Who is one of - Al-kitaab?
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Any proof
peaceSalaams afridi,
proof of what?
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I see that you did NOT read the thread...so here is what I posted in the thread http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596838.210
Salaam Alaikum
From a Quranic perspective People of the Book NOT 'Jews and Christians'
The People of The Book / Al Kitab are the 19 Prophets mentioned in Sura Al Anam 683 - 689
These were the men to whom We gave THE BOOK / Al Kitab, and authority, and prophethood. if these (their descendants) reject them, Behold! We shall entrust their charge to a new people who reject them not.
These Prophets were given The Book / Al Kitab, singular, ONE Book
Muhammed,as was given The Book / Al Kitab also....
To you (i.e. Muhammed) We sent The Book / Al Kitaba in truth, confirming WHAT IS BETWEEN YOUR TWO HANDS from Al Kitab
The Quran explains the details of The Book / Al Kitab....
And this Al-Quran / The Reading is not that can be produced from other than Allah, but it is a confirmation, that is between his two hands and the explanation / details of Al-kitab / The Book there is no doubt in it from the Lord of the worlds.
There are 33+ attributes of The Book / Al Kitab 'detailed' in the Quran in the following ayahs
2.185, 5.44, 3.3, 2.105, 11.96, 2.2, 53.4, 2.75, 6.104, 2.99, 85.21, 72.1, 5.15, 39.23, 12.3, 14.25, 3.138, 15.9, 7.145, 21.48, 2.99, 7.62, 3.44, 23.6, 98.2, 45.18, 9.49, 2.145, 10.35
'The Book' Al Kitab has NOTHING to do with Old Testament or New Testament Bible/Torah
Not all of them are alike. Of the People of the Book are a nation / ommatun that stand / in salat. They rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration.
Muslims in this ayah are being identified and confirmed as 'People of the Book'.
Jews and Christians are mentioned as 'reciting from The Book / Al Kitab'
And the Yahood/Jews say, ?That Nasara/Christians are not on anything.? And the Nasara/Christians say? that the Yahood/Jews are not on anything.? And both of them are reciting AL-KITAB/THE BOOK. Like unto their word is what those say who know not; but Allah will judge between them in their quarrel on the Day of Judgment.
Thus Muslims, Jews and Christians are reciting/referring from the guidance of Allah, but creating their own books
And when Allah took a covenant from the People of The Book, to make it known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it; but they threw it away behind their backs (teaching something else), and purchased with it some miserable gain! And vile was the bargain they made!
Say. "Have you seen (these) 'Partners' of yours whom you call upon besides Allah? Show Me what it is they have created in the (wide) earth. Or have they a share in the heavens? Or HAVE WE GIVEN THEM A BOOK FROM WHICH THEY (CAN DERIVE) CLEAR (EVIDENCE)?- NO / Bal, the wrong-doers promise each other nothing but delusions.
Again, I have identified who are ahli al kitab from the Quran NOT the definitive's of opinion, interpretation and political objectives
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I see that you did NOT read the thread...so here is what I posted in the thread http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596838.210
Salaam Alaikum
From a Quranic perspective People of the Book NOT 'Jews and Christians'
The People of The Book / Al Kitab are the 19 Prophets mentioned in Sura Al Anam 683 - 689
These were the men to whom We gave THE BOOK / Al Kitab, and authority, and prophethood. if these (their descendants) reject them, Behold! We shall entrust their charge to a new people who reject them not.
These Prophets were given The Book / Al Kitab, singular, ONE Book
Muhammed,as was given The Book / Al Kitab also....
To you (i.e. Muhammed) We sent The Book / Al Kitaba in truth, confirming WHAT IS BETWEEN YOUR TWO HANDS from Al Kitab
The Quran explains the details of The Book / Al Kitab....
And this Al-Quran / The Reading is not that can be produced from other than Allah, but it is a confirmation, that is between his two hands and the explanation / details of Al-kitab / The Book there is no doubt in it from the Lord of the worlds.
