hadith
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Peace Brother,
First concerning the verse ...
GOD did say that he will guard it, but can u tell how.
Do u think that there were angels with arms standing at the top of very scripture so they would kill anybody
who approaches it. I mean how do u think GOD will guard the book ... ain't through drawing the right circumstances
so that the koran wouldn't be threatened like the bible was. The point is in this world GOD act through human.
In the early battles, were there angels with swords fighting with submitters... definitly not.
What happened is that angels strenghened submitters' faith and weakened the "kuffar"
If u have a child would u leave him out there alone saying that GOD will take care of him ...
U won't, not because GOD won't take care of him, but simply because he will do that through u.
One of the conditions of guarding the koran is that the prophet and submitters at that time were given victory so they won't
be weak like the case of Jesus and early christians. Another one is that the prophet would be himself aware, and after he died
GOD preserved the book through submitters themselves.Definite, God has his own mechanism He is USING to protect the Al-Quran ... This has not been done only through the strenghening of the muslim ummah as you mentioned, but also through immediate writing of the verses as they were revealed and their memorization... With so many copies and memorizers around... It will be a lost battle for anyone who try to forge the Quran.... You should also know that the Bible was not written at the time of Jesus... And was written only after his death by his followers.... The fact that Al-Quran was written immediately after revelation, was one of the main things which made the difference from the previous Scriptures.... As for the Victory of the Submitters, they were more due because they were following the Quran and submitted themselves totally to the Will of Allah... If we submitted ourselves the same way, we will get the same victory because Allah promised the Mu'mineen victory and this promise will remain valid till Allah decide otherwise...
As for the help of the angels in the battles... we definitely do not know how their support were... Maybe they could have come down armed and assisted the mu'mineen in the battle... we do not really know.. we just believe what Allah told us... We do not need these details... Whether they came in person, or provided other kind of support.. the fact is, they did 'support' the mu'mineen and thats all...
As for the child being left alone thinking God will feed and raise him... Well, that claim is very illogical, Allah has already inspired the Parents special feelings so that they would take good care of their children... except a few who have gone astray and do not fear God...
Can u assure that every single man will understand any guide he finds in his hands.
Anyway needing it is not the reason from my thread, the reason is something else and I pointed to it before.Yes.. I believe firmly that every single man will be able to understand the guide if he take the TIME to STUDY it and do not look for shortcuts to the Quran from other books... Well, Allah will also question you about your intellectual abilities, we are not born equal with same level of IQ... Allah is the best of Judges and will guide everyone accordingly.... However, you can also look for a teacher who will teach you the Quran and what it contains... Without adding or removing from it... I think there is no escape route for this issue...
The truth is hadith has been a tool that promoted sectarism ... but it's not the main reason
The main one is simply human nature, hatred, zeal for the power that made the muslims make wars among
themselves and after that divide into sects ... hadiths came long time after that to become a wicked tool to be used
in order that every sect shows he is right, especially that it's very easy to distort and to forge.Since you already agree with the harm that Hadith have been doing to the Ummah... then why defend it? Its is still the same wicked tool and its being aggressively used by Ulemas to keep their grasp on the masses.... Can these sects do the same with the Quran? Definitely, their claim will collapse one after the other against Al-Quran... Lies cannot stand against Al-Quran... You agree that its easy to distort and forge... So why trying to defend it...
You should ask yourself.. For a minute, consider yourself a kaafir and try to think how you can harm Islam... Try to find strategies... Definitely, you can include all other strategies except forging Al-Quran... right? Because definitely, forging Al-Quran will be impossible and will expose the lies almost immediately... So tell me, who guarantees the Quran for you? and who guarantees the Hadiths?? Anyone who wants to hard Islam can do it through hadith and their behaviour...
That's the problem, the koran is being often forgotten ... totally "d'accord"
I am glad that you are on the same wavelength here... Now ask yourself the next question? Why has the Quran been forgotten? When you ask someone to read the Quran... He will usually tell you that he do not has wudhu, does not know tajweed or things like this... Who imposed these limits? Who made people stay away from the Quran and keep the Quran as a holy book on the shelf? ...
