What is the difference between "Nissa, Amraat and Azwaj"

bkanwar2

Brother MTR, as I have repeatdly said that the language of AlKitab is a dead language. The issue is about revival of language leading to revival of Quran. Hence to accept one person or one or two books as authority will be a fatal mistake. I know you are honest which I DO NOT doubt at all. Please get other referances that I have cited or are cited from time to time. Please compare and contrast with open mind. This will make these interaction learning experience. It is not issue of who knows more. The issue is how can we learn more and quickly to help sickened humanity and be part of unveiling the deivine message. Love to you and all in the noble cause.

Badar

Muslimtruthrevealed

This is what I call waste of time, and not listening. Was this the only word in my post that does not exist in the quraan? What about " rajil" and " rajla"? What was my post about? Citing words that were mentioned in the quraan?

I am not threatening you. I am reminding you of the forum rules and the implications of not respecting them.

Samia, Where does Allah, subhana wata ala use these terms " rajilati " " rajil" and " rajla"?

siki

Samia, you definitely need to do something about MTR.

I opened this thread with lot of zeal to study these terms, but, frankly telling you , I dont feel like openning this thread, and probably this must be the case with so many others.

siki

siki

Almost all the ayahs containing the word Azwaj could be interpreted both ways, except the two below, 2-232 clearly indicates that azwajulkum can be used for husbands as well.

2-232 And when you have divorced women(nissa) and they have ended -- their term (of waiting), then do not prevent them from marrying their (azwajokum) husbands when they agree among themselves in a lawful manner; with this is admonished he among you who believes in Allah and the last day, this is more profitable and purer for you; and Allah knows while you do not know

where as 4-12 tells us that it cannot be, it is only used for wives,

4-12 And you shall have half of what your wives(azwajukum) leave if they have no child, but if they have a child, then you shall have a fourth of what they leave after (payment of) any bequest they may
have bequeathed or a debt; and they shall have the fourth of what you leave if you have no child, but if you have a child then they shall have the eighth of what you leave after (payment of) a bequest you may have bequeathed or a debt; and if a man or a woman leaves property to be inherited by neither parents nor offspring, and he (or she) has a brother or a sister, then each of them two shall have the sixth, but if they are more than that, they shall be sharers in the third after (payment of) any bequest that may have been bequeathed or a debt that does not harm (others); this is an ordinance from Allah and Allah is Knowing, Forbearing.

There seems to be a big contradiction here, I think the answer lies in the correct interpretion of 4-12.

siki

Muslimtruthrevealed

Assalaam Alaikum

@siki It seems your translation and interpretation is incorrect...

When you divorce women, and they fulfil the term of their ('Iddat), do not prevent them (women) from marrying, if they mutually agree on equitable terms. This instruction is for all amongst you, who believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is (the course Making for) most virtue and purity amongst you and Allah knows, and you know not.

Wa itha tallaqtumu alnnisaa fabalaghna ajalahunna fala taAAduloohunna an yankihna azwajahunna itha taradaw baynahum bialmaAAroofi thalika yooAAathu bihi man kana minkum yuminu biAllahi waalyawmi alakhiri thalikum azka lakum waatharu waAllahu yaAAlamu waantum la taAAlamoona

azwajokum is NOT in 2.232
This translation is incorrect and illogical "then do not prevent them from marrying their (azwajokum) husbands " Besides being incorrect, If they are divorced they are no longer their husbands.

As it relates to Sura 4.12

Again another mistranslation and misinterpretation

And you shall have half of what your wives(azwajukum) leave

azwajukum means mates or spouses, with the masculine plural pronoun 'kum' its instructing and referring to both male and female

In what your mates leave, your share is a half, if they leave no child; but if they leave a child, you get a fourth; after payment of legacies and debts. In what you leave, their share is a fourth, if you leave no child; but if you leave a child, they get an eighth; after payment of legacies and debts. If the man or woman whose inheritance is in question, has left neither ascendants nor descendants, but has left a brother or a sister, each one of the two gets a sixth; but if more than two, they share in a third; after payment of legacies and debts; so that no loss is caused (to any one). Thus is it ordained by Allah; and Allah is All-knowing, Most Forbearing.