There are 33+ attributes of The Book / Al Kitab 'detailed' in the Quran in the following ayahs
2.185, 5.44, 3.3, 2.105, 11.96, 2.2, 53.4, 2.75, 6.104, 2.99, 85.21, 72.1, 5.15, 39.23, 12.3, 14.25, 3.138, 15.9, 7.145, 21.48, 2.99, 7.62, 3.44, 23.6, 98.2, 45.18, 9.49, 2.145, 10.35
'The Book' Al Kitab has NOTHING to do with Old Testament or New Testament Bible/Torah
Not all of them are alike. Of the People of the Book are a nation / ommatun that stand / in salat. They rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration.
Muslims in this ayah are being identified and confirmed as 'People of the Book'.
Jews and Christians are mentioned as 'reciting from The Book / Al Kitab'
And the Yahood/Jews say, ?That Nasara/Christians are not on anything.? And the Nasara/Christians say? that the Yahood/Jews are not on anything.? And both of them are reciting AL-KITAB/THE BOOK. Like unto their word is what those say who know not; but Allah will judge between them in their quarrel on the Day of Judgment.
Thus Muslims, Jews and Christians are reciting/referring from the guidance of Allah, but creating their own books
And when Allah took a covenant from the People of The Book, to make it known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it; but they threw it away behind their backs (teaching something else), and purchased with it some miserable gain! And vile was the bargain they made!
Say. "Have you seen (these) 'Partners' of yours whom you call upon besides Allah? Show Me what it is they have created in the (wide) earth. Or have they a share in the heavens? Or HAVE WE GIVEN THEM A BOOK FROM WHICH THEY (CAN DERIVE) CLEAR (EVIDENCE)?- NO / Bal, the wrong-doers promise each other nothing but delusions.
Again, I have identified who are ahli al kitab from the Quran NOT the definitive's of opinion, interpretation and political objectives
Salaams Br,
Yes i agree with you mostly, but are you saying people of the book are the 19 prophets and as well as the people following them?
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Assalaam Alaikum...@Simple
Yes Allah is indicating that those who follow the Messengers given Al Kitab are 'People of Al Ktab / The Book
Not all of them are alike. Of the People of the Book are a nation / ommatun that stand / in salat. They rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration.
Jews and Christians are NOT performing salat.
They are reciting and referring to Al Kitab / The Book, yet they are NOT adhering to Al Kitab / The Book
And the Yahood/Jews say, ?That Nasara/Christians are not on anything.? And the Nasara/Christians say? that the Yahood/Jews are not on anything.? And both of them are reciting AL-KITAB/THE BOOK. Like unto their word is what those say who know not; but Allah will judge between them in their quarrel on the Day of Judgment.
? Say. "O People of the Book! come to common WORD as between us and you. That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with him/ nushrika; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back, say you. "Bear witness that we are Muslims ."
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Assalaam Alaikum...@Simple
Yes Allah is indicating that those who follow the Messengers given Al Kitab are 'People of Al Ktab / The Book
Not all of them are alike. Of the People of the Book are a nation / ommatun that stand / in salat. They rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration.
Jews and Christians are NOT performing salat.
Salaams Br,
They are performing the salaat but the Muslims are the ones who are not doing it- but that is another topic altogether.
They are reciting and referring to Al Kitab / The Book, yet they are NOT adhering to Al Kitab / The Book
where is this Kitaab they are supposed to be reciting?
And the Yahood/Jews say, ?That Nasara/Christians are not on anything.? And the Nasara/Christians say? that the Yahood/Jews are not on anything.? And both of them are reciting AL-KITAB/THE BOOK. Like unto their word is what those say who know not; but Allah will judge between them in their quarrel on the Day of Judgment.
? Say. "O People of the Book! come to common WORD as between us and you. That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with him/ nushrika; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back, say you. "Bear witness that we are Muslims ."
Thanks.
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Salaam Simple
Translating "Al-kitab" as "the book" or "the scripture" is, in my opinion, wrong. Not all the messengers received the same "book" or scripture. But they surely received one common kitab, which is the Law. Dr Sha7rour has explained the difference between Al-Kitab and Al Qur'aan in his famous book with the same title. Chapters 1 through to chapter 114 contain both alkitaab and alquraan. I do like his differenciation and it makes much sense an solves many problems.
