What is the difference between "Nissa, Amraat and Azwaj"
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Samia, it's NOT suffixed or affixed to any word. Subject Pronoun means 'isolated', that's clear.
Confirmation that Hunna is a Subject in the following words in Sura An-Nisa 434
Reference ?A Dictionary of the Grammatical Analysis of the Holy Quran? by Tantawi Sura An-Nisa 434 page 105
Would you please answer the other question bout the conjugation of the verb "adribu"?
Also, give example of "hunna" when it is suffixed ( ل.
Please copy and paste from the reference you are giving. Show that the "Grammatical Analysis of the Holy Qur'an" by Tantawi refers specifically to this case; or at least what case it was talking about.Just because the in is not physically connected to the word before it, this does not mean it is not suffixed to it. The absence of the physial connection (as in )is simply because the letters preceding (ن in the examples you gave are letters that do not connect to the letter that follows ( )
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Would you please answer the other question bout the conjugation of the verb "adribu"?
Also, give example of "hunna" when it is suffixed ( ل.
Please copy and paste from the reference you are giving. Show that the "Grammatical Analysis of the Holy Qur'an" by Tantawi refers specifically to this case; or at least what case it was talking about.Just because the in is not physically connected to the word before it, this does not mean it is not suffixed to it. The absence of the physial connection (as in )is simply because the letters preceding (ن in the examples you gave are letters that do not connect to the letter that follows ( )
Assalaam Alaikum @Samia
Again, as I stated earlier, Im sorry, Im not going to do homework for you. I have presented substantial evidence to confirm and support the position and reflection of 'Hunna' as a Subject Pronoun, 'isolated' pronoun in Sura An-Nisa 434.
You are free to accept the evidence or bring evidence to suggest Hunna is NOT an 'isolated' pronoun, or just reject it all together.
I will accept whatever position you choose.
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Assalaam Alaikum @Samia
Again, as I stated earlier, Im sorry, Im not going to do homework for you. I have presented substantial evidence to confirm and support the position and reflection of 'Hunna' as a Subject Pronoun, 'isolated' pronoun in Sura An-Nisa 434.
You are free to accept the evidence or bring evidence to suggest Hunna is NOT an 'isolated' pronoun, or just reject it all together.
I will accept whatever position you choose.
First of all, you have to understand that I am not seeking explanation of grmmar from you. I am trying to verify the authenticity of your reference, because I cannot imagine that a book on grammatical anlysis of the quran would discuss whether "hunna" in "adribuhunna" is subject or object.
What languge is your reference? Is it in English or in Arabic? If it's in Arabic, please paste your evidence in Arabic.
Who is the author? Is it Tantawy or he is just prefacing it? -
salam fahad. the word you are referring to ajr, means reward.
Wa salaam.
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Ajr is better understood as wage, especially when linked with a tijaarat and amwaal. I also showed you how nikah is linked with ajar and amwaal which proves that it is indeed a transaction. You did not tell me what you think about that.
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Also look at 28/25-26. A crude translation
28/25 Therefore one of the two women came to him, walking shyly. She said, `My father invites you li yaJZiYa ka AJRa/to reward you a wage (for)what you watered for us?.
Here we can see that JZY is already used for ?reward? before mentioning AJR. Therefore AJR cannot mean reward.
28/26 One of the two women said, `O my father, asTaJiR hu/hire him; for the best man that asTaJaRta/you can hire is the one who is strong and trustworthy.'
Again, as in 35/29-30, the ajar in 28/25 is linked with the tijaarat in 28/26. The woman asked her father to hire him i.e. to transact with him, to engage him on wages. This gives us the meaning of ajar.
if allah rewards a momin with jannat this is not a wage.
Why not? A momin does not serve Allah for free. He expects to be rewarded with a wage in exchange of his services.
i see where the confusion is coming from, some translations are claiming ajr means wages. no akhi this is where arabic and english depart ways. english has vague usages for the term reward which is causing the confusion.
Bro, I did not rely on translations for this, I confirmed the Quranic usage. Verse 28/25 makes ?reward? distinct from ?wage?.