The koran should be the judge ... but the truth is only people themselves r the ones who can wipe sectarism
cose if they don't seek unity themselves, they already believe in the Book but they will never wake up.Allah's commands are clear
And hold fast, all together, by the rope which God (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude God's favour on you; for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by His Grace, ye became brethren; and ye were on the brink of the pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus doth God make His Signs clear to you That ye may be guided.
However, to hope tight to the rope of Allah, you have to hold tight to the Book of Allah and follow its rules.... Among the many rules are not to use conjecture, stay away from the doubtful, no laws beside the Law of Allah as in the Quran etc...
Accepting part of the Book and rejecting part of it... Let's see what Allah says
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Then is it only a part of the Book that ye believe in, and do ye reject the rest? but what is the reward for those among you who behave like this but disgrace in this life?This verse is very important... We cannot accept part of the book and reject part of it.. Else Allah is promising us with disgrace in this life.... So can we hold tight with the rope of Allah while accepting only part of the book and reject part of it?
Peace,
I did say "u might need" ....
My point is -I'm sure that u will agree with me- it's not that bad to go back to some "logical" hadiths
is case u find it hard to make up ur mind concerning a matter.
But of course not immediatly, one should seek the Book first and IF -and I emphasize on the "if"-
he thinks that he needs to do more research he can search in hadiths (as long as he never say/think/believe its from God... )All praise belong to God... Since I reverted to true Islam, some months ago... I am finding all my answers in the Quran itself... Believe me brother... Amazing and wonderful journey... I am struggling with my family/relatives day and night and Alhamdoulillah it is just making me stronger and firmer in my belief in Al-Quran... Believe me, armed with Al-Quran... No one can stand against you... Because a single point from the Quran is stronger than most of their points... So far, all my discussions with friends/family/relatives has been victory for me if I may Allow myself to say... The most logical facts and answers are in the Quran.... You want to follow the words of the Prophet, follow the Quran because in the Quran, Allah has recorded our Prophet's speeched verbatim... as it came out from his mouth... And these speeches do not need to be verified, they have no sanad.... They have been recorded by the ALmighty Himself...
Hope I have transmitted as clearly as possible..
Allah knows best...
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Peace WayFinder,
Welcome to the forum welcome
I have become a big fan of yours. ) God has given you good insight and understanding.
Keep up the good work and may God bless you and reward you for your efforts.
May God guide us all to the truth and the straight path.
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Peace brother,
Peace Brother,
Allah has already inspired the Parents special feelings so that they would take good care of their children...In the same way HE inspired his messenger how to take care of his message.
Since you already agree with the harm that Hadith have been doing to the Ummah... then why defend it? Its is still the same wicked tool and its being aggressively used by Ulemas to keep their grasp on the masses.... Can these sects do the same with the Quran? Definitely, their claim will collapse one after the other against Al-Quran... Lies cannot stand against Al-Quran... You agree that its easy to distort and forge... So why trying to defend it... wha
I'm not defending it ... u haven't been following me.
The only difference between u and me is that I find it my responsibility to try to fix as much as I can ...
And I believe this is a duty for every koran aloner ... It's good to argue, and it's not bad to compromise (and please do not
compare our case to the prophet's, he was dealing with stone worshippers and we r dealing with submitters who believe in the one GOD),
and I'm seeking what could be the best behavior with others.I am glad that you are on the same wavelength here... Now ask yourself the next question? Why has the Quran been forgotten? When you ask someone to read the Quran... He will usually tell you that he do not has wudhu, does not know tajweed or things like this... Who imposed these limits? Who made people stay away from the Quran and keep the Quran as a holy book on the shelf? ...
In fact maybe not lot of people read the koran ... Myself I used to read it but I haven't lately ...
