Number of wives?
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Yes - you're wrong, because the number of men and women in the world between the ages of 15-50 are roughly even. The excess of women is only above the age of 70 (above the male life expectancy.
I am not sure I understand why you think I am wrong. I asked
Am I wrong that the big number of women left unmarried in a monogamous world will be more frustrated because they will have no sexual satisfaction at all, except through unlawful means?
You say yes I am wrong that the women left unmarried will be more frustrated because they will have no sexual satisfaction at all, except through unlawful means.
I asked
Am I wrong that every women has a right to have a husband and children?
You say yes I am wrong that every women has a right to have a husband and children.
Does your answer make any sense to yourself? Did you read my questions before answering? If not, have you read them now? If so, could you please answer them again? Thanks.
The number of men and women in the world has nothing to do with my questions nor with the issue of polygyny.
So this idea of an excess of women who need polygamy to find a husband is complete fantasy. In fact, in many countries like China and Saudi Arabia, there is a big excess of men. So your arguement needs to be reversed.
Can you please point out where I used the argument of the excess of women. Thanks.
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Afridi, again, you are avoiding my questions.
??? I believe you are living on mars or some other planet, so you don?t know these girls are not married forcefully or against their well hypno
I already told you that I am not talking about the girls/women who are forced. I am talking about those who give their consent. I quote
a few months back a 90 years old Saudi millioner paid a poor Egyptian family to marry their 16 years young daughter but the court took action against him and stopped that marriage.
I was talking about marriage, not about rape.
What now?
i don?t have much time to discuss this matter in detail but i will give you a small advice please do some research go and ask those girls are women '(
You don't have time? Does it means you won't be replying in this thread anymore?
Or will you reply to others in the thread but not answer my questions?
You do not need to discuss in great detail as my questions are simple and straightforward.
Sorry for your ignorance elektro
Be sorry for being dishonest to yourself. If you could think up of any answers, you wouldn't be having a time problem. You only had to type your thoughts/answers. You have time to discuss, you just don't have the answers.
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Maria,
If all women really were free to choose which husband she wanted to get married to this wouldn't been an issue for argues.
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Yes, women should be free to choose. I wasn't arguing forced marriage or rape. They are one and the same.
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Women have more men to choose from in a polygynous society where married men, who would otherwise be off-limits, are also available. Don't you think?
I mean which sweet 16 girl would ever marry an 70 year old Hugh Hefner look alike, who only would think of sex?
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Why does the girl always have to be a sweet 16 year old girl and the man a sex crazed 70 year old? What about the numbers in between? What if the age difference is not so big?
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What does this 16 year old girl and 70 year old man argument prove anything about/against polygyny? The 70 year old could be a monogynous man as well. So this argument is really not relevant.
The answer is NO.
But you just said she should be free to choose. So why are you choosing the answer for her?
Therefore i don't believe in marriage without love connected to it, so called arranged marriage is doomed to fail after a time.
If you are confusing arranged marriage with "forced marriage", they are not the same.
Off-topic, but IMHO a marriage has a better chance of succeeding if it starts at minimum love from where it can grow than at maximum.
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Maria,
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Yes, women should be free to choose. I wasn't arguing forced marriage or rape. They are one and the same.
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Women have more men to choose from in a polygynous society where married men, who would otherwise be off-limits, are also available. Don't you think?
No, because if she has to share a man, she's only getting half a man, and the existing wife loses half a man. Neither of them have a real husband.
At the same time, somewhere a man with no wife is deprived of his one true love angel
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No, because if she has to share a man, she's only getting half a man, and the existing wife loses half a man. Neither of them have a real husband.
At the same time, somewhere a man with no wife is deprived of his one true love angel
Let me know of a woman that wants man 24/7.
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Maria,
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Yes, women should be free to choose. I wasn't arguing forced marriage or rape. They are one and the same.
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Women have more men to choose from in a polygynous society where married men, who would otherwise be off-limits, are also available. Don't you think?
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Why does the girl always have to be a sweet 16 year old girl and the man a sex crazed 70 year old? What about the numbers in between? What if the age difference is not so big?
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What does this 16 year old girl and 70 year old man argument prove anything about/against polygyny? The 70 year old could be a monogynous man as well. So this argument is really not relevant.
But you just said she should be free to choose. So why are you choosing the answer for her?
If you are confusing arranged marriage with "forced marriage", they are not the same.
Off-topic, but IMHO a marriage has a better chance of succeeding if it starts at minimum love from where it can grow than at maximum.
Peace,
Ok, I agree that I have been off topic, sorry for that.
My earlier post showed only my opinion about women and their right to choose whom to married.
And sharing a man with other women, no thanks, not sexually.
I think more deseases would be spread if have many sexpartners at same time, because married couples don't use condomes.I am against polygyny and I cannot see that Quran advice for this custom.
Maria
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Let me know of a woman that wants man 24/7.
Of course they do. This doesn't mean they don't want any alone time. But they want their husband to be contributing to the family unit 24/7. Either earning money for her and her children, or looking after the children when she is working. Never does the wife benefit from the husband banging other women, having to split his energy and money with anther woman, reducing the inheritance of her children.