Wa lakum nisfu ma taraka azwajukum in lam yakun lahunna waladun fain kana lahunna waladun falakumu alrrubuAAu mimma tarakna min baAAdi wasiyyatin yooseena biha aw daynin walahunna alrrubuAAu mimma taraktum in lam yakun lakum waladun fain kana lakum waladun falahunna alththumunu mimma taraktum min baAAdi wasiyyatin toosoona biha aw daynin wain kana rajulun yoorathu kalalatan awi imraatun walahu akhun aw okhtun falikulli wahidin minhuma alssudusu fain kanoo akthara min thalika fahum shurakao fee alththuluthi min baAAdi wasiyyatin yoosa biha aw daynin ghayra mudarrin wasiyyatan mina Allahi waAllahu AAaleemun haleemun

Al_Araf

salam. i was able to read the thread earlier, unfortunately i was not able to participate due to a computer issue.
this allowed me some time to study the issue.

will all posters in this thread examine the following.

there are three verses in the quran that relate to the topic in question. the verses are named appropriately.
sura al insan no. 76, sura al nas no. 114, sura al nisa no. 4. there is an obvious symmetry in the language.
al insan approximates to mankind, al nas approximates to the men, and al nisa approximates to the women.

the next source of information is the opening verse of sura al nisa.

o men, reverence your lord who made you from one kind, and created from this kind your pair, and scattered
from them many husbands and women, and reverence allah who bore them in the womb, for allah over you
watches 41 al nisa

this verse raises interesting issues. adam's pair isha is called a zawj, lut and nuh's "wives" are called amrat
"wards" 6610 and muhammad's "wives" are called zawajak "pairs" 661, and last 2232 and 2236 refer to
talaq "divorce" of nisa "women"

the implication is there are three categories of women. the first category is nisa, the second is the category
is zawj, and the third category is amrat.

this raises the issue, as to whether a nisa, not a zawj or amrat, is an approximate equivalent of a "wife" the
verse 421 implies that consumation is equivalent to a nikah. therefore, a nisa with whom consumation has
taken place, by the act of consumation becomes a zawj or amrat. there is support in the scriptures for this
analysis.

one of the conclusions is, that if a nas consumates with a nisa, by the act of consumation making her a
zawj or amrat, the duties of the rijal, zawj, and amrat are imposed, as stated in the quran.

allah is the one who sees,

siki

Al Arf, salam

That is interesting, what do you think is the differnce between a zoaj, and amrat?

siki

Al_Araf

salam siki. i think the best way to answer your question is to give you a series of examples.

an unmaried daughter would be bint, nisa, and amrat ; wife would be nisa and zawj, some wives are nisa, zawj, and amrat
a married daughter would be bint and nisa, and zawj and amrat
some widows are nisa; other widows are nisa and amrat

from what i read of the quran, there are some wives who are simply zawj, there are other wives who are zawj and amrat.

allah is the truth.

siki

Salam

A pair bonded by a certain contract known as Nikah , are given the title as Zoaj, because i consistenly found Zoaj attached with the term Nikah, that gives me a clue that there are pairs made through some other/different kind of bonds, which are not as good as contract of nikah, I am not sure yet as to, are those women known as amrat?

siki

Al_Araf

salam siki. i have not see any verse in the quran that says nikah is a contract. for this reason i avoid making such a claim.

a contract is an exchange, performance in exchange for consideration. prostitution is a contract, an exchange of money for services. prostitution is in some jusrisdictions and illegal contract, and a legal contract in other jurisdictions. this is another reason why in civil law, we do not say marriage is a contract, because then it becomes another form of prostitution.

that gives me a clue that there are pairs made through some other/different kind of bonds, which are not as good as contract of nikah, I am not sure yet as to, are those women known as amrat?

while you have posed that question, let me repharase the question.

are there other relationships aside from the nikah?

and how can you take it when you have gone into each other and they have taken from you a strong trust 421

421 makes no mention of nikah, or zawj, or amrat. 421 says going into each other automatically creates a strong mithaq. this means that there is a category of those whom a man has gone into, and not had a nikah, who by their action of going into a woman, create a strong mithaq. i find this consistent with 2232 and 2236, because those verses say the talaq of nisa, not the talaq of zawj, and not the talaq of amrat. this means there are non-zawj, non-amrat nisa to whom exists a mithaq, who may be given a talaq.