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Salaam Simple
Translating "Al-kitab" as "the book" or "the scripture" is, in my opinion, wrong. Not all the messengers received the same "book" or scripture. But they surely received one common kitab, which is the Law. Dr Sha7rour has explained the difference between Al-Kitab and Al Qur'aan in his famous book with the same title. Chapters 1 through to chapter 114 contain both alkitaab and alquraan. I do like his differenciation and it makes much sense an solves many problems.
Assalaam Alaikum
Actually, the reference to Al Kitab given to ALL Messengers is NOT about 'Books' of paper....
Allah makes it clear the distinction between Al Quran and Al Kitab.....
And this Al-Quran / The Reading is not that can be produced from other than Allah, but it is a confirmation, that is between his two hands and the explanation / details of Al-kitab / The Book there is no doubt in it from the Lord of the worlds.
The Quran is the explanation / tafseel of Al Kitab
According to Allah each Messenger received the same Al Kitab with its relevant attributes.....
We did send Messengers before you, and appointed for them spouses and children. and it was never the part of an Messenger to bring a sign except as Allah permitted. For each period / ajalin is a Book / kitabu (singular).
Walaqad arsalna rusulan min qablika wajaAAalna lahum azwajan wathurriyyatan wama kana lirasoolin an yatiya biayatin illa biithni Allahi likulli ajalin kitabun
Here again the following ayahs make it clear that the Quran / Reading is a 'kitab il mubeen', that clarifies Ummi / Source/Origin of Al Kitab
By the Book that makes things clear,- kitaab il Mubeen
We have made it a Qur'an in Arabic, that you may be able to understand (and learn wisdom).
Inna jaAAalnahu quranan AAarabiyyan laAAallakum taAAqiloona
And verily, it is in the Mother of the Book / ommi al kitabi , in Our Presence, high (in dignity), full of wisdom.
Wainnahu fee ommi alkitabi ladayna laAAaliyyun hakeemun
Al Kitab has NOTHING to do with 'different books of papers' given to different Messengers
Ummi; Root word Umm (noun) Mother, Source, PRINCIPLE, ORIGIN, PROTOTYPE
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And there are, certainly, among the People of the Book, those who believe in Allah, in the revelation to YOU, and in the revelation to THEM, bowing in humility to Allah. They will not sell the Signs of Allah for a miserable gain! For them is a reward with their Lord, and Allah is swift in account.
Wa inna min ahli alkitabi laman yuminu biAllahi wa ma onzila ilaykum wa ma onzila ilayhim khashiAAeena lillahi la yashtaroona biayati Allahi thamanan qaleelan olaika lahum ajruhum AAinda rabbihim inna Allaha sareeAAu alhisabi
Yet Allah states that they are concealing and passing over the guidance of Al Kitab....
O People of the Book! There has come to you our Messenger, revealing / clarifying to you what you are concealing / unperceived in The Book / Al Kitab, and passing over much (of the guidance) . There has come to you from Allah a light / Noorun and a Clear Book,-
Ya ahla alkitabi qad jaakum rasooluna yubayyinu lakum katheeran mimma kuntum tukhfoona mina alkitabi wayaAAfoo AAan katheerin qad jaakum mina Allahi noorun wakitabun mubeenun
Again, Al Kitab is NOT a book of papers.....
? And they do not evaluate ALLAH as HIS true evaluation. When they said? ALLAH has not revealed on any human being from anything? Say ? Who has revealed AL-KITAB/THE BOOK, that MOOSA/MOSES came with it?? A light and guidance for mankind YOU HAVE MADE IT QARATISA/PAPERS, you make them appear good/convincing and you conceal the truth (of Al Kitab), although you have been taught things that neither you nor your forefathers had ever known" Say ?Allah has revealed then leave them in their vain, idle tale without purpose.?