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Of course they do. This doesn't mean they don't want any alone time. But they want their husband to be contributing to the family unit 24/7. Either earning money for her and her children, or looking after the children when she is working. Never does the wife benefit from the husband banging other women, having to split his energy and money with anther woman, reducing the inheritance of her children.
Peace,
Very well said )
Maria
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Quote from Fahad
No one is forcing those women to get married. If they do not think it is worth it, they wouldn't have gotten married in the first place. Plus, the big number of women left unmarried in a monogamous world, will be more frustrated because they will have no sexual satisfaction at all, except through unlawful means.Yeah, greedy men taking care of multiple women, providing them with family and children! Those women would have been better off prostituting themselves, right? Isn't that what you want?
Again i will ask you to do some research leave your living room and check for yourself those men who have multiple wives whether he is treating all his wives equally or he just care for the last one and others are left on their own and frustrated.
And have you checked whether they have married that man willfully or they are forced to marry him.
You said no one is forcing those women to get married .
Yes and if they marry someone on their free well then they are condemn to death,
Just see here if you have a human heart two days back what happened just right under your nose
http//www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008\11\07\story_7-11-2008_pg7_15http//www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-16112467.html
I know you will say this has nothing to do with your question because you are brought up in a society who considers women as sex object they are tortured and killed if they ask for their rights.
Am I wrong that the big number of women left unmarried in a monogamous world will be more frustrated because they will have no sexual satisfaction at all, except through unlawful means?
Am I wrong that every woman has a right to have a husband and children?
Tell me.
Oh so would you please tell us that those women who are left unmarried in your kingdom due to shortage of men or the curse of dowry which you brought with you when you converted from Hinduism.
And by the way you are paying the dowry or ajar or the girl if she is poor she has to remain unmarried forever and pushed to prostitution.Please remove the dust of men superiority complex from your eyes and treat them like humans.
peace -
Quote from Fahad
No one is forcing those women to get married. If they do not think it is worth it, they wouldn't have gotten married in the first place. Plus, the big number of women left unmarried in a monogamous world, will be more frustrated because they will have no sexual satisfaction at all, except through unlawful means.Yeah, greedy men taking care of multiple women, providing them with family and children! Those women would have been better off prostituting themselves, right? Isn't that what you want?
Again i will ask you to do some research leave your living room and check for yourself those men who have multiple wives whether he is treating all his wives equally or he just care for the last one and others are left on their own and frustrated.
And have you checked whether they have married that man willfully or they are forced to marry him.
You said no one is forcing those women to get married .
Yes and if they marry someone on their free well then they are condemn to death,
Just see here if you have a human heart two days back what happened just right under your nose
http//www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008\11\07\story_7-11-2008_pg7_15http//www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-16112467.html
I know you will say this has nothing to do with your question because you are brought up in a society who considers women as sex object they are tortured and killed if they ask for their rights.
Am I wrong that the big number of women left unmarried in a monogamous world will be more frustrated because they will have no sexual satisfaction at all, except through unlawful means?
Am I wrong that every woman has a right to have a husband and children?
Tell me.
Oh so would you please tell us that those women who are left unmarried in your kingdom due to shortage of men or the curse of dowry which you brought with you when you converted from Hinduism.
And by the way you are paying the dowry or ajar or the girl if she is poor she has to remain unmarried forever and pushed to prostitution.Please remove the dust of men superiority complex from your eyes and treat them like humans.
peacePeace br Afridi,
Thanks for taking example from reality.
Many here seems living in their dreams of what marriage should be rather to face the facts that the world around us showing us.It's hard enough to be in a normal monogamy marriage how would it then be when more people and their wills are involved nope.
Maria
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Peace br Afridi,
Thanks for taking example from reality.
Many here seems living in their dreams of what marriage should be rather to face the facts that the world around us showing us.It's hard enough to be in a normal monogamy marriage how would it then be when more people and their wills are involved nope.
Maria
Peace Maria
Really I have very limited time cannot go in deep discussion, but I?m well aware what is happening around me. '(
peace
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Peace Maria
Really I have very limited time cannot go in deep discussion, but I?m well aware what is happening around me. '(
peace
Peace,
Yes, sure you know peace
Especially where you are brought up, Pakistan right!?Maria
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Of course they do. This doesn't mean they don't want any alone time. But they want their husband to be contributing to the family unit 24/7. Either earning money for her and her children, or looking after the children when she is working. Never does the wife benefit from the husband banging other women, having to split his energy and money with anther woman, reducing the inheritance of her children.
Such women would be avoided by most men.
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Such women would be avoided by most men.
I bet you are not married!!?
Maria
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Are you married?
I have been divorced 3 years ago. But was married nearly 16 years to one and same man. So I know what a marriage is.
Maria
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Such women would be avoided by most men.
I guess you think a husband, who thinks his only role in family life is that of a sperm donor and vibrator, is really attractive to women? nope
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I guess you think a husband, who thinks his only role in family life is that of a sperm donor and vibrator, is really attractive to women? nope
ELDORADO, Texas ? The scared girl, already a mother at 16, whispered into a cell phone she wanted out. She'd been forced to marry a man more than three times her age, becoming his seventh wife.