But I believe it's only lazyness, I mean I don't know where u live, but I have lived in the middle east for 20
years and I was born there, and I know all the habits of muslims (sunni and shia), and i don't think that
anybody try to find excuses for not reading the koran ... it's only lazyness ... and it's not a big deal ..
and the problem is not in reading the koran or not (although it is very important in order to understand it),
the problem is not following it.Accepting part of the Book and rejecting part of it...
So can we hold tight with the rope of Allah while accepting only part of the book and reject part of it?Nobody rejects any part of the Book, otherwise he won't be a muslim.
The truth is that some people simply ignore the Book, i mean they don't know what's in it
and they blindly follow what others (like imams) tell them about it.All praise belong to God... Since I reverted to true Islam, some months ago... I am finding all my answers in the Quran itself... Believe me brother... Amazing and wonderful journey... I am struggling with my family/relatives day and night and Alhamdoulillah it is just making me stronger and firmer in my belief in Al-Quran... Believe me, armed with Al-Quran... No one can stand against you... Because a single point from the Quran is stronger than most of their points... So far, all my discussions with friends/family/relatives has been victory for me if I may Allow myself to say... The most logical facts and answers are in the Quran.... You want to follow the words of the Prophet, follow the Quran because in the Quran, Allah has recorded our Prophet's speeched verbatim... as it came out from his mouth... And these speeches do not need to be verified, they have no sanad.... They have been recorded by the ALmighty Himself...
Hope I have transmitted as clearly as possible..
Allah knows best...
Of course ur discussions will be victorious, but I think that u'r wise enough not to feel victorious ...
U should note that -and urself u always say it- GOD know best, and we might know nothing, so we should always
be openminded on everything, cose even if we live hundreds of years and we spend it searching for the truth,
the truth will always be fuzzy, except for one truth which is .... GOD.
I always feel happy when I hear somebody finding answers, cose i lived exactly the same experience, and i know
how it feels to see things clearer. So good luck, and may GOD guide us all to the straight path. -
Peace WayFinder,
Welcome to the forum welcome
I have become a big fan of yours. ) God has given you good insight and understanding.
Keep up the good work and may God bless you and reward you for your efforts.
May God guide us all to the truth and the straight path.
Peace brother
Thank you very much for your support.... Infact going through the Quran is a very enlightening experience... In the past, I was using all other books except the Quran... they were supposed to be shortcuts to the Quran but infact, they were just opinion of the authors according to their understanding and doctrine.... However, I thank Allah for the change in my views and now I feel really happy to read and study the Quran... Its a wonderful experience and I hope many muslims are enjoying the same as many people are returning back to the source which is Al-Quran...
God bless...
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Peace Brother....
In the same way HE inspired his messenger how to take care of his message.
Can you be more clear on this brother? What do you mean by taking care of his message? I already outlined in my previous post one of the main tool that the Messenger used to secure the message is to get them written down... Do you imply that the prophet got some extra commands from Allah which is not in the Quran and is found in other books? Please clarify on this...
I'm not defending it ... u haven't been following me.
The only difference between u and me is that I find it my responsibility to try to fix as much as I can ...
And I believe this is a duty for every koran aloner ... It's good to argue, and it's not bad to compromise (and please do not
compare our case to the prophet's, he was dealing with stone worshippers and we r dealing with submitters who believe in the one GOD),
and I'm seeking what could be the best behavior with others.As for my responsibility... Its like this...
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And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is).The truth is already established for me and I have no doubt on it... So my duty towards all people is in the above verse... I cannot try to FIX falsehood... Falsehood should be wiped off and replaced with truth...There is no negotiation on the truth...
2174 Those who conceal Allah's revelations in the Book, and purchase for them a miserable profit,- they swallow into themselves naught but Fire; Allah will not address them on the Day of Resurrection. Nor purify them Grievous will be their penalty.
I am not after a miserable profit Alhamdoulillah...
About not comparing to the prophet...
How can we not take the prophet example into consideration when we are commanded to take him as the best example
3321 Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.