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Allah makes it clear the distinction between Al Quran and Al Kitab.....
And this Al-Quran / The Reading is not that can be produced from other than Allah, but it is a confirmation, that is between his two hands and the explanation / details of Al-kitab / The Book there is no doubt in it from the Lord of the worlds.
The Quran is the explanation / tafseel of Al Kitab
One thing I do not agree with you is the meaning of tafseel. fasala means to seperate (from it we have mifsal joint). So tafseel is separation, and that's what the verses of quraan do seperate between verses of alkitaab, because they are mixed with them.
We have made it a Qur'an in Arabic, that you may be able to understand (and learn wisdom).
"quraanan" here is indefinite and should be translated as "a reading". It's different from "the reading ".
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And there are, certainly, among the People of the Book, those who believe in Allah, in the revelation to YOU, and in the revelation to THEM, bowing in humility to Allah. They will not sell the Signs of Allah for a miserable gain! For them is a reward with their Lord, and Allah is swift in account.
Wa inna min ahli alkitabi laman yuminu biAllahi wa ma onzila ilaykum wa ma onzila ilayhim khashiAAeena lillahi la yashtaroona biayati Allahi thamanan qaleelan olaika lahum ajruhum AAinda rabbihim inna Allaha sareeAAu alhisabi
Yet Allah states that they are concealing and passing over the guidance of Al Kitab....
O People of the Book! There has come to you our Messenger, revealing / clarifying to you what you are concealing / unperceived in The Book / Al Kitab, and passing over much (of the guidance) . There has come to you from Allah a light / Noorun and a Clear Book,-
Ya ahla alkitabi qad jaakum rasooluna yubayyinu lakum katheeran mimma kuntum tukhfoona mina alkitabi wayaAAfoo AAan katheerin qad jaakum mina Allahi noorun wakitabun mubeenun
Again, Al Kitab is NOT a book of papers.....
? And they do not evaluate ALLAH as HIS true evaluation. When they said? ALLAH has not revealed on any human being from anything? Say ? Who has revealed AL-KITAB/THE BOOK, that MOOSA/MOSES came with it?? A light and guidance for mankind YOU HAVE MADE IT QARATISA/PAPERS, you make them appear good/convincing and you conceal the truth (of Al Kitab), although you have been taught things that neither you nor your forefathers had ever known" Say ?Allah has revealed then leave them in their vain, idle tale without purpose.?
with respects,
you arn't stating the where about of the kitaab.
Is it that it no longer exists, or it's in a paper book or it's in their hearts- where is it?
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Salaam Simple
Translating "Al-kitab" as "the book" or "the scripture" is, in my opinion, wrong. Not all the messengers received the same "book" or scripture. But they surely received one common kitab, which is the Law. Dr Sha7rour has explained the difference between Al-Kitab and Al Qur'aan in his famous book with the same title. Chapters 1 through to chapter 114 contain both alkitaab and alquraan. I do like his differenciation and it makes much sense an solves many problems.
Hi Samia,
I have read it in part, but not all.
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and?
Why didn't you read it all? When I started it (to check it out, as it was a present from a friend), I could not stop until I read it all.
I think that he was making it more complicated, rather then simplifying it- and remember the quran is supposed to be easy to understand , not at all complicated.
Like the Mullahs who make snakes from sticks when it doesn't ever happen in reality.
peace
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I believe the answer of what Al-kitaab is -
Alif-lam-meem
Thalika alkitabu larayba feehi hudan lilmuttaqeena
That is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;
Now look up lanes of what ilm means.
peace
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I think that he was making it more complicated, rather then simplifying it- and remember the quran is supposed to be easy to understand , not at all complicated.
Like the Mullahs who make snakes from sticks when it doesn't ever happen in reality.
peace
The book was not an explanation or interpretation of the quraan. And I think it's unfair to compare it to Mullahs work. What makes the mullahs work difficult is its lack of logic.