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http//img301.imageshack.us/img301/5464/grammaticalbooknr0.th.jpg
Grammatical Analysis of the Holy Quran (Arabic) by Grand Mufti of Egypt, Prof. Dr. Muhammed Sayed Tantawi Reviewed by Mohammed Fahim Abou 'Oubayya
http//www.alhikmabookstore.com/index.php?option=com_sobi2&sobi2Task=sobi2Details&catid=0&sobi2Id=472&Itemid=53
@Samia, You are free to contact the publishers of the Grammatical Analysis of the Holy Quran by Dr. Tantawi and express your concern regarding the Subject Pronoun analysis and reference of the following words in Sura An-Nisa 434
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Dear Fahad
28-25,26 is an interesting find, hence ajar as wage makes Nikah a very interesting contract.
So, we hire women for services, like sex initially, then for child bearing and for managing house hold and children etc,so basically the house/home belongs to the men and his children, and these women if don't behave or demonstrate ill conduct, they are moved out, or exchanged.
siki
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Dear Fahad
28-25,26 is an interesting find, hence ajar as wage makes Nikah a very interesting contract.
So, we hire women for services, like sex initially, then for child bearing and for managing house hold and children etc,so basically the house/home belongs to the men and his children,
Dear Siki,
Women and children both inherit from the man, you know, not just the children.
and these women if don't behave or demonstrate ill conduct, they are moved out, or exchanged.
Let's be careful about that, unless they come with fahisha mubayyina(4/19, 65/1).
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salam fahad. with regards to the admonishment. you are mistaken when you claim
you can "punish" other people's women as well for disobeying you
i did not punish for disobeying, that is your mistake. i admonished for ill conduct, completely different issue.
I did not say you punished, I said what makes you think you CAN.
read the verse 434 again. it says al rajal qawamun min al nisaa. it does not say al rajal qawamun min nisaakum.
allah is the teacher.
Read carefully, it is talking about women one shares his beds with.
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http//img301.imageshack.us/img301/5464/grammaticalbooknr0.th.jpg
Grammatical Analysis of the Holy Quran (Arabic) by Grand Mufti of Egypt, Prof. Dr. Muhammed Sayed Tantawi Reviewed by Mohammed Fahim Abou 'Oubayya
http//www.alhikmabookstore.com/index.php?option=com_sobi2&sobi2Task=sobi2Details&catid=0&sobi2Id=472&Itemid=53
The title of the book is "A Dictionary Of Grammatical Analysis Of The Holy Qur-'an" (you have omitted "A Dictionary Of ".
And Muhammad Sayed Tantawi has only written the preface.Anyway, could you post a scan of the page of the book that backs your claim ?
It would be very helpful.Peace
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hail
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http//img301.imageshack.us/img301/5464/grammaticalbooknr0.th.jpg http//img99.imageshack.us/img99/7767/sura434grammaticalanalyhf6.th.jpg
Grammatical Analysis of the Holy Quran (Arabic) by Grand Mufti of Egypt, Prof. Dr. Muhammed Sayed Tantawi Reviewed by Mohammed Fahim Abou 'Oubayya
http//www.alhikmabookstore.com/index.php?option=com_sobi2&sobi2Task=sobi2Details&catid=0&sobi2Id=472&Itemid=53
@Samia & JM, Both of you are free to contact the publishers of the Grammatical Analysis of the Holy Quran and Dr. Tantawi and Sheikh Abou'Oubayya at Al-Azhar University to express your concern regarding the Subject Pronoun analysis and reference of the following words in Sura An-Nisa 434
Their contact information is in the preface.
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Dear Siki,
Women and children both inherit from the man, you know, not just the children.
Oh yes, one eighth, if i am not wrong.
Let's be careful about that, unless they come with fahisha mubayyina(4/19, 65/1).
) Don't worry, I shall be extremely compassionate .