Be it stone worshipper, peer worshipper, animal worshipper or whatever else... Shirk is shirk... Taking other laws and claiming it is from Allah is BIG shirk... example of this is the stoning of adulterers... Also, who said that the Meccans were worshipping idols... According to historians, they were worshipping Allah but these idols represented Allah's son and daughters like Manat,Lat and Uzza.... So they were thinking that passing through them, their prayers will reach Allah, these idols were mere intermediaries... they knew that the only one God was Allah but were worshipping others together with Him...
Not all idolators were worshipping stones and statues... Take the Christians for example, they were worshipping Jesus instead of Allah... They do not worship the statue of Jesus, but they worship Jesus himself who they claim is alive in Heaven and is the God....
The messenger's message were to all these people, the pure stone/sun/fire worshipper as well as those who worship Allah as well as others beside him...
To sum this up... An idolator is an idolator.. There is no level 1 idolator or level 2 idolator... No unnecessary argument on this... Allah's law is clear... No shirk with him...
In fact maybe not lot of people read the koran ... Myself I used to read it but I haven't lately ...
But I believe it's only lazyness, I mean I don't know where u live, but I have lived in the middle east for 20
years and I was born there, and I know all the habits of muslims (sunni and shia), and i don't think that
anybody try to find excuses for not reading the koran ... it's only lazyness ... and it's not a big deal ..
and the problem is not in reading the koran or not (although it is very important in order to understand it),
the problem is not following it.I agree its PARTLY laziness, but not only due to it... There are other factors also... Among the main ones, there are already too many textbooks which are intended to explain the Quran in your own language... SO people do no want to go through the process of learning Arabic to read and study the Quran... There are too many shortcuts to the Quran... THe imams,mullahs,muftis,Ulemas etc are the main ones... However most of these people have not studied the Quran themselves and have fallen into the trap of following hadiths and false interpretations... So at the end, you eventually end up with a Islam that has nothing to do with Al-Quran... Rules not taken from it etc... Check these verse regarding scholars and learnt men...
0934
O you who believe, many religious leaders and preachers take the people's money illicitly, and repel from the path of GOD. Those who hoard the gold and silver, and do not spend them in the cause of GOD, promise them a painful retribution.Ask yourself... What the majority of muslims are doing today? Is not is the same as the verse above.... People following their leaders rather than the Guide sent by Allah...
Here also in my country, we have shias and everything.. you will find all the muslim sects in most countries.. even in UK or america... So this is not an issue... I have seen grave worshippers, peer worshippers and so on... So I know what am talking about...
Nobody rejects any part of the Book, otherwise he won't be a muslim.
The truth is that some people simply ignore the Book, i mean they don't know what's in it
and they blindly follow what others (like imams) tell them about it.I totally agree with you... they cannot be called a muslim, but how many like this are claiming to be muslims?? Do you saying that when they will be judged by Allah, they will get out easily by saying that they do not know what is in the Quran?? Should we be blind followers of religious leaders? Most of these religious leaders are abusing the trust of the people and using them for their own benefit... They can only remain in their position by upholding the use of Hadith... Because preaching Quran alone will not allow them to do what they are currently doing...
Of course ur discussions will be victorious, but I think that u'r wise enough not to feel victorious ...
U should note that -and urself u always say it- GOD know best, and we might know nothing, so we should always
be openminded on everything, cose even if we live hundreds of years and we spend it searching for the truth,
the truth will always be fuzzy, except for one truth which is .... GOD.
I always feel happy when I hear somebody finding answers, cose i lived exactly the same experience, and i know
how it feels to see things clearer. So good luck, and may GOD guide us all to the straight path.Yes you are right... I am not claiming that I am a victor everywhere, but just mentioned it here to make you aware of my feeling and the power of Allah's words.... I have been able to follow only the Quran due to my open mindedness.. you have no idea of the past sects i belonged to... sunnis,tawheedi,salafis...and finally back to the source...
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Peace Brother....
Can you be more clear on this brother? What do you mean by taking care of his message? I already outlined in my previous post one of the main tool that the Messenger used to secure the message is to get them written down... Do you imply that the prophet got some extra commands from Allah which is not in the Quran and is found in other books? Please clarify on this...