I believe the answer of what Al-kitaab is
Alif-lam-meem
Thalika alkitabu larayba feehi hudan lilmuttaqeenaThat is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;
Now look up lanes of what ilm means.What is this "hudan" then?. The quraan is said to be "hudan linnaas" people. Not all the people "fear God". Why is the distinction? These two "hudans" are not the same?
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The book was not an explanation or interpretation of the quraan. And I think it's unfair to compare it to Mullahs work. What makes the mullahs work difficult is its lack of logic.
What is this "hudan" then?. The quraan is said to be "hudan linnaas" people. Not all the people "fear God". Why is the distinction? These two "hudans" are not the same?
Hi Samia,
Isn?t the lesson of guidance written in books by people actually found in other places?
Let?s look at a chapter of the Afghans - their long standing sectarian hatred?s.
Is their any guidance in their for the pious?
Pakistan split from India, caused thousands of deaths, is their guidance in there for the pious?
Moses went to help a fellow of his own people fighting another and kills him and then goes on the run for many years afraid his past catching up with him, is there a lesson for the pious?
In all these type of events there is always a lesson/ guidance for the pious where by we may make laws for the benefit of society.
In any bad situation one may learn to better others.
Each of you can write about your own kitaab what you have learnt from your everyday life and aught not to do or ought to do. Your life can be enlightenment for others may be not to the same extent as the prophets who went through horrendous difficulties but difficulties still no doubt.
Whether you choose not to write about it no doubt you must have learnt from difficulties in your life due to lack of knowledge or because of mistakes.
All these laws in other countries came as and when things wern't right and where errected by those who were pious no doubt.
peace
God Bless.
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Assalaam Alaikum @Samia
Ok, we seem to be getting off point......
Irrespective of whether you accept the meaning of 'tafseel' as explanation, detailed confirmation or to somehow mean 'separation' is rather moot.
Personally, I would suggest that the word 'tafseel' is a verbal noun, which denotes an ideal, a concept and a verbal action. (its also a verb form II which suggests emphasis, force, repetition and causative; something is influencing the behavior of the verb)
As Allah states
? Those who reject Faith say. "Why is not the Qur'an revealed to him all at once? Thus (is it revealed), that We may strengthen thy heart thereby, and We have rehearsed it to you in slow, well-arranged stages, gradually.
Waqala allatheena kafaroo lawla nuzzila AAalayhi alquranu jumlatan wahidatan kathalika linuthabbita bihi fuadaka wa rattalnahu tarteelan
? And no example/question do so they bring to you but We bring to you the truth and the best TAFSEER / EXPLANATION.
Wala yatoonaka bimathalin illa jinaka bialhaqqi waahsana tafseeran
Thus Allah is confirming Sura Yunus 1037 and making it clear that the Quran is the detailed explanation of Al Kitab.
Sura Al-Furqan 25.32 is quite interesting also, Allah is using the terms "rattalnahu tarteelan"
rattalnahu (1st Person, perfect verb Verb Form II) in this ayah means 'WE arrange in an excellent form or order, free of all contradiction.; Dictionary of the Holy Quran (ratila/ratala) page 200
tarteelan (Verbal Noun, Verb Form II) meaning Distinct; another verbal noun, which denotes an ideal, a concept and a verbal action. The form of the verb (II) suggests emphasis, force, repetition and causative; Allah is influencing the behavior of the verb.
Thus Allah is governing the arrangement and influencing the 'best / ahsana'' tafseer / explanation of the guidance, as defined in Sura Al-Furqan 25.33, in this instance the tafseer / explanation of Al Kitab.
Allah is 'teaching' us how to recite and convey the guidance....
By degrees shall We teach you to declare (the Message), so you shalt not forget,
Sanuqrioka fa la tansa
Sanuqrioka (imperfect = action in progress, present tense, 2nd person, plural, verb form IV) meaning to enable one to recite, enable YOU to recite
Tansa (imperfect verb= action in progress, present tense, weak verb, 2nd person, masculine, singular) YOU forget;Root word Nasiya meaning to forget, forsake, neglect
Allah defines our responsibility and 'How' to perform the action of conveying the knowledge of the Quran in Sura Al-Muzammil 73.