Her husband sexually assaulted her, and when he was angry, he would beat her while other women held her infant, she told a family violence shelter in a series of secret calls that triggered an investigation of the polygamist sect here.
The girl had looked for opportunities to escape before, but she was warned that outside the double-gates blocking entry to the Yearning For Zion Ranch, in a world completely foreign to her, she would be forced to cut her hair and wear makeup, and to have sex with many men ? all damning transgressions in a faith where modesty calls for women to wear long underwear year-round under pioneer-style dresses
But child welfare officials allege in court documents released Tuesday that the compound built by leaders of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints was rife with sexual abuse, with girls spiritually married to much older men as soon as they reached puberty and boys groomed to perpetuate the cycle.The documents detail the hushed phone calls, but days after raiding the West Texas compound, officials still aren't sure where the girl is. She is not named among the children in initial custody petitions by the state.
Texas authorities have legal custody of 416 children, all of those believed to have lived at the ranch, Child Protective Services spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner told reporters in San Angelo, about 40 miles from the compound in Eldorado.
Court documents said a number of teen girls at the 1,700-acre compound were pregnant, and all the children were removed on the grounds that they were in danger of "emotional, physical, and-or sexual abuse." Nearly 140 women left on their own.
"Investigators determined that there is a widespread pattern and practice of the (YFZ) Ranch in which young, minor female residents are conditioned to expect and accept sexual activity with adult men at the ranch upon being spiritually married to them," read the affidavit signed by Lynn McFadden, a Department of Family and Protective Services investigative supervisor.
McFadden said the girls were spiritually married to the men as soon as they reached puberty and were required to bear children. A spiritual marriage is one recognized by the FLDS church, but lacking a state marriage license. Texas law prohibits polygamy and the marriage of girls under 16.
Attorneys for the church and church leaders have filed motions asking a judge to quash the search on constitutional grounds, saying state authorities didn't have enough evidence and that the warrants were too broad. A hearing on their motion was scheduled for Wednesday in San Angelo.
Church lawyer Patrick Peranteau did not immediately return a phone message seeking comment Tuesday.
An unknown number of men and women were at the ranch while authorities completed the search of the gleaming 80-foot-high temple, a cheese-making plant, a cement plant, a school, a doctor's office and housing units. Tela Mange, a spokeswoman for the Department of Public Safety, said Tuesday the adults were not being held, but if they left the compound, they could not return while the search continued.
At least two FBI agents were seen entering the back entrance of the temple on Tuesday.
Spokesmen for the FBI and DPS declined comment.
The compound was raided Thursday after the girl called a local family violence shelter March 29 and 30, using someone else's cell phone and speaking quietly to avoid being overheard, McFadden's affidavit said.
The girl said she was not allowed to leave the compound unless she was ill. She told the shelter that her husband would "beat and hurt" her when he got angry, hitting her in the chest and choking her while another woman in the house held her baby. Once, he broke her ribs, she said.
The girl also said her husband sexually assaulted her, and that she was several weeks pregnant. The girl told the shelter her husband went to "the outsiders' world" but she didn't know where.
The girl's husband was not identified in the court documents released Tuesday. But authorities have issued an arrest warrant for church member Dale Barlow, a 50-year-old believed to be in Arizona.
Authorities were looking for documents, family photos or even a family Bible with lists of marriages and children to determine whether the girl was married to Barlow, who was sentenced to jail last year after pleading no contest to conspiracy to commit sexual conduct with a minor. He was ordered to register as a sex offender for three years while he is on probation.
Authorities were trying to determine the identities and parentage of many of the children; some were unwilling or unable to provide the names of their biological parents or identified multiple mothers.
The boys were groomed to be ready to marry underage girls upon adulthood and engage in sexual activity, resulting in them becoming new "perpetrators," the affidavit said.
Children in the sect were deprived of food and forced to sit in closed closets as a form of discipline, a warrant said.
An FLDS member now living in the Texas Panhandle, Samuel Fischer, objected to the raid.
"It's religious persecution," said Fischer, who moved to a ranch near Lockney with his two wives and 12 of his children from Hildale, Utah, last year.
The Texas investigation is the state's first of FLDS members, but prosecutors in Utah and Arizona have pursued several church members in recent years, including sect leader Warren Jeffs, who is serving two consecutive sentences of five years to life for being an accomplice to the rape of a 14-year-old wed to her cousin in Utah. He awaits trial on other charges in Arizona.
Authorities investigating the Eldorado compound have described FLDS members as cooperative, but the house-by-house search of the temple, factories and living quarters has led to some trouble.
On Monday, 41-year-old Leroy Johnson Steed was arrested on charges of felony tampering with evidence ? a day after 19-year-old Levi Barlow Jeffs was arrested on misdemeanor charges of interfering with the duties of a public servant, said DPS spokesman Tom Vinger.
He declined to give details on the arrests or how Levi Barlow Jeffs might be related to the FLDS leader.