There r no commands in this matter ... and it's not mentioned in any book ...
it's simply inspiration that he would take care of his message just like a mother takes care of her son ...
it's a natural behavior ... and there r no specific matters, it's the general behavior of the prophet that
allows me to say that he was taking care of his message ... an example is the previous hadith that ironically
another brother used to prove that hadiths shouldn't be written which is
Do not write down anything of me except the Quran. Whoever writes other than that should delete it" (Ahmed, Vol. 1, page 171.....also Sahih Moslim )
This hadith which I consider wise and might be authentic could be a proof of the caring that the prophet showed
for his message.As for my responsibility... Its like this...
242
And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is).
The truth is already established for me and I have no doubt on it... So my duty towards all people is in the above verse... I cannot try to FIX falsehood... Falsehood should be wiped off and replaced with truth...There is no negotiation on the truth...
2174 Those who conceal Allah's revelations in the Book, and purchase for them a miserable profit,- they swallow into themselves naught but Fire; Allah will not address them on the Day of Resurrection. Nor purify them Grievous will be their penalty.
I am not after a miserable profit Alhamdoulillah...well I am not covering the truth ... and i'm not trying to fix falsehood, I'm simply trying to unite brother, and
I assure to u that I'm doing it by the good ways not by disobeying GOD, cose falsehood to u might not be the same for me.
And afterall if i'm after miserable profit I will be judged for that, and if I'm not, those who argue with me so that my efforts
would be in vain they will be judged for that too.
I'm glad that u think truth is established to u, but with all my due respect the one who claims to know the truth is the biggest
ignorant ever, and the one who doesn't have doubts doesn't know how to search the truth.About not comparing to the prophet...
How can we not take the prophet example into consideration when we are commanded to take him as the best example
3321 Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.I never said do not conduct like the prophet, I said that our circumstances r not the same,u can't compare the situations we r in to his,
again we r dealing with submitters and he was dealing with "kuffar"Be it stone worshipper, peer worshipper, animal worshipper or whatever else... Shirk is shirk... Taking other laws and claiming it is from Allah is BIG shirk... example of this is the stoning of adulterers... Also, who said that the Meccans were worshipping idols... According to historians, they were worshipping Allah but these idols represented Allah's son and daughters like Manat,Lat and Uzza.... So they were thinking that passing through them, their prayers will reach Allah, these idols were mere intermediaries... they knew that the only one God was Allah but were worshipping others together with Him...
Not all idolators were worshipping stones and statues... Take the Christians for example, they were worshipping Jesus instead of Allah... They do not worship the statue of Jesus, but they worship Jesus himself who they claim is alive in Heaven and is the God....
The messenger's message were to all these people, the pure stone/sun/fire worshipper as well as those who worship Allah as well as others beside him...
To sum this up... An idolator is an idolator.. There is no level 1 idolator or level 2 idolator... No unnecessary argument on this... Allah's law is clear... No shirk with him...All muslims worship GOD brother, they might be astrayed in some matters like dividing into sects and following laws
that does not exist in the koran, but they still believe in the one GOD.... they don't worship stone nor peer nor animal nor Jesus
nor Mohammad nor Ali, they r worshipping GOD.I totally agree with you... they cannot be called a muslim, but how many like this are claiming to be muslims??
No body is claiming to be muslims because they all r muslims ... A muslim is a man who believes in GOD and in the message of
Mohammad (the koran), and as they all do that and do not reject any part of the Book then they r muslims.I c we r not going anywhere in this, so this is gonna be my last reply to u with all my due respect ...