Meaning
Muzzammil (Active Participle, masculine, singular, Verb Form = VIII reflexive, declarant) carry knowledge or responsibility, recite ayats, one who is behind another (in knowledge and guidance); Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 235 (zamala); Lanes Lexicon Part/Volume #3 page 1252-1253
Or a little more; and recite the Qur'an in slow, measured rhythmic tones.
Aw zid AAalayhi wa rattili alqurana tarteelan
Rattili (Imperative Command, 2nd person, Singular) Allah is COMMANDING/Enforcing us to recite disinctfully and thoughtfully, slow and gracefully
Again Allah is using the verbal noun (verb form II) "Tarteelan" to influence the 'ideal' structure of formatting the conveyance of the knowledge
Soon shall We send down to you a weighty Message.
Inna sanulqee AAalayka qawlan thaqeelan
qawlan (tanwin-fatha, plural, feminine) meaning to speak, to say, tell, utter a voice, to state, propound, assert, transmit, answer, think, events without being an actual speech or dialogue
Hans Wehr Arabic English Dictionary 4th Ed. Page 932-933 (qala)thaqeelan means heavy, serious, something that requires acceptance / submission
Ya ayyuha almuzzammilu
Muzzammil (Active Participle, masculine, singular, Verb Form = VIII reflexive, declarant) carry knowledge or responsibility, recite ayats, one who is behind another (in knowledge and guidance), Man wrapped in garments, one who unites
Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 235 (zamala); Lanes Lexicon Part/Volume #3 page 1252-1253
See 72.9 & 72.19
Stand (to Prayer) by night, but not all night,-
Half of it,- or a little less,
Or a little more; and recite the Qur'an in slow, measured rhythmic tones.Aw zid AAalayhi wa rattili alqurana tarteelan
Rattili recite disinctfully and thoughtfully, slow and gracefully
Tarteel denotes putting something together distinctly in a well arranged mannerSoon shall We send down to you a weighty Message.
Inna sanulqee AAalayka qawlan thaqeelan
qawlan (tanwin-fatha, plural, feminine) meaning to speak, to say, tell, utter a voice, to state, propound, assert, transmit, answer, think, events without being an actual speech or dialogue
Hans Wehr Arabic English Dictionary 4th Ed. Page 932-933 (qala) -
I have posted several ayahs indicating to you where the source of the 'kitab' your looking for......
No, here are Signs SELF-EVIDENT IN THE HEARTS OF THOSE ENDOWED WITH KNOWLEDGE. and none but the unjust reject Our Signs.
You they say. "Why are not Signs sent down to him from his Lord?" Say. "THE SIGNS ARE INDEED WITH ALLAH. and I am indeed a clear Warner."
We have made it a Qur'an in Arabic, that you may be able to understand (and learn wisdom).
And verily, it is in the Mother of the Book, in Our Presence, high (in dignity), full of wisdom.
You wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who resist Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred. For such He has written Faith in their hearts / olaika kataba fee quloobihimu al-eemana
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Personally, I would suggest that the word 'tafseel' is a verbal noun, which denotes an ideal, a concept and a verbal action. (its also a verb form II which suggests emphasis, force, repetition and causative; something is influencing the behavior of the verb)
Salaam Muslim TR
Thank you for sparing me the trouble of morphology explanation.
I agree with you in that; however, the change of verb form does not change the original meaning. So, tafseel, which is the verbal noun of form II of the verb "fasala, i.e fassala" means repetition in seperation, which is the case. The verses of the quraan do not seperate the verses of alkitaab in one place, but in many places (repetition of fasl). I do not know of a meaning of (to explain) unless it is a suggested purpose of the (tafseel), hence, a secondary, deduced meaning. e.g one may ask why are the quraanic verses seperating the kitabic verses? Then "to explain" would be a suggested response.
As for the rest of your post, I do not know what you want to tell me. None of these verses contain the verb "fassala" or any of its derivatives. So, if they have the meaning of "to explain" contained in them, this would be in support of my arguement that the "explanation" is expressed in different terms and never by the "tafseel".