Number of wives?
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Thank you Anna for posting that albeit the fact that it did come out rather harshly. I will ignore that, considering they were not of your own words. I am not an Arabic speaker as you may have already determined yourself. Although I am trying to learn and study the Quran just like everyone else is. So do try to exercise patience and understanding towards one another. You should feel blessed for being able to understand the Arabic language.
As I mentioned before, I put the word orphans in quotation marks for lack of understanding of the definition "yatama alnnisai." Now that you have clarified the meaning of "yatama alnnisai," it is obvious that men are limited to marrying mother's of orphans. Do you see this happening in the muslim society today? Let me see a show of hands of men who are willing to marry widowed women with children from war torn countries in Africa, Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine. I personally don't think widowed women in developed countries fall under the same category considering government assistance (welfare) is easy to come by these days.
salam
again, I put that post up as to clarify the meaning of "yatama lnasa2" and i personally agree with that translation, and im sorry i know it seemed harsh but dont forget i got it from another forum and the person he was speaking to was pretty harsh himself in any case, i agree with you that men are not taking the responsibilty for materialistic reasons,and that why i say they have to get to closer to god to understand the reasons behind the idea of multiple marriages. -
Assalaam Alaikum @anna
Excellent clarification. Your 'conviction' was evident from your text and sincerity. Being 'firm' and 'cogent' is NOT 'harsh'.
The truth is very hard at times to accept.
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Anna, please don't use the phrase "men" here. I am a man, and I recent when women say "men this men that".
What you really should be using, is the phrase infidel.I didn't read the whole thread. Did you cover this?
Multiple marriages, are usually reserved the wealthy. A big property and household needs to be looked after. And it logically follows, that having several wifes, would be fitting.
Waw, I thought it was 2008.
(checks time machine)
Yep - you're in the wrong century, not me. peace
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Asalaam Alaikum @Fahad
Lets clarify the topic and focus....
Wain khiftum alla tuqsitoo fee alyatama fa Conjunctive particle VERBAL SENTENCE >>> inkihoo ADVERBAL MODIFIERS >>> MA TABA lakum minna <<< GENITIVE >>> alnnisai ADJECTIVES >>> mathna wathulatha warubaAAa <<< fain khiftum alla taAAdiloo fa Another Conjunctive particle ADJECTIVE Subject (Al Nisa) >>>> wahidatan <<< aw ma malakat aymanukum thalika adna alla taAAooloo
*Conjunctive particle begins a sentence; successive order
Wa-ith taqoolu lillathee anAAama Allahu AAalayhi waanAAamta AAalayhi amsik AAalayka zawjaka waittaqi Allaha watukhfee fee nafsika ma Allahu mubdeehi watakhsha alnnasa waAllahu ahaqqu an takhshahu fa lamma qada zaydun minha wataran zawwaj nakaha li-kaa (for YOU) la yakoona AAala almu/mineena harajun fee itha qadaw have ended minhunna wataran wakana amru Allahi mafAAoolan
Assalaam Alaikum @Fahad,
A person named 'Zaid' is not mentioned in this ayah. I believe that has been shown the word is a verb 'zaydun' is not a noun.
Secondly, there is no reference to 'adopted son(s)' 'ad-AAi-ya-i-him' / Verb Form IV, does not mean 'adopted son' its also a verb which has various meanings 'take legal action against, institute legal proceedings against, pretense, allegation, litigation, prosecution, suit, lawsuit, arrogance, self-importance, vanity, etc.'
In the context of this portion of Sura Al Ahzab 3337....
'la yakoona AAala almu/mineena harajun / oppressed, disquieted in (heart& mind) fee Genitive itha / when qadaw / have ended or dissolved minhunna / from them (females) wataran '
Seems Allah is reassuring the Believer, that they should not be depressed and sorrowful regarding any qadaw / decree or judgment relating to there respective mates.
This is my cursory perception, you or anyone else may have something different.
Lets share and learn.
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In 33/4, to translate 'ad'iyaakum' as 'instituting legal proceeedings' would not make sense at all. It would read 'Allah did not make take legal proceedings your sons'.
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'sons' is NOT in the ayah, thats your interpretation. Besides we are discussing 33.37 NOT 33.4
'azwaji adAAiya-ihim' / is in the Genitive Thus the translation would relate to 'legal proceedings with your mates' 'or 'allegations,claim' or some type of mediation between azwaj / mates that requires a qadaw / judgement, resolution or decree (i.e. divorce)
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MTR'sons' is NOT in the ayah, thats your interpretation
Oh ? How would you translate 'abnaakum' then ? 'your buildings' ??
MTR Besides we are discussing 33.37 NOT 33.4
Oh sorry, I thought the Quran explains itself by repeating verses. I guess not....hadith, anyone?
