on evidence. Based on the way I have interpreted 2238 and 3018 (in points 6 and 1, I believe this third salah is in the middle of the day, i.e. al-zuhr, however, I could not find the duration of this salaah in the Quran. Perhaps, as with the other two salaahs, one can assume a duration of one hour.

    1. Method and content of salaahs

    Method
    One should be standing and facing al-masjid al-haraam.

    Content
    Salaah definitely involves saying things (see 443). What are these things?

    We read many times in the Quran God giving the instruction (in the 2nd person singular) to commemorate Him (tasbeeh) almost always at the times of the setting of the sun and its rising (see points 3, 7, 8, and 12). These times happen to be the same times of salaah, i.e., the twilight periods. This, to me, is more than a coincidence. Naturally, one is therefore inclined to believe that the chief aspect of salaah is tasbeeh, or, commemoration of God.

    Moreover, 2441 mentions salaah and tasbeeh synonymously.

    Along with tasbeeh, the following aspects may be considered one can remember the things that God has done for us, and the things that He has given us, and give thanks to Him. One can reflect. One can ask for forgiveness. One can read from the Quran; note, reading the Quran at dawn is definitely a part of salaat al-fajr as per 1778. Please note, I cannot prove that any of these things are a part of salaah (except reading the Quran at dawn). Nevertheless, they seem praiseworthy to me, plus, the Quran does give instructions to do these things, but they are not mentioned with salaah.

    All these things are to be done with a moderate tone of voice.

    Sujuud is definitely a part of salaah (see point 13), but no specific pattern has been given.

    Most importantly, we must show reverence (khushuu3) in salaah. I guess this is the foundation of salaah that one?s heart should be at peace, and be reverent of God. During salaah one must remember that we are going to be resurrected and brought before God (245-46). We must show qunuut, i.e., humbleness (223.

    Salaah is, after all, a mental activity not a physical one, so I reckon the condition of the heart is very important, it?s important that the heart be sound.

    Achieving this state of mental peace and reverence of God doesn?t happen within five minutes, which is why I see much wisdom in salaah being between one and one and a half hours long, ?alaa bi dhikrillaahi tatma?inn al-quluub.

    This is my understanding of salaah.

    Please remember 1736.

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    • WakasW Offline
      WakasW Offline
      Wakas
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      peace uq,

      I recommend the following www.mypercept.co.uk/articles/slw.htm

      All information is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should always seek knowledge and verify for themselves when possible: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11.

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      • U Offline
        U Offline
        uq
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Waqas,

        An interesting article.

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        • WakasW Offline
          WakasW Offline
          Wakas
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          I would have gone through your original post with a detailed reply, but most of the mistakes you made have already been discussed in the forum. Mainly to do with timing, and equating others things as "salat" without any basis.

          But I did like your approach somewhat.

          All information is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should always seek knowledge and verify for themselves when possible: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11.

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          • U Offline
            U Offline
            uq
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            Peace Wakas,

            I haven?t read through the forum. However, I do accept your criticism. I myself have not yet fully grasped the meaning of certain phrases with relation to the times of salaah. My assumptions were necessary to provide a consistent theory.

            I also accept that other verses which speak of salaah (and those which use the verb sallaa), can present themselves as an inconsistency in my salaah theory; I do not know how best these two groups of verses should be reconciled ? if they should be reconciled at all. Nevertheless, I?ve identified three positions which one can take in the face of such inconsistencies. The first is that I use the above verses to interpret the other verses which speak of salaah (and those which use the verb sallaa). The second is that I do the exact opposite. Or I can say that each can stand independently of each other and should therefore not influence one another in interpretation. So far in my studies, I accept the thrid option.

            My studies are on-going.

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            • D Offline
              D Offline
              drfazl
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              br uq

              http//1) 2014;
              a. Salaah is remembrance of God.

              You are to the point. Prayer is remembrance of God.

              http//2) 3831-32;
              3832, means, I believe, the time at the end of the day when the sun approaches the horizon. Solomon said that he missed remembering God as if he missed a specific allocated time to remember God.