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Peace Brother
There r no commands in this matter ... and it's not mentioned in any book ...
it's simply inspiration that he would take care of his message just like a mother takes care of her son ...
it's a natural behavior ... and there r no specific matters, it's the general behavior of the prophet that
allows me to say that he was taking care of his message ... an example is the previous hadith that ironically
another brother used to prove that hadiths shouldn't be written which is
Do not write down anything of me except the Quran. Whoever writes other than that should delete it" (Ahmed, Vol. 1, page 171.....also Sahih Moslim )
This hadith which I consider wise and might be authentic could be a proof of the caring that the prophet showed
for his message.If you want to take this hadith like an authentic one, then no problem for me... Its up to you... However, I already gave the verses in the previous posts... Allah is the Guardian of the Quran and the messenger followed Allah's commands and the Quran... So he already knew that the Quran will be preserved by Allah... It would not have been a problem for him to separate the scribes into 2 groups.. one for writing the Quran and the other for writing his hadith... Labelling the 2 books correctly... Since he did not do it... then it means that the only Guide he left was Al-Quran... So why brickwall on hadiths.... i really dont understand....
well I am not covering the truth ... and i'm not trying to fix falsehood, I'm simply trying to unite brother, and
I assure to u that I'm doing it by the good ways not by disobeying GOD, cose falsehood to u might not be the same for me.
And afterall if i'm after miserable profit I will be judged for that, and if I'm not, those who argue with me so that my efforts
would be in vain they will be judged for that too.
I'm glad that u think truth is established to u, but with all my due respect the one who claims to know the truth is the biggest
ignorant ever, and the one who doesn't have doubts doesn't know how to search the truth.You are not trying to fix falsehood but you are trying to find a common ground between falsehood and truth.... Allah made it clear, there is no common ground on this... Though, I am definitely not against dialogue and understanding to get people back to Al-Quran because Allah command us to use good words while preaching his book...
As for falsehood, I did not mean falsehood relative to you and me... but falsehood relative to the Quran and how Allah describe falsehood....
As for the truth, I have no doubt in Al Quran and for me its the truth... Allah told me in this book there is no doubts... So why should I be having doubts... I was having doubts before... when I was using other books beside Al Quran but not now alhamdoulillah... So if you still have doubt in the truth... You need to pursue your research and study...
However, pointing at me and calling me the biggest ignorant because I am following Allah's words is just weird.... But maybe this hadith is authentic too
'Islam started as something strange and will become something strange again at the end of times...' DI never said do not conduct like the prophet, I said that our circumstances r not the same,u can't compare the situations we r in to his,
again we r dealing with submitters and he was dealing with "kuffar"How can you call people submitters? Do you have your own rules for that? Because if you use Allah's criteria for defining a submitter... You will see that the majority is not in the fold of submitters as Allah define them...
As for the prophet... he was no dealing with only Kuffar... but there were the Ahl ul Kitab also on the scene...
All muslims worship GOD brother, they might be astrayed in some matters like dividing into sects and following laws
that does not exist in the koran, but they still believe in the one GOD.... they don't worship stone nor peer nor animal nor Jesus
nor Mohammad nor Ali, they r worshipping GOD.If in your version of Islam, people like this are called submitters... then Allah will be witness between me and you.... Maybe you need to assess your position again...
No body is claiming to be muslims because they all r muslims ... A muslim is a man who believes in GOD and in the message of
Mohammad (the koran), and as they all do that and do not reject any part of the Book then they r muslims.I c we r not going anywhere in this, so this is gonna be my last reply to u with all my due respect ...
Yes... you have that right... But most have rejected part of the book... Anyways, Allah is Ahkamoul Haakimeen... So he will be the one to judge...
I c we r not going anywhere in this, so this is gonna be my last reply to u with all my due respect ...
It has been a nice discussion brother.... Again, nothing personal... My one and only advice, read and STUDY the quran....
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Peace
like those which goal is to complete the koran and explain it, and to make the Islamic laws
(Shari'a) more detailed ?I think Wakas had a good answer which you may not have understood, and if you did understand it, you disagreed with it.