i am going to use current english usage terms here to convey the intent of the verses. what the quran is saying, is that a wife, mistress, and girlfriend, are all under the trust of the husband, and in order to end the trust the husband may terminate the trust. if you examine the usage of the quran, you will see, the requirement of obediance is not just imposed on wives, it is imposed on women, which would be consistent with the above understanding.

allah is the one who teaches.

unknownuser

salam siki. i have not see any verse in the quran that says nikah is a contract. for this reason i avoid making such a claim.

a contract is an exchange, performance in exchange for consideration. prostitution is a contract, an exchange of money for services. prostitution is in some jusrisdictions and illegal contract, and a legal contract in other jurisdictions. this is another reason why in civil law, we do not say marriage is a contract, because then it becomes another form of prostitution.

What? A Nikah is indeed a contract! with an exchange of saduqat and verbal consent with rights and obligations for both parties. Whether this is in written form or not the fact is inescapable it is a contract.

Definition of contract (according to Merrium Webster's dictionary http//www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/contract)

1 a a binding agreement between two or more persons or parties ; especially one legally enforceable
b a business arrangement for the supply of goods or services at a fixed price <make parts on contract>
c the act of marriage or an agreement to marry

while you have posed that question, let me repharase the question.

are there other relationships aside from the nikah?

and how can you take it when you have gone into each other and they have taken from you a strong trust 421

421 makes no mention of nikah, or zawj, or amrat.

No, nikah, zawj, nor amrat are mentioned there. but if you read AnNisa from the beginning and 421 in context, you would understand what is being referred to. We do not read the Quran in isolated sections we read it as a whole.

421 says going into each other automatically creates a strong mithaq.

421

Wakayfa ta/khuthoonahu waqad afda baAAdukum ila baAAdin waakhathna minkum meethaqan ghaleethan

Literal
And how do you take it and some of you to some had revealed and they (F) took from you a strong promise/covenant?

Do not confuse the words of the Quran. Notice the word wa/and? First there is no mention of sex. Second sex does not create a strong covenant.

Logic dictates that if sexual relations created a strong covenant there would be no need to make rules against indecencies and sexual transgressions in the Quran. In fact if this absurdity were the case sexual intercourse would be encouraged without limitation.

This, of course, is not the case. Allah is and always has been very firm about where the boundaries are.

this means that there is a category of those whom a man has gone into, and not had a nikah, who by their action of going into a woman, create a strong mithaq.

As I just pointed out, this is incorrect.

i find this consistent with 2232 and 2236, because those verses say the talaq of nisa, not the talaq of zawj, and not the talaq of amrat. this means there are non-zawj, non-amrat nisa to whom exists a mithaq, who may be given a talaq.

This is an illogical reasoning. brickwall

i am going to use current english usage terms here to convey the intent of the verses. what the quran is saying, is that a wife, mistress, and girlfriend, are all under the trust of the husband, and in order to end the trust the husband may terminate the trust.

Wrong. The Quran does not support sexual relationships outside of Marriage.
Second, the Quran does not say that only a man can terminate any relationship. Women have the same right.

if you examine the usage of the quran, you will see, the requirement of obediance is not just imposed on wives, it is imposed on women, which would be consistent with the above understanding.

Absolute nonsense.
Al Araf's understanding is turning marriage into the only legalized form of slavery. Worse yet, he is stating that women should obey men.
Under this understanding, the man is the woman's illah, for she obey's him and not Allah.
One cannot have two masters. Either a person is obedient to Allah or his creation.
Being obedient to Allah's creation is what shaitan encourages not Allah and certainly not a believer.

434 is often misunderstood.
The obedience is obedience to Allah NOT men.
The word rajul and nisa are not indicative of men and women.

oathoo biAllahi min Ash-Shaitan Ar-Rajeem

Salam,
Arnab

Muslimtruthrevealed

Assalaam Alaikum

Its amazing how you individuals just 'make this stuff up', unbelievable!

There is no blame on you if you make an offer of betrothal / khitbati an-nisai or hold it in your hearts. Allah knows that you cherish them in your hearts. But do not make a secret contract with them except in terms Honourable / taqooloo qawlan maAAroofan , nor resolve on the tie of marriage / an-nikahi till the term prescribed is fulfilled. And know that Allah Knoweth what is in your hearts, and take heed of Him; and know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Forbearing.

maAAroofan known or recognized thing which is universally accepted, practiced and implemented; fairness, kindness, justice;custom (Sunna) of a Society;Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 369 (arafa) ; Lanes Lexicon Volume 5 page 2014-2015

Marriage is a contract, legal and binding
Nikah means marriage
Zawjin means wife
You must engage women according to the 'Sunna' established by Allah; maAAroofan
No fornicating, girlfriends, prostitutes, mistresses, etc.