              Sulaiman had greater appreciation for the worldly excellence, from the time the horses arrived until the dusk, when suddenly the prophet remembers his fault of not revering Allah and that shaitan had deviated his mind from remembering Allah more than of the worldly things.

              http//God is telling us to remember Him and glorify Him constantly. It is also important not to ignore the preposition min in the verse, ?wa min ?aanaa? al-layl?, which means, ?and in parts of the night.?

              As God forgives and bestows us peace and sleep despite our sins all day and during most of the wakeful hours Allah ordains upon us to spend some time at least in remembering and glorifying Him. Allah does not want man to think the religion, His Way is tough for him

              http//17110;
              One?s tone of voice should not be too loud in salaah nor should it be too low, rather, it should be in between, ?wa la tajhar bi salaatika wa la tukhaafit bi haa?.
              I believe 17110 refers to the tone of one?s voice in salaah.

              Too loud means ' Not to make a show of your prayer - in your remembrance of God '
              Too low means ' not to be in slumber when in prayer - in your remembrance of God '

              http//2238-239;

              sialaah is primarily remembrance and commemoration of God, and not a prescribed set of actions;

              And not a prescribed set of time coding too

              http//11114;
              We are told to establish salaah at both edges/ends of the day and parts of the night

              Establish the practice of regular remembrance either day or night; all day and all wakeful periods during the night or the day.

              http//10) 339;
              a. I understand the verb qaama in this verse as to stand. So, one should be standing in salaah.

              standing steadfast; not physical standing

              http//13) 4102;
              a. Salaah involves sujuud.

              'Sujud' means absolute belief in and abject surrender to the will of Allah in all matters of life on this earth.

              http//16) 443 and 56;
              a. Purification for salaah.

              Purify from being 'shirk'y and slumber.

              http//Content
              Salaah definitely involves saying things (see 443). What are these things?

              Allah says Never say anything that you do not do if you are a mumin; and Allah hates anyone saying so; quran is for standing up as a model for the mankind to live in this world in the path of Allah, which position by itself shall speak the glory of Allah

              http//Moreover, 2441 mentions salaah and tasbeeh synonymously.

              salaah means remembering Allah e.g at times of crisis and at times of victory; and tasbeeh means saying His Glory when you are delivered of it or receive good news from Him before even you 'rejoice' over 'your victory'. When you rejoice at that moment of time you commit shirk as if the victory is your own. So all time tasbeeh and remembrance is very important, except the sleeping hours day or night. This will make us getting used to be in His Memory all the time.

              http//Most importantly, we must show reverence (khushuu3) in salaah. I guess this is the foundation of salaah that one?s heart should be at peace, and be reverent of God. During salaah one must remember that we are going to be resurrected and brought before God (245-46). We must show qunuut, i.e., humbleness (223.

              quniit and ruku and sujud all various degrees of humility and belief. It is the status of heart and not the acting as we see in physical salat.
              And br uq most of your post I agree; what I have written is my addition to your enlightened pondering.

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              • P Offline
                P Offline
                pcborg
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Salaam,

                Check out my article on salaah... you can find it at www.detailedquran.com, We seem to see things in a similar way, however you may find my document answers some questions for you.

                salaam

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                • U Offline
                  U Offline
                  uq
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  drfazl,

                  Appreciate the feedback.

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                  • U Offline
                    U Offline
                    uq
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    Peace,

                    Two and a half years after my initial post, I feel that I need to update the community with my latest understanding of salah.

                    Ninety percent of what I posted back in 2008 still holds firm. That is

                    I still think that salah is a time in which one remembers God by giving thanks, asking for forgiveness, being aware of the Resurrection, recognising the magnificence of God, and like matters.

                    I still think that one should be standing and facing al-masjid al-haram (which I believe to be in Makkah).

                    I still think that salah involves physical prostration and bowing with no particular pattern.

                    I still think that the tone of voice during salah should neither be suppressed nor manifested.

                    I still think that the evening salah begins a little before sunset and ends at nightfall.

                    I still think that the dawn salah begins long before daybreak and ends a little after sunrise.