If they agree with the quran than it is clear the quran is the tool to determine the truthfulness of this or that hadeeth. I think if something is not in disagreement with the spirit of the quran it is okay to follow, but then you expand on this notion of the quran being the furqan/criterion between what is right and what is wrong by talking about the details. The quran is the sufficient guide for salvation and I know those who seek the details tend not to agree with the standard . Keep in mind the humbleness of the powers . So, keeping in line with your question, how do you now intend to verify the "details" which you derive from other ahadeeth if they cannot be supported with the quran? Can you want to use the quran to verify the truth of some ahadeeth and then not use it to verify the truth of other ahadeeth? Or is your argument that since the ahadeeth that exapand upon and detail the quran are extensions of quranic criteria, practice, law, and principle, there is no need to have the quran as a verifier in this instance?
Joe
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Peace
So, keeping in line with your question, how do you now intend to verify the "details" which you derive from other ahadeeth if they cannot be supported with the quran? Can you want to use the quran to verify the truth of some ahadeeth and then not use it to verify the truth of other ahadeeth?Peace joe,
I agree with u that there r ahadeeth that r supported with the quran ...
Concerning those that r in direct relation with the Book and discussing subjects presented in the quran,
I think u agree with me that they can be verified simply by not being in contradiction with the Book ...
Now concerning other ones that r not supported with the quran, that the quran does not mention
then I believe we can verify them by comparing to other subjects -of course only if those ahadeeth were
wisdom quotes and definitly not source of laws. Let me give u an example ...
Some of those ahadeeth's subjects that does not exist in the quran may cause ''fitna'' and dividing between submitters,
so comparing to the order of GOD to avoid fitna and dividing then those ahadeeth r "batel" fake unauthentic ...
And afterall i think we have enough wisdom to be able to verify every single hadeeth ...Or is your argument that since the ahadeeth that expand upon and detail the quran are extensions of quranic criteria, practice, law, and principle, there is no need to have the quran as a verifier in this instance?
Joe
There is always need of the quran to verify every single detail of life ...
And of course authentic ahadeeth r not extensions of quranic laws, cose they r human
and quranic laws r divine ... simply those ahadeeth r wisdom quotes of the prophet that
can be very profitable in life ...
And all over the quran, not a single verse prohibit profiting from the prophet's wisdom and
any other wisdom as long as it is delt with as human wisdom...Ali
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And we should also consider that even if GOD tell us not to believe in a speech other than the BOOK,
but still, believing in such hadiths -the authentic ones-but still,but still what, there is no but still if god says we should not then WE SHOULD NOT.
there are many ayat that proove to us that allahs 7adeeth is the only 7adeeth we should follow, end of storyan example is the previous hadith that ironically
another brother used to prove that hadiths SHOULDN'T BE written which is
Do not write down anything of me except the Quran. Whoever writes other than that should delete it" (Ahmed, Vol. 1, page 171.....also Sahih Moslim )
This hadith which I consider wise and might be authentic could be a proof of the caring that the prophet showed
for his message.simple question, the fact that this very hadeeth IS written and DOES exist, doesnt that prove that they didnt even bother to obey the messenger himself...........
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Peace bro wisdom
I thought you were not coming back to the thread but thanks for coming... This is a good discussion if you focus on the thread positively... Do not feel guilty of anything... You brought an issue and we discuss it in a friendly manner... Then we can have all the time to focus of each points of the discussion and try to put an order in it... So welcome back...
You are saying that nowhere in the quran its forbidden to profit from the wisdom of the prophet ... I would like to get more information on this wisdom... can you give some examples please...
Thanks
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Peace wayfinder,
I actually said it was gonna be my last reply to u cose
we r going nowhere in the discussion, not the absolute last reply ....
I replied to Joe cose I found it's an important post ...
with all my due respectAli
Ok brother...
Got the point loud and clear... So, from now on, this thread will be read only for me giveup
Keep posting brother...
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Ok brother...
Got the point loud and clear... So, from now on, this thread will be read only for me giveup
Keep posting brother...
Who said that ??
Am i the only one posting here?? u can reply to others ..
and the reason behind what i said is that i don't have time for long posts and replies
i'm a student and i have lot of work to do ...
Simply u will never convince me and vice versa ...
so there is no need to continue the discussion
with all my due respectAli