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http//img301.imageshack.us/img301/5464/grammaticalbooknr0.th.jpg http//img99.imageshack.us/img99/7767/sura434grammaticalanalyhf6.th.jpg
Grammatical Analysis of the Holy Quran (Arabic) by Grand Mufti of Egypt, Prof. Dr. Muhammed Sayed Tantawi Reviewed by Mohammed Fahim Abou 'Oubayya
http//www.alhikmabookstore.com/index.php?option=com_sobi2&sobi2Task=sobi2Details&catid=0&sobi2Id=472&Itemid=53
@Samia & JM, Both of you are free to contact the publishers of the Grammatical Analysis of the Holy Quran and Dr. Tantawi and Sheikh Abou'Oubayya at Al-Azhar University to express your concern regarding the Subject Pronoun analysis and reference of the following words in Sura An-Nisa 434
Their contact information is in the preface.
You are so manipulative! Why do you highlight parts of the page just to push your agenda? The higlighted parts in the upper line do not correspond to the highlighted parts in the lower line, except for the first (ن You highlight (hunna) and then in the lower line you highlight ( fa3il subject) ignoring altogether the (و That precedes the word ( /subject).
The following is an explanation to the forum members, but as for you, you will have to answer to this manipulation and why you are highlighting, deliberately, parts of the page.
Look under the first in (nushuuzahunna) what does it say? Do you understand what means? (second part of a possessive construct)
Look under the second in This word is divided into 4 parts
We read under it
We read under it , which means (imperatif in the jussif by deletion of the nuun)
(و The wau is the subject/agent/doer
We read . which stands for direct objectThen there is which stands for (assumed predicate this is the grammaticl position for the whole word/sentence )
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@Samia & JM, Both of you are free to contact the publishers of the Grammatical Analysis of the Holy Quran and Dr. Tantawi and Sheikh Abou'Oubayya at Al-Azhar University to express your concern regarding the Subject Pronoun analysis and reference of the following words in Sura An-Nisa 434
Their contact information is in the preface.
Moreover, there's nothing on this page about Subject Pronouns, and there couldn't be, since these pronouns are either mudaf ilaihi (second part of idafa construction) or direct object, according to the page you pasted. The book speaks in abbreviations, so the word (pronoun) is already abbreviated by a big dot between brackets. How did it write (Subject Pronoun)?
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Samia, Good try.....your becoming predictable, when confronted with something you don't know or understand, you feel compelled to 'assassinate' the messenger. Its fine Samia, its common human behavior, when the truth is being conveyed.
But your initial 'issue' was......
"How on earth can "hunna" be a "mubtada' initial noun" when it's suffixed to a verb? And you changed your mind about it being the subject/doer?
4- Frankly speaking, I was never taught this, nor have I read such an expression in grammarIm asking you as a moderator, to provide evidence supporting your bizarre grammatical analysis"
Well, Now you have been taught that Hunna is Feminine Plural , Subject Pronoun
Moving on....
It obvious someone gave you all of this minutia....isolated facts that are considered separate (irrelevant) from the point
Look under the first in (nushuuzahunna) what does it say? Do you understand what means? (second part of a possessive construct)
Look under the second in This word is divided into 4 parts
We read der it
We read under it , which means (imeratif in the jussif by deletion of the nuun)
(و The wau is the subject/agent/doer
We read . which stands for direct objectThen there is which stands for (assumed predicate this is the grammaticl position for the whole word/sentence )
@Samia, you did NOT even take the time to read and study what they gave you!
part (beginning) of the Idafa Construct, Possessive Case (Mudaf and Mudaf Ilayh)
Now back to the point...
@Samia, My question to you, are you in agreement that Hunna is a Subject Pronoun, 'isolated' pronoun?
I await your answer to this question
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Samia, Good try.....your becoming predictable, when confronted with something you don't know or understand, you feel compelled to 'assassinate' the messenger.
Yes, when the mesenger is a fake . I have no problem with the message, (the page you copied).
Well, Now you have been taught that Hunna is Feminine Plural , Subject Pronoun
What nonesense! If anyone understood this gibberish, please explain
Moving on....