Keep pious and chaste, single/unmatched adults until they reach the age of maturity for marriage / Waibtaloo alyatama hatta itha balaghoo An-Nikaha

To the individual who made the immature, uninformed statement "this means that there is a category of those whom a man has gone into, and not had a nikah" and the same individual makes this idiotic statement "the quran is saying, is that a wife, mistress, and girlfriend, are all under the trust of the husband, and in order to end the trust the husband may terminate the trust"

The ayahs are referring to one's Wife NOT girlfriend, prostitute, mistress or other!

And if you intend to change the place of a wife / zawjin with another wife / zawjin and you have given heaps to one of them so you do not take any thing from that, will you take it with false accusation and with a clear sin?

And how could you take it after you have given yourselves to one another / Afda , and they have taken from you a solemn covenant/mithaaqan ghaleethan?

Wa kayfa takhuthoonahu waqad afda baAAdukum ila baAAdin waakhathna minkum meethaqan ghaleethan

Afda (imperfect verb, Verb Form IV= NO FORCE , NO EMPHASIS) means living with each other in private in terms of husband and wife. Ibn Sidah suggests the word does NOT imply sexual intercourse.

meethaqan (noun, intensive = increased emphasis) bond, treaty, covenant; Root word Wathaqa mening to bind, place trust, rely upon;Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 601 (wathaqa)

Ghaleethan (accusative) harsh, hard, fixed, rigid, firm, solemn;Root word Ghalaza meaning to be big, thick, bulky, coarse, hard, severe, vehement, rigid, stern;Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 407-408 (ghalatha)

zawjin (tanween-kesra, FEMININE, indefinite) meaning wife
Vocabulary of the Holy Quran page 246

Muslimtruthrevealed

Assalaam Alaikum

If your going to name yourself after a very prominent Sura in the Quran at least become familiar with that Sura!

This is the reference in the Quran where Allah has defined the process of Marriage and its intention....

It is He Who created you from a single person, and made his mate of like nature, in order that he might (in dwell with her . When they are united, she bears a light burden and carries it about / zawjaha liyaskuna ilayha falamma taghashshaha hamalat hamlan khafeefan famarrat bihi falamma athqalat. When she grows heavy, THEY BOTH PRAY TO ALLAH THEIR LORD, (SAYING). "IF YOU GIVEST US A GOODLY CHILD, WE VOW WE SHALL (EVER) BE GRATEFUL."

Zawjaha (feminine 3rd person, singular) A pair or two MARRIED together
Li yaskuna that they may reside in comfort, quiet, repose, dwell, lodge, subside

Falamma (precedes a perfect verb) meaning not yet, WHEN, AFTER THAT

Taghashshaha (perfect verb, 3rd person, masculine, singular Verb Form V) SLEEP WITH A WOMAN, He covers; Root word Ghasiya to cover, conceal, come upon, to have a INTIMATE or CARNAL connection with

Then....

Hamalat (perfect 3rd person, FEMININE, singular) she bore a child in her womb, pregnant

READ YOUR QURAN!!!!

unknownuser

Assalaam Alaikum

Its amazing how you individuals just 'make this stuff up', unbelievable!

There is no blame on you if you make an offer of betrothal / khitbati an-nisai or hold it in your hearts. Allah knows that you cherish them in your hearts. But do not make a secret contract with them except in terms Honourable / taqooloo qawlan maAAroofan , nor resolve on the tie of marriage / an-nikahi till the term prescribed is fulfilled. And know that Allah Knoweth what is in your hearts, and take heed of Him; and know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Forbearing.

maAAroofan known or recognized thing which is universally accepted, practiced and implemented; fairness, kindness, justice;custom (Sunna) of a Society;Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 369 (arafa) ; Lanes Lexicon Volume 5 page 2014-2015

Marriage is a contract, legal and binding
Nikah means marriage
Zawjin means wife
You must engage women according to the 'Sunna' established by Allah; maAAroofan
No fornicating, girlfriends, prostitutes, mistresses, etc.