                    The only modification in my understanding of salah involves its frequency I no longer think that the afternoon salah exists at all. I couldn't satisfy myself - based solely on 2238 - that an afternoon salah exists. This is mainly because the 2 verses which specify the temporal loci of salah (11114 and 177 both mention the dawn and evening but neither of them gives a mention to the afternoon. So, my logic is that if an afternoon salah did exist then its temporal locus would have been given the same significance as the other two; but it hasn't.

                    It should be noted that this interpretation could very well be subjected to bias because 2 salahs are fewer than 3, and I'm a lazy guy, so go figure. On the other hand, my argument could very well be based on sound reasoning as I've presented it above.

                    This would still leave a number of points unexplained. Of which

                    1. How does one explain al-wustaa in 2238?

                    2. How does one explain the use of the plural al-salawaat throughout the Quran (which signifies 3 or more)?

                    My studies are on-going.

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                    • WakasW Offline
                      WakasW Offline
                      Wakas
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      peace bro,

                      You may find this useful http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.html

                      All information is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should always seek knowledge and verify for themselves when possible: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11.

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                      • K Offline
                        K Offline
                        kgwithnob
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602385.msg279118#msg279118

                        Peace,
                        Khalil

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                        • U Offline
                          U Offline
                          uq
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          Wakas,

                          Thanks for the link bro. Your article shows a great level of deep and cohesive research with rational inferences.

                          I have never had a doubt that sujood can imply a mental state of humility, reverence, and subordination; this has been one of its meanings in the Arabic language even before the Quran came down.

                          But I also have no doubt that sujood can also imply physical prostration; this is also one of its meanings in the Arabic language.

                          In my view, neither viewpoint can be invalidated; they both hold true.

                          Perhaps performing physical prostration is so synonymous with mental humility and reverence that doing one necessitates the occurrence of the other.

                          When I perform salah, I try to attain a state of mental sujood, and I also perform physical prostrations, so which ever of the two meanings The Author intended, I am in compliance either way.

                          I have read your previous article on salah and it is very interesting, however, I am still unsure as to your understanding. What do you mean by bond? Or, if I may be so direct, what exactly do you do during the times of sunrise and sunset?

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                          • WakasW Offline
                            WakasW Offline
                            Wakas
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            peace bro,

                            Nice to see you post.

                            In my view, neither viewpoint can be invalidated; they both hold true.

                            I agree, hence at the end I said "It simply means that no credible argument for SJD=prostration and therefore prostration during upholding/establishing the salat can be made using The Quran.".

                            ...so which ever of the two meanings The Author intended, I am in compliance either way.

                            I agree. When it comes to personal preferences for one how supplicates, prays, thanks/praises God etc I have no issue whatsoever.
                            My only issue is if someone says AQ says SJD=prostration and/or tells others they must do it etc. As a side note I recommend to all, the next time someone says this to you, simply ask them the points raised in the article, e.g. 4102, and you will soon see the level of study/analysis that they have done.

                            Bond see meanings 4-7

                            As per my understanding The regular/timed salat/bond is for the mumineen. It can be individually done or as a group. It would involve reading/reciting/study/oration/reflection of The Quran.

                            Upholding/establishing the bond is directly related to knowing what the bond entails. One goes with the other, hence the command for those upholding The Quran, the mumineen.

                            All information is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should always seek knowledge and verify for themselves when possible: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11.

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                            • U Offline
                              U Offline
                              uq
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              Thanks Wakas, it's nice to be back.

                              I definitely think that reading/studying Quran can be an aspect of salah; this is what I do at dawn (whenever I can overcome the gravity of sleep!).

                              How do you understand tasbeeh?

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                              • WakasW Offline
                                WakasW Offline
                                Wakas
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7365.msg56324#msg56324

                                AFAIK when SBH is mentioned at specific times it is always in the singular. And if we take the times literally and either as salat or part of it, I found it impossible to make them work, thus they are likely hyperbole/idiomatic statements.

                                All information is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should always seek knowledge and verify for themselves when possible: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11.