It obvious someone gave you all of this minutia....isolated facts that are considered separate (irrelevant) from the point
Look under the first in (nushuuzahunna) what does it say? Do you understand what means? (second part of a possessive construct)
Look under the second in This word is divided into 4 parts
We read der it
We read under it , which means (imeratif in the jussif by deletion of the nuun)
(و The wau is the subject/agent/doer
We read . which stands for direct objectThen there is which stands for (assumed predicate this is the grammaticl position for the whole word/sentence )
Very sad state of ignorance! You do not know where I got this "minutia"? It's all written on the page you scanned . Truely some people are ( like a donkey carrying scriptures)
@Samia, My question to you, are you in agreement that Hunna is a Subject Pronoun, 'isolated' pronoun?
Now do not deviate from the issue. Do you see (hunna ) used as an isolated pronoun in this verse in question?
My question to you as a moderator
- Do you accept that your grammatical analysis of this verse (just for now) is completely wrong?
- Do you admit that you highlighted the wrong correspondng analysis to falsely prove yourself right, even if this results in misleading other members?
This is not an invitation to you to enter into a grammatical or any discussion with me. I am done with discussing with you on this thread or any other thread.
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Assalaam Alaikum Bismi'lahi Ar Rahman Ar Raheem
@Samia, I could careless whether you are the moderator or Queen of All Moderators, you have a problem with admitting that you are wrong.
The truth (is) from ALLAH alone; so be not of those who doubt.
If any one disputes in this matter with you, after knowledge has come to you, say. ? come! Let us gather together,-- our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves. then let us earnestly pray, and CALL THE CURSE OF ALLAH ON THOSE WHO LIE!?
This is the true account. There is no god except Allah; and Allah-He is indeed the Exalted in Power, the Wise.
Your argument now Samia is with the Quran NOT me.
Now, instead of slandering me, bring some evidence to disprove what I have presented.
If you don't....
And if they turn away - behold, Allah has full knowledge of the spreaders of corruption.
Fain tawallaw fainna Allaha AAaleemun bialmufsideena
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Salaam Muslimtruthrevealed,
In these three expressions, any one with a very small knowledge of Arabic language can easily understand that the subject (the doer of the action) is ?antum? ?you? represented by the letter ?? ?wau?.
I have no background in Arabic Grammar but I can easily see that.
You either, now nothing in Arabic language and Arabic grammar or you are twisting the meanings.
You are 100% wrong and Samia is 100% correct. Please you have to apologize to all for your mistake.
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http//img301.imageshack.us/img301/5464/grammaticalbooknr0.th.jpg http//img99.imageshack.us/img99/7767/sura434grammaticalanalyhf6.th.jpg
Excuse me, your kidding right?
Its Hunna NOT 'antum'. I dont know where you see 'antum', because its NOT there.
Im not sure why the ?? ?wau? is giving you folks so much grief, its merely a marker denoting the end of the intransitive verb and the pointer to the subject, Hunna . Just look at the other references to in the scan.
When separate object pronouns (i.e. Hunna ) serve as direct object pronouns they must come BEFORE the verb. Hunna is NOT a direct object, thus it is NOT in the Accusative Case with these verbs
Hunna is NOT a direct object because it comes AFTER the verb I?DRIBU , which is Intransitive and ONLY requires a Subject, Hunna
Again, Active Verb, the action is directed outward from the subject (Hunna ), which means that the subject (Hunna ) performs the action but does not receive it.
Thus, Hunna is the Subject and Agent of the verb I?DRIBU
I believe the other verbs associated with the subject Hunna are Intransitive also
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Peace all --
Browse Root and choose best meaning without contradicting rest of Quran.
http//www.openburhan.net/ob.php?root=%D8%B6%D8%B1%D8%A8%0D
Waidriboohunna
And leave them (f) alone/be; believers do not hit their women and mother of their children whom they are entrusted to protect.
3918
Those who hear/listen (to) the word/opinion and belief so they follow its best, those are, those whom God guided them, and those, they are of the pure minds/hearts.