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For the sake of duplication and brevity, please refer to page #2 from this thread http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597268.15
Couple posts in..Yatama is defined with references and Yateem
yatama sole, unmatched, single, lonely, jaded, one without parents; Root word atamm means more complete, more perfect, perfectly prepared, totally ready; Root word Tamm meaning consummate, of full value, self contained, needing no completion; Root word Tamma means to or become complete, completed, finished, done, to be performed, be accomplished, to come to an end;
Hans Wehr Arabic English Dictionary 4th Ed. page 117-118 (tamma)"one without parents" - would technically become "orphan" + plural = "orphans", no?
Yatama is recognized as plural of yateem according to Lane's Lexicon, Volume 8, page 317.
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yatama sole, unmatched, single, lonely, jaded, one without parents; Root word atamm means more complete, more perfect, perfectly prepared, totally ready; Root word Tamm meaning consummate, of full value, self contained, needing no completion; Root word Tamma means to or become complete, completed, finished, done, to be performed, be accomplished, to come to an end;
Hans Wehr Arabic English Dictionary 4th Ed. page 117-118 (tamma)"one without parents" - would technically become "orphan" + plural = "orphans", no?
Yatama is recognized as plural of yateem according to Lane's Lexicon, Volume 8, page 317.
Assalaam Alaikum @Far
Its 'Al Yatama' /
with...
?Al? (adataatarif) is a Definite Article , used to give the meaning of ?Most, All, Complete, Maximum, Whole, and to denote comprehensiveness, all aspects or categories of a subject, or to denote perfection and includes all degrees and grades. INCLUSIVE and NON Exclusive, ALL Meanings of the root.
Besides, we dont marry orphans, as stated in a previous post, that would imply pedophilia is supported by the Quran.
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salam muslimtruthrevealed. i am shocked to see the repeated nonsensical posts that you have made.
you claim
Besides, we dont marry orphans, as stated in a previous post, that would imply pedophilia is supported by the Quran
this comment by you angers any decent muslim, including myself. how dare you put your garbage of pedophilia near the quran. this putting pedophilia near islam is a very common practice of pagans, which implies you are a pagan.
the term orphan has nothing to do with the age of a person. there are adult orphan women who wish to be married, you must be beyond ignorant not to know this. the term alyatama is a category of persons. yateem are those individuals who are in the category of alyatama. the issue is categories of persons, not singular or plural. you debate like a jahil.
allah is the truth.
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Assalaam Alaikum @Far
Its 'Al Yatama' /
with...
Al (adataatarif) is a Definite Article , used to give the meaning of Most, All, Complete, Maximum, Whole, and to denote comprehensiveness, all aspects or categories of a subject, or to denote perfection and includes all degrees and grades. INCLUSIVE and NON Exclusive, ALL Meanings of the root.
Besides, we dont marry orphans, as stated in a previous post, that would imply pedophilia is supported by the Quran.
Quran 46
Marrying women up to 4, would specifically apply to the extra stock of women in a community, no? Especially those who do not have male support, specifically those women who do not have fathers, no?
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Quran 46
Marrying women up to 4, would specifically apply to the extra stock of women in a community, no? Especially those who do not have male support, specifically those women who do not have fathers, no?
Assalaam Alaikum @Far
The Quran is NOT suggesting Men can marry up to 4 wives. All the 'analogies' in the world will not change the meaning and context of Sura 43.
Women are NOT 'orphans' nor are they referred to or expected to be 'extra stock'.
yatama sole, unmatched, single, lonely, jaded, one without parents; Root word atamm means more complete, more perfect, perfectly prepared, totally ready; Root word Tamm meaning consummate, of full value, self contained, needing no completion; Root word Tamma means to or become complete, completed, finished, done, to be performed, be accomplished, to come to an end;
Hans Wehr Arabic English Dictionary 4th Ed. page 117-118 (tamma)The context of the ayah is 'Marriage' to Women......who are independent, prepared and ready for marriage
Wain khiftum alla tuqsitoo fee alyatama fa VERBAL SENTENCE >>> inkihoo ADVERBAL MODIFIERS >>> MA TABA lakum minna <<< GENITIVE >>> alnnisai ADJECTIVES >>> mathna wathulatha warubaAAa <<< fain khiftum alla taAAdiloo fa ADJECTIVE Subject (Al Nisa) >>>> wahidatan <<< aw ma malakat aymanukum thalika adna alla taAAooloo
Secondly the ayah is indicating to Men....NOT to violate the blessing of marriage by marrying 2,3 & 4 Times NOT wives
It is Ma = NOT Taba = good/lawful Lakum =TO/For YOU to be given the Minna = favor/gift/blessing/benefit of Al Nisai = (get married to) Women Mathna = 2, Thulatha = 3, and Rubaa = 4 TIMES
Then the ayah continues......