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                                • U Offline
                                  U Offline
                                  uq
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  Yes, I agree that it is hard to make all the specified times of tasbeeh fit with the times of salah; total consistency doesn't exist. Nevertheless, because there is still some correlation (e.g. "before the rising of the sun and before its setting&quot I choose to consider tasbeeh a part of salah.

                                  What's your position on 56?

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                                  • WakasW Offline
                                    WakasW Offline
                                    Wakas
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    There are two aspects to the SBH question

                                    1. IF one takes SBH when mentioned along with a time as = salat, then can one make them fit time-wise? I consider this impossible and I have not read an article attempting to do so.

                                    2. What is SBH? Once we understand this, we can determine if upholding/establishing the regular/timed salat is an act of SBH itself or not. Thus, potentially making "SBH is part of salat" moot.

                                    My take on 56 is the same as the commonly accepted translation.

                                    All information is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should always seek knowledge and verify for themselves when possible: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11.

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                                    • thsT Offline
                                      thsT Offline
                                      ths
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      Salaam uq,

                                      I really enjoyed your article on salah. I think you've done some great research here and I'm glad to say that I'm in agreement with you on most of your interpretations.

                                      I also think that salah is mainly about remembrance. Remembrance through asking for forgiveness, mercy, direction, and through praise and the study of the Quran.

                                      I also think that tasbih is an important part of the salah. I'm also on the fence about tasbih, but I think that the way it is mentioned is thematically connected to salah, and I don't think it is a coincidence that tasbih has always been a part of salah as we know it today. I believe despite being a part of salah, it can be done outside of salah as well.

                                      I also think that salah involves standing and facing masjid al-haram in Makkah.

                                      I also think that salah involves the physical acts of prostration, bowing, and standing, in no particular order or frequency. However I do believe salah should be ended at prostration.

                                      I also believe that salah is mainly a matter of the heart.

                                      However, I believe that there are either 3 or 5 timings for salah during the day. I've undertaken my own studies and posted them here, but they are old and in need of updating.

                                      Anyway good job. Keep at it, and please keep posting your thoughts/research!

                                      فَاسْتَبِقُوا الْخَيْرَاتِ
                                      So strive as in a race in all virtues! 5:48

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                                      • U Offline
                                        U Offline
                                        uq
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        Salaam ths!

                                        It pleases me that you enjoyed the article.

                                        I am also quite intrigued that we are in agreement concerning most aspects of salah.

                                        The problem of tasbeeh is one which I also faced during my studies. I resolved the problem by the following 2 arguments

                                        1. A temporal locus must be given in relation to the command "aqim al-salah", thus, if the Designer of Nebulae mentions a time of day or night (e.g. al-aseel, al-bukrah, aanaa' al-layl) without issuing the command "aqim al-salah", then that time quite simply, in my opinion, does not refer to salah.

                                        2. Tasbeeh is clearly something which we are instructed to do at many points during the day and night, some of which coincide with the times of salah, this tasbeeh is also to be done within salah itself, as well as outside salah.

                                        I also end salah with a prostration, if nothing but as a mark of respect and reverence.

                                        On another note, I know I bang on about this all the time, but I'll mention it again regardless. Free-minds.org is a massive blessing from God, it brings the believers together from all 4 corners of the earth who otherwise would probably not have known about each other. Free-minds.org also serves as a platform for the testing of ideas and for the refinement or rejection thereof.

                                        I am truly grateful to God for this technological blessing.

                                        Usamah

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                                        • U Offline
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                                          uq
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          Furthermore, I would not necessarily restrict tasbeeh to the mere utterance of words, but I would also include in its scope one's actual cognizance of the magnificence and of the irreproducible uniqueness of God, the Definer of Time, the Proportioner of Space, the Giver of Existence, the Qualifier of Matter, the Quantifier of Energy, the Designer of Nebulae...

                                          http//www.google.com/search?q=nebulae&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=wW7&rls=org.mozillaen-USofficial&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=zQBXTqi5Ece2hQfHiPSaDA&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CBQQ_AUoAQ&biw=1032&bih=599

                                          "wa-in min shay'in illaa yusabbihu bi-hamdih"

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