Fain = Therefore Khiftum = If you fear Alla = that you will fall short of your duty and obligation in marriage taAAdiloo = to act justly Fa = conjunctive particle ADJECTIVE of Subject (An-Nisa) wahidatan = Then Marry ONE TIME indefinitely (NOT 2, 3 and 4 TIMES)
Lastly....
Aw (denotes time & transition) = wait UNTIL Malakat = you can take a wife Aymanukum = You are faithful, You feel trustworthy & You are secure
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Salam-un-Alaikum 2 Muslimtruthrevealed
2234 Those among you who die and leave "wives" behind.............. "Clear plural used here" Azwajan
1338 And verily We sent Messengers before you, and We appointed for them "wives" and children as well.There are other places where word "Wives" is mentioned but mostly are concerning with Prophet himself or other prophets, like Lot's story, etc.
please clarify if you wish so, it would seem hypocritical to allow messenger this privilege and not the believers.
ThanX
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Salam-un-Alaikum 2 Muslimtruthrevealed
2234 Those among you who die and leave "wives" behind.............. "Clear plural used here" Azwajan
1338 And verily We sent Messengers before you, and We appointed for them "wives" and children as well.There are other places where word "Wives" is mentioned but mostly are concerning with Prophet himself or other prophets, like Lot's story, etc.
please clarify if you wish so, it would seem hypocritical to allow messenger this privilege and not the believers.
ThanX
Assalaam Alaikum
Azwajan is a plural, imperfect, indefinite verb with tanween. It means Mates NOT 'wives'
2234....wa allatheena yutawaffawna minkum wayatharoona azwajan /
allatheena / people as a community
We did send Messengers before you, and appointed for them spouses and children / jaAAalna lahum azwajan wa thurriyyatan. and it was never the part of an Messenger to bring a sign except as Allah permitted (or commanded). For each period is a Book (revealed).
Sura Nisa 4.3 is clear, the Quran is clear, no need to attempt to rationalize the ayah with english translations and misinterpretations.
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salam nadirshah. you are 100% correct. there are many mathala of messengers of allah who had multiple wives.
most notably abraham who is called by allah the upright one had multiple wives. allah would not call a polygynist an upright person if polygyny was prohibited.
please ignore the ignorant ranting of muslimtruthrevealed.
allah is the truth
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Salaam-un-Alikum to Muslimtruthrevealed
Agree with you Al-Quran is Clear, it is so clear that in 2234 it means "Mates" and in 1338 spouses, and the word Azwajan is exactly same Hm
Just kidding, you see my Muslim brother, i may not be able to understand Hashimee Arabic, but i can relate to it via Urdu. since i learned that ALLAH, is not one word, but two words. I am still stuck on.
"La E LaHa Ela Al LAH" and and On "Be Ismi Al Lahi Al Rehmane Al Raheeme".
Dont like arguing. already very sad with the plight of opposite sex, no creature has treated his Zoj the way Hue-mans have. Need to learn a bit about linguistic and Neurons programming we C, this Arabic seems to be a good language to write like C++ or Assembly. first need to extract some parameters.
I also don't approach Al-Quran with already trying to find for what to look for, "It just happens"
You might still be right since in 2234 is Al-Lazeena and in 1338 talk is about prophets, Its just my own marriage life is on the verge of breaking up, and second wife which is acceptable to the first one can save existing house hold, kids, family, funny though. Now only option seems available is divorce. Which in these times gonaa cost a fortune
You see my Muslim brother these issues on whom you are giving Fatwaa left right and center are not so simple look around in the sick society. Bastards burnt down one hundred schools of poor girls in Pakistan, buried alive four women folks.
Please don't meant to offend nobody, the way Al-Quran is proportioned no rationalization is needed.
It is no measure of health, to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. "Addendum".
Fi-Amaan-Al-Laah.
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Assalaam Alaikum @NadirShah
Brotha you kinda lost me with the Software Development analogies.....
Brotha, again 2.234 and 13.38 are NOT sanctions that support polygyny / polygamy.
azwajan again is an imperfect, indefinite verb thus its NOT referring to any particular gender and it can be used as a verbal noun. It means what it means; mates', 'spouses', 'couple' NOT 'wives'.
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salam nadir shah. do not be misled by muslimthreadrevealed's false posts.
from 2221 onwards to 2237 is addressed to men and not addressed to women the context is clear to any sane reader.
from 2240 through 2241 again it is addressed to men and not addressed to women the context is clear here as well.2234 speaks to men who die and leave widows behind. if we use mtr's claim that azwajakum is not gender specific, the result is nonsense. if it is not gender specific then mtr would propose "the wife would die and leave widows behind" nonsense.
1338 clearly says allah appointed wives and children for the messengers, and the signs that the messengers brought are what is permitted by allah. therefore wives, plural, and children, plural, are signs to mankind of what allah has permitted to mankind. mtr would claim these are not allah's signs, and not permission of allah, because mtr rejects the verses of the quran.
allah is the truth.